Political Crossfire Forums

[Golddave]

Fist in the air wrote: What makes english so much a superior language?
We should all be made to learn a Indigenous (Aboriginal) dialect does that sound fair...

Does to me and we should all be forced to adopt Indigineous culture....

Our society is not white and english speaking. Where i live around 52% of people were born overseas.

Not the Hilton hotel just a basic housing unit. And thats the alternative to the water cannon.

A water Cannon pushed someone with such great force it breaks bones and can cause death through brain injury if one gets thrown against an object by its force.

These water cannons are not hoses. THey are vehicals as big as cars that drive around like tanks and pump water out of a nozzle thats diameter over a metre.

This is no way to treat people, there is no humanity in Howard and his policies.

Where to begin, where to begin. The idea of us learning an indiginous dialect is absurd, do you just say this crap to get a rise out of me? or are you just moronic in your ideas? The reasons why your suggestion is totally ludicrist is as follows:

1. There are hundreds of dialects, which one are you going to choose?

2. Who cares if you think it is fair? it is totally unreasonable, how are we expected to trade with foreign countries and conduct business if we all speak a minority, dying language?

3. Why should indiginous languages be introduced where english is considered to be the every day language of Australians, once again playing it up for the minorities.

4. I would not expect to have immigrants learn a language that is so concerntrated on where it is spoken and not universal like english.

The majority of our society is english speaking, the aborigional dialect language idea is quite simply for want of a better word, crap. Also, why do we want to go back to a primitive culture for? its not very evolutionary, I mean what are you implying? that we raze everything to the ground and I wrap a kangeroo skin round my privates, dance around a fire and spear animals to live? no thanks I am happier where I am now. Some of the aborigional idealogies of religion and their dream time stories are interesting but certainly turning back the clock is stupid. We would be colonized within a century by a country that needs somewhere bigger to base its population as spears don't really do much against guns as evidenced in history.

We have tried to put refugees in basic housing units, I give singleton as an example and all they did was b**** and whinge. Maybe we should have gotton the soldiers at the school of infantry down there to go through and fire random shots, dress up in riot gear and smash them, remind them of where they ran from. Now, I am totally having a go with the previous sentence but I am high lighting the fact that it is not that bad considering where they have come from. Well what do you consider we should do instead of water cannons? I think that a council should be appointed by former asylum seekers who have gained citizenship to monitor the situation and be a voice for their people. Any subsequent rioters would then go in front of a judicary including the council and government officals and repeating offenders deported if it is proven that there was a lack of cause for the riot/tantrum chucking like there was at Singleton. I do know what a water cannon is, I am trained for riot control with my job. They have them in jails to, do you think that they should be used on "Australian Criminals" as well? that is a question I'd be interested in your answer.

[Golddave]

krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: Fist in the air wrote: Forcing people to serve in the military, people who are often escaping from re-victimisamtion is facisim with no regards for human rights.

People should be encouraged to learn the language of the country they live in, most do and if not their kids do. This is not somthing you can force onto people.

If Wommera is so great why in the middle of the Desert. I been to Wommera to and seen Assylum seekers water cannoned, not a nice place.

Whats so wrong with my earlier post re: Alternative models?

This is Australia, if people aren't willing to learn english to a satisfactory level then they can get out. People need to start respecting what it is to be an Australian citizen, we have many rights including the right to leave, if they don't like it, they can exercise that right and piss off. The water cannon is used for rioting refugees, what is the alternative? rubber bullets which kill? I think not. Besides a nice soak on a hot windy day in the desert would be nice I would think. What do you want to do? move them into the hilton adelaide at tax payers expense? It is already costing too much to keep these criminals, if there is a genuine case for them being there then help them but I believe it should be investigated on a case by case basis. We do not want people in this country who are going to affect our way of life or who are not going to contribute to our society or who pose a potential threat to us, I offered the land army as an alternative as well which is basically working the land to produce crops. The immigrants would be helping the economy and also provide for themselves and be able to establish some wealth. I think we can force making people speak english because they have to respect that they are seeking a better life and want to intergrate into OUR society.

Why are you so concerned with making sure there English is up to scratch? I can’t see you or anyone you know wanting to talk to them in the near future. "WE REFUGEES HAVE REQUEST - FROM AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE FOR HELP". This was what the refugees were protesting for, to draw attention to their unjust detention. If I was locked up for no reason you can bet I’d be making some racket too. We both agree it’s expensive, so why are you supporting mandatory detention? You can’t force people to do squat! We live in a multicultural society where English is the main language, but people communicate on many different levels. Post war Australia was built by the hard work of Italian and Greek immigrants who still live here to this day speaking not one word of English. Should these people be shipped off as well?

