Political Crossfire Forums

[red dragon]

Why has nobody posted on this subject yet????

Terrible absoulutly terrible, I hope those people burn in hell for what they have done to the schoolchildren.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3624024.stm

[thundertaker]

Some of them managed to escape the cordon according to the BBC, how did they let that happen?

More to the point, how on earth do you combat terrorists who value human life, including their own, so cheaply?

[red dragon]

Well look how many people have bothered replying to condemn these terrorists action....................none. Obviously the election in the US is much more important. :roll:

[Rebel]

Truly tragic events....

[red dragon]

I can't believe anyone from the US can be arsed putting forward a condemnation against terrorism.

[Rebel]

You probably ned to put it on the politics board on the top of the forum. most americans never visit this one...

[thundertaker]

I just saw Vannessa Redgrave on the Television using words like 'tragic' and 'regret' in the face of this evil event. Whilst refusing to actually condemn the terrorists who commited this atrocity agains children of all people. Sounds familiar somehow..........

I don't care how worthy people think a cause is, murdering innocent people to pursue a goal is utterly sick. A couple of them were apparently discovered by angry locals and beaten to death. 3 have been captured alive and 3 more are still on the run.

[Rebel]

If you're attempting to get a sly dig at me go right ahead son.

Tell me. Seeing as you are in Condemnation mode do you condemn the British Carpet bombing of the German City of Dresden in the final weks of WW2? NO militery targets there. Just indescriminate bombing of a non strategic city.

Or do the condemnations of innocent death only refer to non British assaults...?

[thundertaker]

Rebel wrote: If you're attempting to get a sly dig at me go right ahead son.

Tell me. Seeing as you are in Condemnation mode do you condemn the British Carpet bombing of the German City of Dresden in the final weks of WW2? NO militery targets there. Just indescriminate bombing of a non strategic city.

Or do the condemnations of innocent death only refer to non British assaults...?

I don't want this thread to turn into another IRA vs Britain debate, so I will answer the question in the European politics section under the IRA, Loyist etc thread.

That way we can leave this one for the Chechnya incident.......

[SpartanPhalanx]

Agree.

Reprehensible. Utterly barbaric to do what they've done to children.

Disgusting.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Apparently one of the Chechens caught was
a woman.....sure wouldn't want to be in her shoes.

The Russians will make the rest of her life a living hell to be sure.

[Duchifas]

Chechens learned well from their terrorist teachers, the Palestinians. Terrorists, they are one and the same anywhere in the world, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

Quote:
On May 15, 1974 (Israel's Independence Day) a group of 11th grade students from Safed (Tsfat) were on a field trip to the Golan, a full day of hikes. That night, the children were housed at a school in Ma’alot where they slept on the floor. During the night, three Arab terrorists dressed as IDF soldiers attacked the school, killing the guard and some of the children. Some of the children escaped by jumping out of a window on the second floor and the rest were held as hostages.

In the morning the terrorists were identified as members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP) who had infiltrated from Lebanon. The DFLP is a Marxist-Leninist and formerly pro-Soviet group that split from the Popular Font for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in 1969. They presented their demands: release Arab terrorists from Israeli prisons, or they will start to kill the children. The deadline was set at 6:00PM the same day.

The Knesset met in emergency session. Although Israel’s policy forbid negotiation with terrorists, the plight of the children forced an exception. By 3:00PM a decision was reached to negotiate, but the terrorists refused a request for more time.

At 5:45PM a unit of the elite Golani brigade stormed the building. All of the terrorists were killed in the assault, but not before they took the lives of 21 children. There were a total of 26 victims, including several people murdered by the terrorists on their way to the school the night before.

In Beirut, eloquent demonstrations honoring the fallen fedayeen as noble martyrs of the cause were ordered by Nayef Hawatmeh, the DFLP leader.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Quote: Duchifas wrote:-Chechens learned well from their terrorist teachers, the Palestinians. Terrorists, they are one and the same anywhere in the world, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.


Apples and oranges Duchifas. Nice attempt to whitewash the subject however.

And what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties Duchifas.

So how is the State of Israel any better than the Chechen murderers?

This better be good...... :twisted:

[Duchifas]

SpartanPhalanx wrote: Quote: Duchifas wrote:-Chechens learned well from their terrorist teachers, the Palestinians. Terrorists, they are one and the same anywhere in the world, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

Apples and oranges Duchifas. Nice attempt to whitewash the subject however.


Its always apples and oranges to you, Spartan. Because in one case Jews are killed, in another case non-Jews. To you that is always different. Even if terrorists take over a school and kill kids. As long as the kids are Jewish, to you it is always apples and oranges.

No that anyone expects anythign else out of you.

Quote:
And what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties Duchifas.

Russians used phosphorous bombs. They also used Grad system - which obliterates anything in its path, incuding civilian areas.

But you don't care to mention that. As long as Jews are killed, to you that is apples and oranges.

What of that, Spartan?

Quote:
So how is the State of Israel any better than the Chechen murderers?

