Political Crossfire Forums :: View topic - US soldier waterboards daughter over alphabet

wgabrie · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:41 am

Okay, so the guy waterboarded his 4 year old daughter because she couldn't recite the alphabet. The waterboarding was chosen because the daughter was afraid of water which makes the trauma even worse.

US soldier gives four year old daughter waterboarding over alphabet

Quote:

A soldier subjected his four-year-old daughter to waterboard-style torture when she failed to recite her alphabet, it has been claimed.

Just the actions of one sick man? No. This also brings up 10 years of bad policy and misinformation.

1. Wars of choice. Apparently war can make you sick and twisted. And we haven't learned this yet? There have been other instances of troops opening fire in public, killing US civilians.

2. Lack of mental health services for troops. I remember reading reports back during Bush's administration that many troops were denied psychiatric services and were essentially let loose in society without being checked out. I don't recall hearing that this situation was ever fixed under Obama.

3. Many people, including most of the vocal component of the GOP, declare that waterboarding isn't torture and it is a respectable practice that should be used on terrorists instead of the legal system. Desensitizing our troops? And, they have forgotten the past when we have executed people for performing waterboarding.

4. The public outcry against Obama wanting to put troops on government watch lists as potential criminals or terrorists.

Yes, this waterboarding man is going to jail for a long time, but there are other men out there, US Soldiers, that are ticking time bombs.

Fishstyx · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:18 pm

Thats a pretty big jump in assumption on your part.

I'd say the actions of a pretty sick man.

For your claim to be plausible, there would have to be statistical trend. So either provide or this is simply a rushed opinion base on your personal feelings.

Revenant · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:22 pm

She clearly should've studied harder.

wgabrie · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:42 pm

Fishstyx wrote:

Thats a pretty big jump in assumption on your part.

I'd say the actions of a pretty sick man.

For your claim to be plausible, there would have to be statistical trend. So either provide or this is simply a rushed opinion base on your personal feelings.

Okay, I'll see what I can come up with. In the mean time here is a news story from 2007 which is similar to other news stories I have heard:

War Stresses Linked to Soldiers' Crimes

wgabrie · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:05 pm

I am still trying to find official statistics, but here is another article from 2009.

Veterans Who Commit Crimes: What Do We Owe Them?

Quote:

Several studies conclude that between 30% to 40% of the approximately 1.6 million vets of Iraq and Afghanistan will "face serious mental-health injuries" like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and problems from traumatic brain injuries. Experts in the field report both those conditions are linked to anti-social and criminal behavior.
[...]
To be clear, I'm not referring to the highly publicized cases where a returning soldier has committed murder. Those cases have caused many to think, "Well, you train these young men to kill, they come home and kill." But there is no research, let me repeat that, there is no research, to indicate vets commit violent crimes more often than civilians. In fact, if you extrapolate government statistics for murders committed by men ages 18 to 24 it's the civilian who is more likely to kill someone, not the vet. I'm referring here to those anti-social, behavioral problems experts report that so many of our returning soldiers suffer with in silence. Problems with substance abuse, paranoia, flashbacks and bursts of unexplained temper, problems so debilitating the vet takes out their frustrations on loved ones or commits suicide.

Judge Robert Russell in Buffalo, New York noticed the trend last year. Disturbed after seeing some 300 vets come through his court, he started what's believed to be the nation's very first "Veteran's Court" for those having problems re-adjusting to civilian life. The charges against these defendants range from public drunkenness and assault, driving while intoxicated, drug related offenses, disturbing the peace, theft, domestic violence and other emotion driven violations.

wgabrie · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:13 pm

Okay, a semi-official report about Fort Carson in Colorado -- that returning Iraq troops commit crimes.

