Political Crossfire Forums

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

Let's get things straight the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois are not Separatists, they are Liberationists!! We are an occupied people that fell under british rule in 1759. Seventeen small years later King Louis XVI of France went to great lengths to regain Canada.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw030376))

George Washington to Continental Congress, September 21, 1775

Camp at cambridge, September 21, 1775

Quote: I am now to inform the Hon: Congress, that encouraged by the repeated Declarations of the Canadians and Indians and urged by their requests; I have detached Colonel Arnold with 1000 men to penetrate into Canada by Way of Kennebeck River, and if possible to make himself Master of Quebec

Source: George Washington In the American Revolution (1775 - 1783) - James Thomas Flexner

Quote: Lafayette had already taken steps to force Washington's hand. Without notifying his friend and commander, the Marquis had departed from New England to Philidelphia carrying a scheme for presentation to Congress. The idea was that twelve thousand Americans should in various expeditions capture "Detroit, Niagara, St. John's, Montreal, etc." while a French fleet sailed up the St. Lawrence and (reversing the triumph of General Wolfe that had ended French Control of Canada) took the fortress city of Quebec. Lafayette wished to be empowered to make the necessary arrangements in France.
Congress was enthralled with the prospect. They ordered Lafayette to ride to Washington's headquarters on his way to the shipping, and ordered Washington to add his suggestions to the sheaf of papers the Marquis would carry to Versailles.
....When Washington received a Letter from Congress placing further pressure on him to support Lafayette's scheme for a joint Franco-American conquest of Canada, he decided that he would have to go to the capital "for a few days" He set out on December 21, 1778.
....However, once Washington had journeyed to Philidelphia to deal with Lafayette's Canadian scheme, Congress asked him to stay so that he could discuss with them the innumerable problems of the army.

So here you have it, irrefutable proof that France and the United States was trying to Liberate us from British Rule. The United States was unable to gain Quebec on their own accord so France Stepped in with the Marquise Lafayette. Two hundred years later, all you can do is lie, threaten, and verbally abuse the Quebecois. Hmmm...what kind of dysfunctional relationship is that?? After all this abuse, you refuse to respect us, but insist that we should be happy with our place in Canada and take the cultural immolation being inflicted on us, yeah right!! After the American Revolution King Louis XVI was subsequently executed and France and Europe was thrown into a 40 year war at the hands of Napoleon. Any thought of regaining the Quebecois was lost with the execution of King Louis XVI. France and Europe continued to struggle up until 2003 when the Newly established Democratic European Union Came on Line. Because Europe has regained its bearings and power, it is now able to right the wrongs of the past. As I said, the Quebecois (the Real Canada) is unfinished business!!! Much to your angst, Europe will be on hand to liberate the Quebecois from British Rule once and for all. So go ahead and tell the Quebecois your lies of how we were Conquered and abondoned, so therefore we should embrace the cultural immolation that you the Pretend Canadians insist on imposing on Quebec. For 200 years we have been an occupied people made to feel inferior to our British counterparts. The tides have changed. Go ahead abuse and threaten Quebec some more. Go ahead the world is watching and taking notes.

So what is it going to be Sovereignty by Association or Liberation by Europe???

:-D

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

A new dynamic has entered the Foray. Governments are timeless. Treaties are timeless, International Boundary claims is testament to that. That said the Continental Congress, the Congress of the United States is bound!!! to let France finish what it started. Through Various forces the Marquise Lafayette was unable to send in a force Strong enough to regain Quebec. However, If France is up to it, France is legally able to mobilize an alliance (likely Spain and Germany for starters) to extract Quebec from Canada. It is Frances legal right under International Law and prior arrangements made with the United States Congress to come in and Extract Quebec From Canada. Failure by the United States not to allow France to finish what the Marquise Lafayette of France started (Liberating Quebec from British Rule) is cause enough for compensation to be sought from the fall out that ensued after the American Revolution. This could get messy. Just like Natives have supposed land claims in Canada that are valid, France's claim to finish what the Marquis Lafayette started is no less valid.

When is France is going to build the coalition of the willing and Liberate Quebec from British Rule once and for all??