I am trying to preserve our way of life, this is Australia, we speak english, not vietnamese, japanese, arabic, italian, gaelic or whatever language you want, if you want to speak the languages, speak them in the confounds of your own house or at dinner parties with your friends. I do not want to have to guess what some one is ordering if they have lived in the country for 5 years, that is just ridiculous, it is tolerable if the person is a tourist but if they live here, learn the bloody lingo. My father speaks italian at home, my mothers family, a lot of them can speak gaelic and welsh but they can all speak to english to a high standard and this is the language they use when they are in general Australian society. I find it hard to believe that those italian and greek pioneers can't speak english to this day, there may be a couple but to suggest the majority would be bs. If that were the case, their children should be taught english which they would be at school and they themselves should be at least able to speak sufficant english to converse with us in every day life. Refugees are locked up for a reason, because they broke our laws by entering the country illegally (I am starting to sound like a broken record). Like it or hate it, the law is there and once you step foot in Australian waters/territory like any other country in the world, you must adhere to the law. By entering ILLEGALLY, they are commiting a criminal act hence their detention. I am not even a lawyer yet I can grasp this simple logic, it is CDF man! Yes it is expensive and they are doing squat, what do you want to do? test the collins class on their junks? that would certainly stop them for entering illegally. While it is wrong to do that, I guarentee no country would go to war with us because of that because we are protecting our borders and we have a right to do that as do other countries. I do have friends who are immigrants and one who was an asylum seeker, while I do not agree with the way he entered the country, he is now a citizen and displays a genuine love for this country, he is in the army for christs sakes so I respect him. It doesn't matter if I am not going to talk to the refugees, you go to France, even as a tourist, they are quite rude if you can't speak even a little bit of conversational french. They were rude to the point of arrogant but hey it is there country so who are we to judge. When in Rome, do as the romans do. Why should it be any different here? we are turning into a nation of soft cocks. Gone are the hardened men of the anzacs, they would be turning in their graves if they heard the nonsense of previous threads.

[Golddave]

krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: What a load of left wing, propaganda BS. I have never been to a young libs meeting. I watched the debate and I must say, Latham just sprouts crap that people want to hear. "We'll do more in this corner of the world... blah blah blah". We are not a bigger target for our participation in Iraq, I was deployed there first hand and I feel better that I was there when Saddam was ousted. The people were so happy that they were now free, the vast majority of them are friendly, beautiful people who loved the fact Australians were there to help out. Isn't that in our nation as Australians? To get in there and give a hand when it is needed? The housing market is starting to come down, interest rates are good and unemployment is extreamyl low, that is why the great australian dream is possible. As for you pass the ganja greenies, you have no idea, if you want howard and his government out, vote for Latham because the greens are not going to pull the kind of votes needed to make a huge difference. I do not see in the near future, the greens being a MAJOR party. Ie. Severly rivaling ALP and the coalition. Howard is not a human rights violator, it is our right as a country to protect our borders, just because we are an island continent does n't make us any different.
I am sick of this p/c crowd spewing on about this crap.

Howard is a human rights violator and should be tried in an international court. He has lock people up in the middle of the desert who are guilt of no crime. Assylum seekers are not our enemy, either are Aboriginies, Workers, Young People, Iraqis, Muslims or anyone that earns under 52,000 a year. Our real enemy is Howard he is trying to shift the crosshairs of his own head by blaming the powerless. The day will come, i hope on October 9, that we will be rid of this criminal despot.

As for locking people up in the desert, well they shouldn't be here in the first place, there are ways to apply for refugee status, legally, these people are illegally entering the country. I had a friend of mine who was responsible for boarding boats in the NT and searching for illegal substances, illegal immigrants etc. He told me stories about how he'd go aboard the junk and they would be like "we love australia" and when they were informed they weren't allowed into the country because they were entering illegally, the cries quickly became violent and anti australian, hope bin laden gets you etc. I do not want people like that in my country, we should be compassionate but not complacent, Australia, its people, their way of life, that should come first.

Fist in the air, I think it is absolutely ridiculous how you compare the budget with discriminating against people, I earn under $52000 a year, I am a worker and a young person, hell I have even dabbled in Islam but you do not see me, trying to jump on the band wagon and say, "help me I am hard done by".
The world is your oyster go and out there and make it, no one else is going to do it for you, being young, an immigrant, of another race, colour or creed is not an excuse, embrace who you are, love it and better yourself. Only then will you get ahead.
You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

- Saddam Hussein had been murdering and terrorizing the Iraqi people for over 30 years, at times with the support of the US administration.

- Iraq has been in possession on chemical weapons since the late 1970's. The US was well aware of this as they provided SAT Imagery for the Iraqi Army to use in chemical attacks against the Iranians.

- Iraq WAS a secular society, renowned for its hard-line approach to terrorist organisations.

- Iraq is not a nuclear power.

I'm struggling to understand on what basis you could be happy to participate in this illegal invasion of a sovereign nation. The fact that Saddam is gone is a good thing, but at what cost?

You are so hypocritical and righteous mate, on one hand you claim the Iraqi people (when within the confines of their own country) are worthy of our/your help, yet when they arrive as refugees on our shores (they're people who are fleeing the country from ethnic, religious or political persecution) you think we should lock them up in cages in the middle of the f***ing desert. You can't have it both ways champ. If your gonna be an scared little pric and support a government that wants to disregard the international conventions on human rights....DON'T EVER ATTEMPT TO USE THE WELFARE OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AS JUSTIFICATION FOR YOUR ACTIONS, BECAUSE THAT IS JUST f***ing LAUGHABLE!!