This better be good...... :twisted:

The fact that YOU can't see the difference I only see as a good thing. In fact, if YOU and the likes of you thought that Israel is doing something right, I would be very seriously worried.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Duchifas wrote: SpartanPhalanx wrote: Quote: Duchifas wrote:-Chechens learned well from their terrorist teachers, the Palestinians. Terrorists, they are one and the same anywhere in the world, and the only way to deal with them is to kill them.

Apples and oranges Duchifas. Nice attempt to whitewash the subject however.


Its always apples and oranges to you, Spartan. Because in one case Jews are killed, in another case non-Jews. To you that is always different. Even if terrorists take over a school and kill kids. As long as the kids are Jewish, to you it is always apples and oranges.

No that anyone expects anythign else out of you.

Quote:
And what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties Duchifas.

Russians used phosphorous bombs. They also used Grad system - which obliterates anything in its path, incuding civilian areas.

But you don't care to mention that. As long as Jews are killed, to you that is apples and oranges.

What of that, Spartan?

Quote:
So how is the State of Israel any better than the Chechen murderers?

This better be good...... :twisted:

The fact that YOU can't see the difference I only see as a good thing. In fact, if YOU and the likes of you thought that Israel is doing something right, I would be very seriously worried.


Now look whose getting bent out of shape as you folks say.....:-)

Look, your arguments are always mined with hypocrisy and duplicity so leave out the semantics Dutchbag.

I asked you a simple question which was: what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties ... and you tap-danced round it like Shirley Temple at an audition.


What's the difference Duchifas?

Israel murdered not a couple of hundred people like the Chechen murderers but tens of thousands with artillery and phosphorous bombs.

I ask you again.

What's the difference?

[Duchifas]

Quote: What's the difference?

The difference is very simple. That you make up your questions by sticking random facts together, to make it look incriminatory. When in reality it is nothing more than you stiching a few half-truths together to make one nice plump juicy lie.

Quote: I asked you a simple question which was: what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties ... and you tap-danced round it like Shirley Temple at an audition.

Were phosphorous bombs used? Possibly a few on terrorist bases in Bekaa valley.

Were some schools or hospitals destroyed? Yes. From collateral damage and because PLO intentionally put bases in there to use human shields.

Were there massive casualties? Yes, mostly among the terrorists.

And of course along comes SpartanPhalanx, and puts these random facts together into one loaded biased question, so that readers who don't know much middle eastern history will be in shock and awe at Israel's inhumanity. But in reality, it is just your half-lies and half-truths woven together.

So what of your question?

Not much. Mostly lies.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Duchifas wrote: Quote: What's the difference?

The difference is very simple. That you make up your questions by sticking random facts together, to make it look incriminatory. When in reality it is nothing more than you stiching a few half-truths together to make one nice plump juicy lie.

Quote: I asked you a simple question which was: what of General Eitan who commanded the IDF forces during Israel's murder of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in Lebanon. Israeli use of phosphorous bombs on schools and hospitals caused massive casualties ... and you tap-danced round it like Shirley Temple at an audition.

Were phosphorous bombs used? Possibly a few on terrorist bases in Bekaa valley.

Were some schools or hospitals destroyed? Yes. From collateral damage and because PLO intentionally put bases in there to use human shields.

Were there massive casualties? Yes, mostly among the terrorists.

And of course along comes SpartanPhalanx, and puts these random facts together into one loaded biased question, so that readers who don't know much middle eastern history will be in shock and awe at Israel's inhumanity. But in reality, it is just your half-lies and half-truths woven together.

So what of your question?

Not much. Mostly lies.


Duchifas, you're nothing but a complete joke. The least I would expect would be some sort of critique to my question.Your rhetort proves not only to me but to everyone on this forum how incapable you are of engaging in basic logic or reason.

I asked you twice what difference there was between Israel's massacre of civilians in Lebanon during Israel's invasion in 1982, and the Chechen murders of children and you come back with very base personal attack.
Not only that, you justify the murder of civilians by saying they were mostly terrorists. Sorry Duchifas, but the facts of what actually happened tell a far different story.

Ze'ev Schiff and and Ehud Ya'ari are Israelis and are considered the definitive accounts of Israel's war in Lebanon and. Their book is titled "Israel's Lebanon War" Interestingly Israel censored 20-50% of their manuscript so what actully happened there is probably 35% worse than what was written.

What does that tell you Dutchbag???

During the first 3 months of Israel's invasion of Lebanon, 19,085 were killed..84% of them civilians

By the End of the invasion, about 500 Israelis and well over 30,000 Lebanese and Palestinians perished.

These are facts Duchifas, again, I challenge you to refute them.

Furthermore, Jacobo Timmerman, another Isreali and a Zionist wrote "The Longest War" He was actually there
and detailed agonizing descriptions of the death and destruction sewed by Israel. and I quote:

"On June 4 1982, Israel bombed the children's hospital in the Sabra refugee camp"

"On June 12, 1982, Israel shelled an Armenian sanitarium near Beirut, and the Acre Hospital in Beirut and a hospital in Aley."