So what is it going to be?? Sovereignty by Association or Liberation by France and the coalition of the willing?

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg002378)):

Quote: NOVEMBER 27. 1775 (Thomas Jefferson)

subject. Proper persons will certainly and presently be appointed, under proper regulations, to determine on sea Captures. I heartily congratulate you on the surrender of St. Johns. That of Montreal must, 1 think, quickly follow, because it is quite defenceless and because the far greater part of the Canadians are surely on our side . If Colo. Arnold meets with success at Quebec, we shall be in a fine posture to receive our enemies next spring. I have been strongly inclined to think that the design of this last reenforcement to Boston, is intended for something decisive this fall. Their credit, their necessities, and many other considerations seem to render an attempt on yr. lines probable. I make no doubt but the most effectual guard will be taken to render this attempt fatal to its Authors. It is impossible that vice can so triumph over virtue, as that the Slaves of Tyranny should succeed against the brave and generous Assertors of Liberty, and the just rights of humanity.

What is happening here??? The United States is fighting Canada but the Canadians are on the Americans Side?!?!?

Who were the Americans fighting?????

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg002391)):

Quote: NOVEMBER 29, 1775 (Thomas Jefferson)

Canada and to the Indians, the views and objects of the United Colonies. Success, equal to the justice of the cause, has followed this undertaking. With indefatigable zeal 3000 Men crossed Lake Champlain and laid siege to Fort St. Johns, which place, as the key to Canada, had been made very strong by Govr. Carlton, and garrisoned with 500 regular Troops and 100 Canadians. During this siege, a detachment from the Army pierced further into the Country, invested and took Fort Chamble (between St. Johns & Montreal) that was garrison'd by about 80 Regulars. Gen. Carleton having by this time collected 800 Men, marched to the relief of St. Johns, when 600 of the Am. Troops met and defeated him.

Check it out, the Canadians were fighting alongside our American counterparts against our occupiers the British or British Subjects. One in the same to me.

Whatever happened with those Canadians???

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg002422)):

Quote: DECEMBER 5, 1775 (Thomas Jefferson)

Great Britain that we would fight, and were not a Rope of Sand, therefore An Army was formed, Expedition against Canada &c Success Attend every Where. Said The Savages who were to be lett loose to Murder our helpless wives dr Children were our friends. The Canadians fought in our Cause , and Canada, from thence Armys were to over run us, is Conquered in as few Months

Should the United States forget the Acts of the true Canadians???? Should the United States Continued to allow us to be ill treated by our occupiers?

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg002164)):

Quote: Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 2 September 1775 - December 1775 Rhode Island Delegates to Nicholas Cooke

OCTOBER 9, 1775

By Letters from Genl. Schuyler of 19th Sepr. We are informed that the American Troops had surrounded St. Johns & cut off the Enemies Communication with Montreal; before this Time We hope they are in Possession of both for as our People are joined by the Canadians they will have nobody to contend with but the few Regulars in that Country; by these happy Acquisitions to which We hope Quebec will be soon added We shall altogether disappoint the most favourite Plan of the Ministry. We are, with great Regard Sir your most obedient hble Servants Step Hopkins
Sam. Ward

[P.S.] By other Letters by express from St. John's of the 24 Sept. we are informed our Troops were Masters of Chamblee began to play on St. John's and in two Days expected to be in possession of it. Many Canadians having then joined them and our Success seemed to be certain in that Quarter.(2) S Hopkins

Who's the enemy??? Where are they now??

8)

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: _747 wrote: They indicated Prussian Support. Prussia is now Germany isn't it??

Prussia was one of the German states, but they detested France and they were an ally of Britian during the 7 years war, so I doubt they actively assisted the colonists. Von Steuben was a Prussian, but he went of his own volition, not that of his government.
It was Holland, France and Spain who declared war on Britain during the American revolution. In actual fact, Britain enlisted German mercenaries to fight for them during the American revolution, and the use of these 'foreigners' caused further alienation with the colonists......

http://www.rare-maps.com/MAPS_PIC/MIT-1872-PRUSSIA.JPG

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dc002168)):

Quote:
The Revolutionary Diplomatic Correspondence of the United States, Volume 2 Franklin to John Winthrop

Paris, May 1, 1777

In a letter which the King of Prussia has written to one of his literary correspondents in Paris, this passage occurs: 'I send you my secret against hydrophobia; it is certain that it has failed in none of the trials I have given it here. It should be administered to the British Parliament, which acts like an infuriated fool in the American business. It is now about to embroil itself again with Russia. I have the abiding hope that you will don your cuirass against this God dem; that you will aid the Colonies to become free, and retake Canada, which they so wrongfully took from you. It is the wish of my heart, and it should be also the dictate of policy .'"