Obviously be it right or wrong the events of September 11 accelerated a definate and defiant stance against Saddam Hussein. It should have been done much earlier, they had the oppurtunity in the first gulf war to keep rolling in past Basra rd but they didn't. I believe that was a mistake. I was not part of the invasion of Iraq, by the time I got there most of that was being mopped up, I was part of the occupying force, not the invading force, I would like to make that clear however I do not think I have to justify myself to you because I am a patriot and proud to serve my country in any capacity that I believe in. You tend to forget these immigrants are "ILLEGALLY" entering the country. Yes, it is unfortunate of the circumstances that allow this to occur, we should be sorting out the problems before they even get to this point. An asylum seeker has the right to seek refugee status in this country but what do you expect? to put them up at the hilton hotel? I remember when they allowed refugees to stay at Singleton Army barracks and they all bitched and whinged. It was good enough for my uncle before he went over to vietnam. Enough is enough, if you don't do things the right way, its the high way, bottom F**K** line. Why should we have to pay because others are neglecting their responsibilities? I believe we should help them, I am not heartless but at the same time, there are right and wrong ways to go about things. Australia is not alone with its immigration policies. There is overwealming evidence that Iraq was sympathtic to terroist causes. Bin Laden has met with Saddam in the past, there is an old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Do the maths.

NO! Not obviously anything. The events of Sep 11 had no connection to Iraq or Saddam Hussein. None have ever been proven and there is no overwhelming evidence to prove that Iraq had connections to any terrorist orginisation whatsoever. Where is your proof?? If it is so damning and you have it all....let's here it then, blow by blow.

Refugees are not illegal immigrants, they're asylum seekers. An illegal immigrant is someone who is attempting to violate a countries immigration law by entering said country illegally....kinda makes you wonder how they got the name? Now, when these filthy rotten criminals break this rather fundamental LAW of all sovereign nations, they are put before a court of LAW and if found guilty, punished according to the LAW. The refugees that are being illegal detained by the Aust gov have broken no law, if they had they would have been prosecuted and either be deported or incarcerated in the prison system.

These people aren't leaving there countries like you pack the kingswood for the family trip to Bonny Doon, they're F**K** refugees you nitwit. They're fleeing the country most times under threat of they're lives with no doc of who they are and where they're from. Your right in one sense, it is possible for asylum seekers to be granted a visa from our overseas embassies; in countries where we have a representation. and that's also assuming the asylum seekers are able to access the embassy. However, we also have a responsibility to provide a safe haven for those refugees that arrive on our shores to claim asylum.

As for your last little comment...Saddam meeting Osama...exactly what extraordinary parallel are you drawing from this.

Two more things, Mark Latham is gonna s**t it in and the Bee Gees BLOW REAL F**K** HARD...whichever way you look at it!

I never said that there was a direct connection between Iraq and Sept 11.
What I said was that this probably gave bush a better oppurtunity to remove Saddam which either way you look at it had to be done. There were Al Queda training camps in Iraq, money was exchanged between the Bin Laiden group and the Iraqi goverment. This is not the point we are arguing. Obviously Al Queda is a terror group made up of many nationalities, there are Iraqis amongst this but also sudanese, jordanians, sryians, saudi arabians etc.

To the arguement at hand, you have completely contridicted yourself. True there are people who are escaping persecution, but there are a lot that are not. The refugees are entering the country illegally as you have admitted. They are still entering the country illegally even if they are running away from something, they still need permission to enter our country, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO CONTROL OUR BORDERS. I do agree that by a case by case basis asylum can be granted which I believe is happening. As for the desert camps you go on about, I have friends that have worked at Woomera, the detainees get food, clean sheets, looked after, they can even get welfare which sadly thousands of AUSTRALIANS are living worse off. Besides it is better then the hell they ran away from, they should be processed there as quickly as possible and either deported if they do not have skills benefical to Australia or intergrated into society by becoming an Australian citizen and swearing allegiance to our nation.
I do not agree that we "have a responsibility" to ALL aslyum seekers, some want to hurt us, others do not need to flee their home lands in the first place and others more want to become a welfare burden on our society. Those that are persecuted and who do not pose a threat to us should be helped. However I believe the current circumstances ie detention centres are adequate in some ways but not others, I believe accomodation wise it is sufficant. The refugees should be taught and expected to have adequate english speaking, reading and writting skills before being released. They should be taught australian culture and customs and while maintaining their own language and culture is vastly important, they should make an effort to fit in with our society.

Another alternative would be raising a foreign legion and have refugees do five years service in either a military or a land army to show their love for their new country. They would be given land and a house in return, health care and citizenship. They would also develop a sense of pride about being Australian. That is just a thought, I know u are going to go off, because of your marxist beliefs but i thought I would chuck that red herring in. We are not NZ thank christ, we need to develop ideas that WILL work. By the way I drive a HSV, not a kingswood. Just cause you cruise around woodridge in your galant. Bee Gees do not blow, they have had more hits then marcey mark or whoever you listen to. Also if Latham wins and I believe it is possible, you bought it on yourself. Be careful what u wish for.