Crime Rate of Veterans in Colo. Unit Cited

Quote:

Soldiers returning from Iraq after serving with a Fort Carson, Colo., combat brigade have exhibited an exceptionally high rate of criminal behavior in their home towns, carrying out a string of killings and other offenses that the ex-soldiers attribute to lax discipline and episodes of indiscriminate killing during their grueling deployment, according to a six-month investigation by the Colorado Springs Gazette newspaper.

thundertaker · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:05 pm

This dad was probably a sick f**k long before he became a soldier. Most people who have served in the armed forces and gone to war don't go home and waterboard their 4-year-old daughters....

XiangYu · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:12 pm

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

Sol invictus · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:22 pm

I wonder if some of the neo-cons on PCF who've said waterboarding is no different than 'going for a swim' will condemn this? After all, taking your 4 yr old to the local pool isn't torture.

eynon · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:58 pm

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

right, because child abuse didn't happen when we were in our prime.

eynon · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:02 pm

Thunders pretty much called it. War F**K** with people, but a lot of these guys are f****d up to begin with. Suggested reading:

Fishstyx · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:04 pm

wgabrie wrote:

Okay, a semi-official report about Fort Carson in Colorado -- that returning Iraq troops commit crimes.

Crime Rate of Veterans in Colo. Unit Cited

Quote:

Soldiers returning from Iraq after serving with a Fort Carson, Colo., combat brigade have exhibited an exceptionally high rate of criminal behavior in their home towns, carrying out a string of killings and other offenses that the ex-soldiers attribute to lax discipline and episodes of indiscriminate killing during their grueling deployment, according to a six-month investigation by the Colorado Springs Gazette newspaper.

OK, you've shown that returning soldiers should seek mental health treatment or counseling, which I don't disagree with.

You have yet to make any real connection to the cause being enhanced interrogation techniques.

Revenant · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:21 pm

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

lol wut?

wgabrie · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:47 pm

Fishstyx wrote:

wgabrie wrote:

Okay, a semi-official report about Fort Carson in Colorado -- that returning Iraq troops commit crimes.

Crime Rate of Veterans in Colo. Unit Cited

Quote:

Soldiers returning from Iraq after serving with a Fort Carson, Colo., combat brigade have exhibited an exceptionally high rate of criminal behavior in their home towns, carrying out a string of killings and other offenses that the ex-soldiers attribute to lax discipline and episodes of indiscriminate killing during their grueling deployment, according to a six-month investigation by the Colorado Springs Gazette newspaper.

OK, you've shown that returning soldiers should seek mental health treatment or counseling, which I don't disagree with.

You have yet to make any real connection to the cause being enhanced interrogation techniques.

I'm opening with that after WW2 investigations into the behavior of NAZI torturers came to the conclusion that normal people were, over time, desensitized to the suffering and pain of others.

Now I seem to recall a similar psychiatric experiment with a prop electrocution chair and actor which reported test subjects ability and willingness to inflict inflict greater shocks over time until they were willing to administer a lethal dose. I don't know the exact details of it. I will try to look it up when I get back.

Now the connection is the CIA claims waterboarding isn't torture, and the GOP voices say waterboarding isn't torture. Its a form of desensitization. These claims are reducing the negative reaction of the torture and perhaps putting ideas into people's heads.

When we add the additional factor of an unstable mind returning from war I can see there may be a problem there.

Ronin Tetsuro · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Can't wait to see how FOX Lulz defends this waterboarding incident.

Spider · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:13 pm

Revenant wrote:

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

lol wut?

I know, right?

There's some joke about Chinese state schools here, somewhere....

lilwolf · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:36 pm

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

ahhh.... and what has happened to yours....

PoS · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:44 am

lilwolf wrote:

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

ahhh.... and what has happened to yours....

Got milk?

FstarCstar · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:54 am

XiangYu wrote:

Either way, a product of the decaying American society.

There has been much worst than this and society was just fine.

FstarCstar · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:55 am

Ronin Tetsuro wrote:

Can't wait to see how FOX Lulz defends this waterboarding incident.

Nobody is going to defend this, pull your head out of your ass.