There you have it Thundertake the King of Prussia expressing an opinion France should retake Canada. The Nazi Germany was the part of Germany helping the British against the American cause. I say this because Nazi Germany did away with Prussia in the 1900's. If I were British I would want to keep that hush hush :wink:

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

By the looks of this map, West Germany was in fact Prussia. East Germany was Nazi Germany.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dc002294)):

The Revolutionary Diplomatic Correspondence of the United States, Volume 2
A. Lee to the Committee of Foreign Affairs

Paris, January 5, 1778

Quote: The British court are greatly alarmed about Canada, for the defense of which they are informed eight thousand men, at least, are necessary. I hardly think it will be possible for them to procure anything like that number. The refusal of a passage by the King of Prussia will embarrass and impede their German supplies as stipulated, and I have good intelligence that it was done with the approbation of the emperor, and that he will use his influence to prevent any future supplies

The British fighting against the American Cause with the Germans that eventually became Nazi Germany. :shock:

thundertaker · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject:

Er, what exactly does the American War of Independence have to do with the Nazis?

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: Er, what exactly does the American War of Independence have to do with the Nazis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

Quote: Prussia as a state was de facto abolished by the Nazis in 1934,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians

Quote: British Governor Charles Lawrence decided to deport the Acadians from Nova Scotia without giving his colleagues any notice. His army destroyed around 6000 Acadian houses and dispersed the Acadians to the 13 colonies from Massachusetts to Georgia

Because the Germans that faught with British against American Independence eventually became the Nazis; is it possible Hitler got his inpiration from the British :shock:

thundertaker · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject:

What a load of bollocks. :ws:

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: What a load of bollocks. :ws: :rotf: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is a logical connection between the two. The bad germans were the British Allies against American Independence and the Good Germans were for American Independece. It just so happen these Bad Nazi Germans may have picked up few things from the English. Obviously their enthusiasm towards these "things" went over the edge. :oops!:

thundertaker · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:58 pm Post subject:

I didn't really feel the need to elaborate on my previous response, because I thought the 150+ year gap between Revolutionary America and Nazi Germany meant that there is no connection whatsoever, obviously you do need it pointing out...:rolls:
As for 'bad nazi Germans' picking things up from the 'english', there were atrocities and honourable men on both sides, so there was no black and white 'good and evil' side to that conflict.....

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: I didn't really feel the need to elaborate on my previous response, because I thought the 150+ year gap between Revolutionary America and Nazi Germany meant that there is no connection whatsoever, obviously you do need it pointing out...:rolls:
As for 'bad nazi Germans' picking things up from the 'english', there were atrocities and honourable men on both sides, so there was no black and white 'good and evil' side to that conflict.....

Well, you can take that muddied water way of looking at things but I am not so inclined to be so accomodating. Need we go into mindset of the Nazi Germans??? I was merely pointing out that the Nazi Germans carried out atrocites similar in scope to what the English did, only that the Nazi's went one step further and gassed and burned them all. It just so happened these Nazi's were the English's Allies at one time. Are these acts by the Nazis coincidence?, uninspired acts by the Nazis? Or did they get their inspiration from the English? After all these Nazis were the English's buddies at one time or another. :roll:

Because you are from England let me test the fallacy of your thinking. Because my ancestors were from France and we established a colony called Canada in 1604 and we became the Canadians that are well documented in the Congressional Record of the United States. Because the strength was not there to free Canada from british Rule do you think it is right that your British Subjects are trying to assume our Canadian Identity??