Be it a direct or indirect connection, any one at all is false. There is no credible evidence to make even the slightest of link between Iraq/Saddam and al Qaida, Bin Laden or terrorism broadly. If you have some, use it to back your allegations and also forward it to the US State Dept, reckon they would love to hear it. Your claims about the Bin Laden Group are irrelevant, go check who else BLG has had dealings with...there a construction firm, what's your point?

Yes we do have a right to control our borders, a right which we continue to exercise unless I’m mistaken. By arriving on Australian shores and declaring them self a refugee seeking asylum, a person has broken no law. As I have said above, if they had they would be charged. The government’s reasoning for detaining these people is to verify there identity and the legitimacy of there claims, the fact that this takes longer than a matter a weeks is not acceptable. About 80% of these people are eventually found to be refugees and allowed to stay in Australia. That is an awfully high percentage of innocent people that are having fundamental human rights violated, in some cases for a period of years. There are much more humane and acceptable ways of dealing with this problem…see fist for one.

Exactly what features of Australian culture and customs would you like these people to have to learn? I’m just curious as to what it means for you to be an Aussie.

The BLG was a front for money laundering to support terroist operations, that is a fact. Saddam needed to be overthrown, Iraq was harbouring terroists ie Chemical Ali and also was suspected of having WMD by the broarder intelligance community. Even if there was no link between terroism operations and Iraq, Saddam still needed to go, you accused Howard of being a human rights abuser, try living under Saddam. The people couldn't even goto the mosque, their place of worship for Saddams fear that they would plot against him there. I have been to Iraq and listened to people's stories, they are truly horrendous. They have broken no law by being a refugee however they are entering the country illegally and the government usally deports them if they do not have "just cause". Even if they do have just cause, they should seek Asylum through the appropiate channels, I agree that these need to be improved however I do not support people illegally entering the country. We need to increase border patrols and early warning systems. If a junk can make it to christmas island say, then maybe an "insert asian country here" submarine can as well, hell they might even be able to make it to the mainland without being detected. That is scary. I agree the process is long and drawn out but if the refugees applied the proper way with identification and documents, this would be quicker. I do not think the process should take longer then six weeks, I think it is sickening that it does. Either let them be refugees or deport them. Multiple deported offenders should be locked up for a period of time and then deported if they continue to do this, they should be locked up as criminals and charged. Woomera is not as bad as the places they are escaping, as I have said previously, they are fed, clothed and safe. I do not think it would be wise letting them "roam the streets" with out properly identifying them, knowing what their intent is and weather or not they qualify for refugee status.

[Golddave]

krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: Fist in the air wrote: Forcing people to serve in the military, people who are often escaping from re-victimisamtion is facisim with no regards for human rights.

People should be encouraged to learn the language of the country they live in, most do and if not their kids do. This is not somthing you can force onto people.

If Wommera is so great why in the middle of the Desert. I been to Wommera to and seen Assylum seekers water cannoned, not a nice place.

Whats so wrong with my earlier post re: Alternative models?

This is Australia, if people aren't willing to learn english to a satisfactory level then they can get out. People need to start respecting what it is to be an Australian citizen, we have many rights including the right to leave, if they don't like it, they can exercise that right and piss off. The water cannon is used for rioting refugees, what is the alternative? rubber bullets which kill? I think not. Besides a nice soak on a hot windy day in the desert would be nice I would think. What do you want to do? move them into the hilton adelaide at tax payers expense? It is already costing too much to keep these criminals, if there is a genuine case for them being there then help them but I believe it should be investigated on a case by case basis. We do not want people in this country who are going to affect our way of life or who are not going to contribute to our society or who pose a potential threat to us, I offered the land army as an alternative as well which is basically working the land to produce crops. The immigrants would be helping the economy and also provide for themselves and be able to establish some wealth. I think we can force making people speak english because they have to respect that they are seeking a better life and want to intergrate into OUR society.

Why are you so concerned with making sure there English is up to scratch? I can’t see you or anyone you know wanting to talk to them in the near future. "WE REFUGEES HAVE REQUEST - FROM AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE FOR HELP". This was what the refugees were protesting for, to draw attention to their unjust detention. If I was locked up for no reason you can bet I’d be making some racket too. We both agree it’s expensive, so why are you supporting mandatory detention? You can’t force people to do squat! We live in a multicultural society where English is the main language, but people communicate on many different levels. Post war Australia was built by the hard work of Italian and Greek immigrants who still live here to this day speaking not one word of English. Should these people be shipped off as well?

Mate, your english isn't upto scratch, now I am not a school teacher but your grammer is crap. Their is used to show possession, ie. first sentence, their english, there is used in the context as follows: the ball is over there. Now that sign, I hope the refugees wrote that because if they didn't it is back to school for you. You also do not use commas effectively, I was nearly out of breath reading some of those sentences. The word but is a joining word, there is no need to put a comma after it. English is with a small e because you are talking about the language not the people as you correctly demonstrated with Greek and Italians etc. This was just some food for thought.