"On June 24, Israli bombed the Islamic Home for Invalids"

"By August 4th, 1982, there was only ONE orphanage left standing in Beirut. Israel had destroyed the other eight

People were annihilated in cold blood and not a glimmer of concern
of conscience from the Israeli people. This is what breeds extremism Duchifas, when crimes are perpetrated on a defenceless population
there are consequences.

Norman Finkelstein wrote "Myths and realities of the Israel-Palestine conflict" in which the expulsion of the Arab population back in 1948
is exposed as a concerted Zionist plan to expel as many Palestinians as possible in order to expand the Jewish homeland. Benny Morris another Israeli historian concurs in his analysis of the expulsions.

Ron David, also an Israeli wrote "Arabs and Israel".....with a scathing critique of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians from 1948-present.

Incidentally Benny Morris is a Zionist "revisionist historian" who espouses the Zionist point of view.


My opinions are derived not from Arab sources, but from Jewish and Israeli opinion. I could derive them from Arab sources but I chose not to simply because that's what I chose to do.

Turns out people like you and there are many, i'm not naive of that fact, will say anything to discredit the truth, and by not answering simple questions, you confirm everything I said.


Have a nice day.

[Duchifas]

I already answered your question. The fact that you repeat it and drag some trashy quotes along, means nothing.

Thank you for supposedly unbiased "Jewish" sources you bring here. An old trick - if Jews say it, well, it must be true. What you conveniently don't mention is that these sources are and have always been known to be radical wacko leftists in Israel and elsewhere. Their views are not espoused by anyone in Israel except a few of their wacko followers.

To give an example, it would be like quoting Osama's speeches as a general representation of the Muslim opinion. In Israel, we view those idiots whose quotes you put here as radical morons out to make a quick buck on unsubstantiated tabloid stories. That's all.

So much for your scholarship, and the validity of your sources and the bigotry of your questions.

As usual, nothing out of the ordinary from you.

[SpartanPhalanx]

Duchifas wrote: I already answered your question. The fact that you repeat it and drag some trashy quotes along, means nothing..

You call that an answer.....my 12 year old nephew has more integrity than you could ever dream of ...your answer consisted of frothing at the mouth....inferring that all the Palestinians who were killed died because they were terrorists....

This was your answer:

Quote: Were phosphorous bombs used? Possibly a few on terrorist bases in Bekaa valley. . ....

Possibly??.......a few??? on terrorist bases?....what are YOUR sources Dutchbag??

Quote: Were some schools or hospitals destroyed? Yes. From collateral damage and because PLO intentionally put bases in there to use human shields. .

Again....sources....Zionist banter don't cut it anymore fella. Let's see what you got there stormtrooper.

Quote: Were there massive casualties? Yes, mostly among the terrorists..


This according to a Dutch Doctor by the name of Dr Ben Alofs, who worked at the Gaza hospital in Sabra:

"I was working with a team of Scandinavian, British, American, Dutch and German doctors and nurses. We had insisted that the Palestinian hospital staff flee to the northern part of West-Beirut. On Saturday morning September 18th, we were arrested by the Phalangists/Haddad militiamen. They forced us to leave our patients behind and took us outside Sabra and Shatila via the main road. We passed by hundreds of women, children and men who had been rounded up. We saw bodies in the road and the small alleyways. The militiamen shouted at us and called us ‘Baader Meinhof’. A Palestinian nurse who thought he would be safe with us, was identified and taken away behind a wall. A moment later came the gunshots.

Just before we reached the exit of the camp I saw an image that will forever be in my mind: a large mound of red earth with arms and legs sticking out. Alongside the mound stood an army bulldozer with Hebrew markings. Just outside the camp we were ordered to take off our hospital clothing and we were lined up against a wall. It was at that moment that an Israeli army officer drove up in an army vehicle. He saved our lives, ordering the militiamen to hand us over to the Israelis. Alongside the southern and western borders of the camps we saw Israeli tanks and halftracks."




Of course....this guy must be a radical wacko leftist along with all the rest of the folks who saw first hand Israel's brutality.Very convenient of you to discount fact and label it as propaganda.

As you like to say ......"Yipity."

Another thing...your Osama analogy is another laugh of the day...
At the very least you're mildly entertaining...at the most an entertaining
irritant....... :rotf:


You have nothing on my "Scholarship" Duchifas...in fact you couldn't hold a candle to me...so I wouldn't go try that track if I were you.


Oh...almost forgot....still waiting for your answer on the Nazi collaboration thread that you ran away from 2 days ago.

[Duchifas]

Quote: Possibly??.......a few??? on terrorist bases?....what are YOUR sources Dutchbag??

My knowledge. Of which I have some, and don't need to dig in the trashbin of crap to find support for my position. Unlike some people we know.

Quote: Oh...almost forgot....still waiting for your answer on the Nazi collaboration thread that you ran away from 2 days ago.

I didn't run away. I was writing in too many threads and lost track. I will get back there, don't worry.