In the sands of history this is a relatively new phenomena.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/legacy/chap-5.html#chap5-2

They passed a law in 1956 making the British Subjects of Canada - Canadians. Homework should have been done or an agreement made with the Quebecois (Canadians) if this was acceptable. I know of no agreement. We Canadians fell back under british occupation, british rule after the American war of Independence, we are a prisoner nation of history. Quebec (Canada) still exists but now under briton and tory rule. A majority trying to dictate to a minority the Quebecois. These imposters are masquerading about the world in our name - "Canadians." You see something wrong with that??

Not to worry I am taking steps to annex our identity back that they fraudalently assumed.

So from your perspective should these britons and tories assume our Canadian Identity? Is this common practice? Did you britons call yourselve guyanese when you occupied guyana? Did you britons call yourself jamaican when you occupied Jamaica? Or are the britons in Canada an anonomaly possibly suffering from eating to much mad cow??

I am curious to know if this a standard british practice of assuming the identity of the people you occupy like a disease a parasite if you will :!: :wink:

8)

thundertaker · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:

You've watched Mel Gibson's 'The Patriot' and now you think you know all there is to know about the American War of Independence? :lol:

A lot of Canadians today are the descendents of American Loyalists whohad their property confiscated and were driven out of the colonies in fear of their lives by the victorious rebels at the end of the war in 1782. They would have been murdered if they had hung around, so no side is completely innocent of crimes I can assure you.

As for implying the English were 'buddies' with the Nazis, if that was the case, what does it say about the large numbers of Quebecois who opposed Canada's involvement in the Second World war following the fall of France in 1940, and saw it as an 'english' war from then on?

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: You've watched Mel Gibson's 'The Patriot' and now you think you know all there is to know about the American War of Independence? :lol:

A lot of Canadians today are the descendents of American Loyalists whohad their property confiscated and were driven out of the colonies in fear of their lives by the victorious rebels at the end of the war in 1782. They would have been murdered if they had hung around, so no side is completely innocent of crimes I can assure you.

As for implying the English were 'buddies' with the Nazis, if that was the case, what does it say about the large numbers of Quebecois who opposed Canada's involvement in the Second World war following the fall of France in 1940, and saw it as an 'english' war from then on?

Quebecois/Canadians one in the same. The fact is we are an occupied people that fell under British Rule. Rather than dodge the Question, help this forum understand if this is standard briton practice.

Do you think it is acceptable that the britons & tories (American Traitors) assume our Canadian identity. (YES/NO?)

Has this been done elsewhere by Britons??

Please help this forum out. Thanks to the founding fathers and the first few Presidents of the United States of America we "true Canadians" have been forever immortalized in the documented record of the founding fathers. Thankfully the United States is the lone Financial & Military power in the world so they are in a position to correct this travesty/atrocity of identity theft being carried out by American Traitors and the briton enemies north of the Border against their undisputable freedom ally the Quebecois (Canadians).

Don't dodge and give us some honest feedback!!

:-D

thundertaker · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:40 am Post subject:

Quote: Do you think it is acceptable that the britons & tories (American Traitors) assume our Canadian identity. (YES/NO?)

They had to call their country something. British North America is all well and good, but it's not a catchy name for a country. The loyalists were not traitors, quite the opposite. You have to fight against your previous loyalties in order to be a traitor. The rebels technically were the traitors, not the Tories.

As for the americans liberating Quebec, it's not going to happen, because this isn't 1776 or 1812 any more. They're allies with both Canada and Britain. As for whether they sympathise with Quebec nationalism, I've got two words for you. 'Freedom Fries'........:lol:

_747 · Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 59

thundertaker wrote: Quote: Do you think it is acceptable that the britons & tories (American Traitors) assume our Canadian identity. (YES/NO?)

They had to call their country something. British North America is all well and good, but it's not a catchy name for a country. The loyalists were not traitors, quite the opposite. You have to fight against your previous loyalties in order to be a traitor. The rebels technically were the traitors, not the Tories.