[Golddave]

maxtsu wrote: Fist in the air wrote: What makes english so much a superior language?
We should all be made to learn a Indigenous (Aboriginal) dialect does that sound fair...

Does to me and we should all be forced to adopt Indigineous culture....

Our society is not white and english speaking. Where i live around 52% of people were born overseas.

So true.
If people were to speak "real" "original" Aussie, then it would be one of the indigenous languages.

That is insane Maxtsu. It is like me suggesting you all go back and speak the language of the vikings, how absurd. We do speak real Australian, where do you think words like "sheila" and "bonzer" come from. Being from Europe, you probably only hear G'day and mate.

[thundertaker]

Golddave wrote: maxtsu wrote: Fist in the air wrote: What makes english so much a superior language?
We should all be made to learn a Indigenous (Aboriginal) dialect does that sound fair...

Does to me and we should all be forced to adopt Indigineous culture....

Our society is not white and english speaking. Where i live around 52% of people were born overseas.

So true.
If people were to speak "real" "original" Aussie, then it would be one of the indigenous languages.

That is insane Maxtsu. It is like me suggesting you all go back and speak the language of the vikings, how absurd. We do speak real Australian, where do you think words like "sheila" and "bonzer" come from. Being from Europe, you probably only hear G'day and mate.

Yes, yes, we get 'Neighbours' and 'Home and Away' as well you know........ :lol:

[krinkle]

Golddave wrote: krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: Fist in the air wrote: Forcing people to serve in the military, people who are often escaping from re-victimisamtion is facisim with no regards for human rights.

People should be encouraged to learn the language of the country they live in, most do and if not their kids do. This is not somthing you can force onto people.

If Wommera is so great why in the middle of the Desert. I been to Wommera to and seen Assylum seekers water cannoned, not a nice place.

Whats so wrong with my earlier post re: Alternative models?

This is Australia, if people aren't willing to learn english to a satisfactory level then they can get out. People need to start respecting what it is to be an Australian citizen, we have many rights including the right to leave, if they don't like it, they can exercise that right and piss off. The water cannon is used for rioting refugees, what is the alternative? rubber bullets which kill? I think not. Besides a nice soak on a hot windy day in the desert would be nice I would think. What do you want to do? move them into the hilton adelaide at tax payers expense? It is already costing too much to keep these criminals, if there is a genuine case for them being there then help them but I believe it should be investigated on a case by case basis. We do not want people in this country who are going to affect our way of life or who are not going to contribute to our society or who pose a potential threat to us, I offered the land army as an alternative as well which is basically working the land to produce crops. The immigrants would be helping the economy and also provide for themselves and be able to establish some wealth. I think we can force making people speak english because they have to respect that they are seeking a better life and want to intergrate into OUR society.

Why are you so concerned with making sure there English is up to scratch? I can’t see you or anyone you know wanting to talk to them in the near future. "WE REFUGEES HAVE REQUEST - FROM AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE FOR HELP". This was what the refugees were protesting for, to draw attention to their unjust detention. If I was locked up for no reason you can bet I’d be making some racket too. We both agree it’s expensive, so why are you supporting mandatory detention? You can’t force people to do squat! We live in a multicultural society where English is the main language, but people communicate on many different levels. Post war Australia was built by the hard work of Italian and Greek immigrants who still live here to this day speaking not one word of English. Should these people be shipped off as well?

I am trying to preserve our way of life, this is Australia, we speak english, not vietnamese, japanese, arabic, italian, gaelic or whatever language you want, if you want to speak the languages, speak them in the confounds of your own house or at dinner parties with your friends. I do not want to have to guess what some one is ordering if they have lived in the country for 5 years, that is just ridiculous, it is tolerable if the person is a tourist but if they live here, learn the bloody lingo. My father speaks italian at home, my mothers family, a lot of them can speak gaelic and welsh but they can all speak to english to a high standard and this is the language they use when they are in general Australian society. I find it hard to believe that those italian and greek pioneers can't speak english to this day, there may be a couple but to suggest the majority would be bs. If that were the case, their children should be taught english which they would be at school and they themselves should be at least able to speak sufficant english to converse with us in every day life. Refugees are locked up for a reason, because they broke our laws by entering the country illegally (I am starting to sound like a broken record). Like it or hate it, the law is there and once you step foot in Australian waters/territory like any other country in the world, you must adhere to the law. By entering ILLEGALLY, they are commiting a criminal act hence their detention. I am not even a lawyer yet I can grasp this simple logic, it is CDF man! Yes it is expensive and they are doing squat, what do you want to do? test the collins class on their junks? that would certainly stop them for entering illegally. While it is wrong to do that, I guarentee no country would go to war with us because of that because we are protecting our borders and we have a right to do that as do other countries. I do have friends who are immigrants and one who was an asylum seeker, while I do not agree with the way he entered the country, he is now a citizen and displays a genuine love for this country, he is in the army for christs sakes so I respect him. It doesn't matter if I am not going to talk to the refugees, you go to France, even as a tourist, they are quite rude if you can't speak even a little bit of conversational french. They were rude to the point of arrogant but hey it is there country so who are we to judge. When in Rome, do as the romans do. Why should it be any different here? we are turning into a nation of soft cocks. Gone are the hardened men of the anzacs, they would be turning in their graves if they heard the nonsense of previous threads.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

you forgot the don!

[krinkle]

Golddave wrote: krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: Fist in the air wrote: Forcing people to serve in the military, people who are often escaping from re-victimisamtion is facisim with no regards for human rights.

People should be encouraged to learn the language of the country they live in, most do and if not their kids do. This is not somthing you can force onto people.

If Wommera is so great why in the middle of the Desert. I been to Wommera to and seen Assylum seekers water cannoned, not a nice place.

Whats so wrong with my earlier post re: Alternative models?

This is Australia, if people aren't willing to learn english to a satisfactory level then they can get out. People need to start respecting what it is to be an Australian citizen, we have many rights including the right to leave, if they don't like it, they can exercise that right and piss off. The water cannon is used for rioting refugees, what is the alternative? rubber bullets which kill? I think not. Besides a nice soak on a hot windy day in the desert would be nice I would think. What do you want to do? move them into the hilton adelaide at tax payers expense? It is already costing too much to keep these criminals, if there is a genuine case for them being there then help them but I believe it should be investigated on a case by case basis. We do not want people in this country who are going to affect our way of life or who are not going to contribute to our society or who pose a potential threat to us, I offered the land army as an alternative as well which is basically working the land to produce crops. The immigrants would be helping the economy and also provide for themselves and be able to establish some wealth. I think we can force making people speak english because they have to respect that they are seeking a better life and want to intergrate into OUR society.

Why are you so concerned with making sure there English is up to scratch? I can’t see you or anyone you know wanting to talk to them in the near future. "WE REFUGEES HAVE REQUEST - FROM AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE FOR HELP". This was what the refugees were protesting for, to draw attention to their unjust detention. If I was locked up for no reason you can bet I’d be making some racket too. We both agree it’s expensive, so why are you supporting mandatory detention? You can’t force people to do squat! We live in a multicultural society where English is the main language, but people communicate on many different levels. Post war Australia was built by the hard work of Italian and Greek immigrants who still live here to this day speaking not one word of English. Should these people be shipped off as well?

Mate, your english isn't upto scratch, now I am not a school teacher but your grammer is crap. Their is used to show possession, ie. first sentence, their english, there is used in the context as follows: the ball is over there. Now that sign, I hope the refugees wrote that because if they didn't it is back to school for you. You also do not use commas effectively, I was nearly out of breath reading some of those sentences. The word but is a joining word, there is no need to put a comma after it. English is with a small e because you are talking about the language not the people as you correctly demonstrated with Greek and Italians etc. This was just some food for thought.

your a waste of space

[maxtsu]

krinkle wrote: thundertaker wrote: The rightfull heir to the English throne is an australian citizen, so I've heard......

Mate, most aussies couldn't give a rats arse about the Queen. We should be a republic soon enough.
That is true.
The only reason the last vote got messed up was because the public didn't like the alternative the politicians put up.

[maxtsu]

Golddave wrote: Where to begin, where to begin. The idea of us learning an indiginous dialect is absurd, do you just say this crap to get a rise out of me? or are you just moronic in your ideas? The reasons why your suggestion is totally ludicrist is as follows:

1. There are hundreds of dialects, which one are you going to choose?

2. Who cares if you think it is fair? it is totally unreasonable, how are we expected to trade with foreign countries and conduct business if we all speak a minority, dying language?

3. Why should indiginous languages be introduced where english is considered to be the every day language of Australians, once again playing it up for the minorities.

4. I would not expect to have immigrants learn a language that is so concerntrated on where it is spoken and not universal like english.

The majority of our society is english speaking, the aborigional dialect language idea is quite simply for want of a better word, crap.

If the argument is what is the best language. Well, Mandarin Chinese would be the most useful language for the South East Asia region.
Chinese is the business persons equivalent of english in Europe.

And whilst the subject is on languages in Australia. It confounds me why they teach french in the schools in Australia.
French as a specialist language, yes.
But isn't it crazy that it is being taught as a general subject for passing high school. Within the region the only place it could be used is in Vanuatu.
It would make common sense to include many more Asian languages.

[Dr Strangelove]

thundertaker wrote: Golddave wrote: maxtsu wrote: Fist in the air wrote: What makes english so much a superior language?
We should all be made to learn a Indigenous (Aboriginal) dialect does that sound fair...

Does to me and we should all be forced to adopt Indigineous culture....

Our society is not white and english speaking. Where i live around 52% of people were born overseas.

So true.
If people were to speak "real" "original" Aussie, then it would be one of the indigenous languages.

That is insane Maxtsu. It is like me suggesting you all go back and speak the language of the vikings, how absurd. We do speak real Australian, where do you think words like "sheila" and "bonzer" come from. Being from Europe, you probably only hear G'day and mate.

Yes, yes, we get 'Neighbours' and 'Home and Away' as well you know........ :lol:

See what happens when you try and dump your criminals 10,000 miles away. We form our own society, make crappy soapies and then send them to the mother country.