As for the americans liberating Quebec, it's not going to happen, because this isn't 1776 or 1812 any more. They're allies with both Canada and Britain. As for whether they sympathise with Quebec nationalism, I've got two words for you. 'Freedom Fries'........:lol:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/legacy/chap-5.html#chap5-2

Using Canada as a name is fine. My issue is that Canadian is the identity of the French Colonialists. What if the Germans started calling themselves British. Would you be alarmed? What if the Mexicans started calling themselves American, would there be issue?? That fact is the people of Canada were not Canadian until after 1956, before that they were british subjects and they travelled as british Nationals. In the grand scheme of things that is not so far away that issue can't be made of it.

In my view it is criminal. Plain and simple identity theft. I will tell you why? As a true Canadian we wanted the United States to win in the war of 1812 as in the revolution of 1776. The propoganda Canadian history is that we faught off the Americans and pledged our love for the Queen (vomit). Canada is nothing but a pillar of lies. The only history there really is, is our shared history with the United States. Canadian imposters want no part of that history. Why?? Tory traitors and briton Queen lovers.

Over the last 1000 years when has France and Britain been close buddies?? Are we any different than you?? The only solice I have is that English Canada are American Traitors which is lowest scum there is or Queen Lovers (few admit to that) so like a stray dog they run and conceal themselves under our colonial identity Canadian.

Yes the United States had the Freedom Fries.

We have the Canada Roll

http://storage.msn.com/x1pAdjo0uCo2H1W-B2b7iC-iiOzS8HrduoL67giaVGoJAQiyn1-UQlp9QBImPEnSPziCo97f8tq0LVUBAmGcCabFZUgqdsiQuvffCSgkL_MBWiFcXIguJLwsA

Unless we start getting some moral support from the United States and France. We too are going to have to have the Freedom Fries and the Uncle Sam Roll :lol: :lol: :lol: We shouldn't leave you out, so some sort of English Roll will also have to be put together. :wink: :-D

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9043 Location: Vancouver

747 has problems.

Your quebecois...Sponsorship scandel....currupt....dishonest......ummm.

I think Quebec demanding nationalism is like Taiwan demanding nationalism...But wait, Taiwan has an economy and allies, so I guess it isn't like Quebec.

My bad

the hare · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 118

Janis wrote: Yukon wrote: janis wrote:

"...Whatever side your on about WMD's (the entire world knew he had them, and used them)..."

I just can't believe how naive some people can be, indeed fanatical. How can thinking person believe Junior's WMD theory? They have not found a trace of WMD. Wake up, give your head a shake - BUSH lied to the world !

Wow! You deny Saddam ever possessed or ever used them. This is what is incredible. Inaction was not an option. Saddam chose his own fate.
I suggest you go back and check your history. But, then facts don't factor
into your way of thinking, I forgot.

his weapons were provided by the americans, as was his power. Americans being the largest arms dealer on the planet, would profit more if saddam was actually using those weapons and therfore buy more. i guess my main point is that saddam was f'ed from the begining and that the iraq issue and many others can be traced to world super powers.
(little side note: when america says it is giving economic aid... more than likely it is actually millitary aid... and any one can see that flooding a country with weapons aint going to give them clean human rights record)
The Hare

Lancaster · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Ottawa

747... what an appropriate name....

Well, Think of it like this, Naziism started with hitler, does this make every ancestor of hitler a nazi? no, same goes for the so-called "good germans" and "bad Germans" you so arrogantly labled...

Also 747, You are a racist. If your of British descent, or Indian descent, or Egyptian descent, or German descent or watever descet, but you were born in Canada, Guess what? YOU'RE CANADIAN! What right do you have to say that because you are of French descent you are more canadian than me? none. And you know what? your beloved Bloc Quebecois is losing, or are you going to ignore your liberal provincial government? The reason you elect Bloc Federally but not provincially is because the Bloc will cry you a river in Parliament, but it can't govern to save it's life, but the liberals and conservatives can. Maybe the NDP...

Cutthroat · Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 2

Quote: In my view it is criminal. Plain and simple identity theft.

Wow, be more hypocritical. If we have done any 'identity theft', it is no worse than what the French did when they came to North America. It was the natives who had originally came up with the name Canada - or kanata. Please don't act like it was the French who came up with the name. If anyone has a right to complain about so called identity theft, its damned well not the French.