Ah revenge is sweet. :lol:

[Dr Strangelove]

maxtsu wrote: Golddave wrote: Where to begin, where to begin. The idea of us learning an indiginous dialect is absurd, do you just say this crap to get a rise out of me? or are you just moronic in your ideas? The reasons why your suggestion is totally ludicrist is as follows:

1. There are hundreds of dialects, which one are you going to choose?

2. Who cares if you think it is fair? it is totally unreasonable, how are we expected to trade with foreign countries and conduct business if we all speak a minority, dying language?

3. Why should indiginous languages be introduced where english is considered to be the every day language of Australians, once again playing it up for the minorities.

4. I would not expect to have immigrants learn a language that is so concerntrated on where it is spoken and not universal like english.

The majority of our society is english speaking, the aborigional dialect language idea is quite simply for want of a better word, crap.

If the argument is what is the best language. Well, Mandarin Chinese would be the most useful language for the South East Asia region.
Chinese is the business persons equivalent of english in Europe.

And whilst the subject is on languages in Australia. It confounds me why they teach french in the schools in Australia.
French as a specialist language, yes.
But isn't it crazy that it is being taught as a general subject for passing high school. Within the region the only place it could be used is in Vanuatu.
It would make common sense to include many more Asian languages.

French is a leftover from the days when Australians primarily travelled to Europe.

At the High School I went to there were only three languages on offer - French, German and Indonesian. I took German, but should have taken Indonesian. That was 20 years ago.

Nowadays, there are a lot more languages available such as Japanese, Vietnamese and even Bengali. Certain Aboriginal Dialects/Languages are offered at particular schools, usually within the areas that the tribe is associated with.

A lot of the less popular/well-known languages can be studied, by High School students, through the Technical & Further Education establishments (TAFEs). This allows students to choose a language, other than those offered by the High School, as part of their studies.

[Golddave]

maxtsu wrote: Golddave wrote: Where to begin, where to begin. The idea of us learning an indiginous dialect is absurd, do you just say this crap to get a rise out of me? or are you just moronic in your ideas? The reasons why your suggestion is totally ludicrist is as follows:

1. There are hundreds of dialects, which one are you going to choose?

2. Who cares if you think it is fair? it is totally unreasonable, how are we expected to trade with foreign countries and conduct business if we all speak a minority, dying language?

3. Why should indiginous languages be introduced where english is considered to be the every day language of Australians, once again playing it up for the minorities.

4. I would not expect to have immigrants learn a language that is so concerntrated on where it is spoken and not universal like english.

The majority of our society is english speaking, the aborigional dialect language idea is quite simply for want of a better word, crap.

If the argument is what is the best language. Well, Mandarin Chinese would be the most useful language for the South East Asia region.
Chinese is the business persons equivalent of english in Europe.

And whilst the subject is on languages in Australia. It confounds me why they teach french in the schools in Australia.
French as a specialist language, yes.
But isn't it crazy that it is being taught as a general subject for passing high school. Within the region the only place it could be used is in Vanuatu.
It would make common sense to include many more Asian languages.

Mate I do not know where you are getting your info from but their is no requirement in Australia to take French as a subject to pass high school.
True, french is offered but so is German, Japanese and Italian. I disagree that chinese is the businessman's language in SE Asia, whenever I have discussed business with the inhabitants, english is the common language used. Otherwise the language of the area is used ie. Bahasa in Indonesia, Japanese in Nippon etc.

[Golddave]

maxtsu wrote: Golddave wrote: Where to begin, where to begin. The idea of us learning an indiginous dialect is absurd, do you just say this crap to get a rise out of me? or are you just moronic in your ideas? The reasons why your suggestion is totally ludicrist is as follows:

1. There are hundreds of dialects, which one are you going to choose?

2. Who cares if you think it is fair? it is totally unreasonable, how are we expected to trade with foreign countries and conduct business if we all speak a minority, dying language?

3. Why should indiginous languages be introduced where english is considered to be the every day language of Australians, once again playing it up for the minorities.

4. I would not expect to have immigrants learn a language that is so concerntrated on where it is spoken and not universal like english.

The majority of our society is english speaking, the aborigional dialect language idea is quite simply for want of a better word, crap.

If the argument is what is the best language. Well, Mandarin Chinese would be the most useful language for the South East Asia region.
Chinese is the business persons equivalent of english in Europe.

And whilst the subject is on languages in Australia. It confounds me why they teach french in the schools in Australia.
French as a specialist language, yes.
But isn't it crazy that it is being taught as a general subject for passing high school. Within the region the only place it could be used is in Vanuatu.
It would make common sense to include many more Asian languages.

Mate I do not know where you are getting your info from but their is no requirement in Australia to take French as a subject to pass high school.
True, french is offered but so is German, Japanese and Italian. I disagree that chinese is the businessman's language in SE Asia, whenever I have discussed business with the inhabitants, english is the common language used. Otherwise the language of the area is used ie. Bahasa in Indonesia, Japanese in Nippon etc.

[Golddave]

krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: krinkle wrote: Golddave wrote: Fist in the air wrote: Forcing people to serve in the military, people who are often escaping from re-victimisamtion is facisim with no regards for human rights.

People should be encouraged to learn the language of the country they live in, most do and if not their kids do. This is not somthing you can force onto people.

If Wommera is so great why in the middle of the Desert. I been to Wommera to and seen Assylum seekers water cannoned, not a nice place.

Whats so wrong with my earlier post re: Alternative models?

This is Australia, if people aren't willing to learn english to a satisfactory level then they can get out. People need to start respecting what it is to be an Australian citizen, we have many rights including the right to leave, if they don't like it, they can exercise that right and piss off. The water cannon is used for rioting refugees, what is the alternative? rubber bullets which kill? I think not. Besides a nice soak on a hot windy day in the desert would be nice I would think. What do you want to do? move them into the hilton adelaide at tax payers expense? It is already costing too much to keep these criminals, if there is a genuine case for them being there then help them but I believe it should be investigated on a case by case basis. We do not want people in this country who are going to affect our way of life or who are not going to contribute to our society or who pose a potential threat to us, I offered the land army as an alternative as well which is basically working the land to produce crops. The immigrants would be helping the economy and also provide for themselves and be able to establish some wealth. I think we can force making people speak english because they have to respect that they are seeking a better life and want to intergrate into OUR society.

Why are you so concerned with making sure there English is up to scratch? I can’t see you or anyone you know wanting to talk to them in the near future. "WE REFUGEES HAVE REQUEST - FROM AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE FOR HELP". This was what the refugees were protesting for, to draw attention to their unjust detention. If I was locked up for no reason you can bet I’d be making some racket too. We both agree it’s expensive, so why are you supporting mandatory detention? You can’t force people to do squat! We live in a multicultural society where English is the main language, but people communicate on many different levels. Post war Australia was built by the hard work of Italian and Greek immigrants who still live here to this day speaking not one word of English. Should these people be shipped off as well?

Mate, your english isn't upto scratch, now I am not a school teacher but your grammer is crap. Their is used to show possession, ie. first sentence, their english, there is used in the context as follows: the ball is over there. Now that sign, I hope the refugees wrote that because if they didn't it is back to school for you. You also do not use commas effectively, I was nearly out of breath reading some of those sentences. The word but is a joining word, there is no need to put a comma after it. English is with a small e because you are talking about the language not the people as you correctly demonstrated with Greek and Italians etc. This was just some food for thought.

your a waste of space

At least I am contributing to society and not trying to run the country into the ground with dumb ass ideas.

[Fist in the air]

My point re: Indiginous language is just to show that English dosnt have to be the dominate only language just as an Indiginous language dosnt have to be, their is a variety of language that can coexist.

Indigenous people only worked a few hours a day before colonisation, sounds good to me.

how do you judge a culture, with your western ideological baggage i presume.....

[Golddave]

Fist in the air wrote: My point re: Indiginous language is just to show that English dosnt have to be the dominate only language just as an Indiginous language dosnt have to be, their is a variety of language that can coexist.

Indigenous people only worked a few hours a day before colonisation, sounds good to me.

how do you judge a culture, with your western ideological baggage i presume.....

Uh uh uh english doesn't uh uh have to be the uh dominant language. Good on ya mate, why don't we all just grunt like apes. Your opening paragraph is so muddled up with bad grammar, hidious sentence structure and spelling so horrendous that I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You should concerntrate on mastering the basics of the english language before deciding on alternatives.

Working a few hours a day and where did it get them? The only human inhabited continent that did not produce the bow and arrow. They also did not invent the wheel or even made a house. Not a very technologically advanced people by any means. I judge a culture by its influences on other cultures and the impact it makes on the world stage.

[maxtsu]

Golddave wrote: Mate I do not know where you are getting your info from but their is no requirement in Australia to take French as a subject to pass high school.
I didn't say it was a requirement. It is one of the general subjects.

and where am I getting my info from?
a school kid going to school :wink:

[Fist in the air]

Golddave, wouldnt the quality of life for all of the members of a grouping of people be the most important thing.

Why invent a wheel if you dont need one. If your life is ok as it is why change it? That is the idiocity of the wests philosiphy.

Their are many parts of Indiginous culture that were superior to our own, their knowlage of natural resources, etc.

You are being racist for putting down a people because they are different and do not match the western critera you judge them on.

try think outside the western capitalist system you live under. ?

[Kindred]

Quote:

Uh uh uh e (E)nglish doesn't uh uh have to be the uh dominant language. Good on ya mate, why don't we all just grunt like apes. Your opening paragraph is so muddled up with bad grammar, hidious (I think he means hideous) sentence structure and spelling so horrendous that I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. You should concerntrate (I think he means concentrate) on mastering the basics of the e(E)nglish language before deciding on alternatives.

Working a few hours a day and where did it get them? The only human inhabited continent that did not produce the bow and arrow. They also did not invent the wheel or even made a house. Not a very technologically advanced people by any means. I judge a culture by its influences on other cultures and the impact it makes on the world stage

I just made a couple of spelling and grammar corrections for you Dave, thank me later.