Political Crossfire Forums

[flamboyant]

GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: I'd just like to hear GermanMax explain to us how political change occurred from within in post-WWII German and Japan.

:lol:

I was referring to the history of the United States.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Germany and Japan weren't divided by religious ideologies. Germany was desperate for change before the war broke out, Hitler was a result of desperation.

So you forgot about the fact that the U.S. installed a Democracy in Germany after WWII or you were just totally ignorant of the fact?

[NAB]

GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

[flamboyant]

NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

:tu:

Seems as if they're not too big on teaching history in Germany these days. Or maybe GermanMax actually thinks the South Koreans aren't thankful as hell that the line was held and they didn't get swallowed up by the hell on earth that is North Korea.

[Spider]

NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

South Korea does seem to have done quite well...but ya, it was all a monumental screw-up. :roll:

[flamboyant]

Yeah, I'm sure all those South Koreans are just dying to get across that border and enjoy that wonderful nightlife up North, where there's zero electricity and only a couple million starve on a good year. I'm sure they have no thanks whatsoever for the Americans who fought in the Korean war.

Good Lord, where did we find this guy?

[GermanMax]

flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: I'd just like to hear GermanMax explain to us how political change occurred from within in post-WWII German and Japan.

:lol:

I was referring to the history of the United States.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Germany and Japan weren't divided by religious ideologies. Germany was desperate for change before the war broke out, Hitler was a result of desperation.

So you forgot about the fact that the U.S. installed a Democracy in Germany after WWII or you were just totally ignorant of the fact?

No, I am not unaware of the fact. Had you learned a foreign language, lets say German, you would be able to compare German and American history books. Whereas German students are taught of German mistakes, all American students learn is how great this country is and they don't get a real sense of what went wrong (particularly in Viernam and the Koreas). The result: America is repeating its mistakes. How sad!

Germans are thankful for America and its foresight post WWII. However, the conditions were very different from Iraq. Americans have lost their great politicians and America has lost its ability to foresee consequences of its own actions.

[flamboyant]

GermanMax says:

Quote: Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within?

I guess by your definition, Germany is not a "true" Democracy, because that change certainly didn't come from within, pal.

[NAB]

flamboyant wrote: NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

:tu:

Seems as if they're not too big on teaching history in Germany these days. Or maybe GermanMax actually thinks the South Koreans aren't thankful as hell that the line was held and they didn't get swallowed up by the hell on earth that is North Korea.

I've been traveling to Seoul quite a bit recently on business and I've discussed this very issue with some South Koreans. The one's I've spoken to are quite vociferous in their thanks towards the US in that conflict, and I think they would hardly consider it a mistake. One only has to look a few miles north of Seoul to see the potential of what "could have been".

[GermanMax]

flamboyant wrote: NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

:tu:

Seems as if they're not too big on teaching history in Germany these days. Or maybe GermanMax actually thinks the South Koreans aren't thankful as hell that the line was held and they didn't get swallowed up by the hell on earth that is North Korea.

God, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. Now I have to explain American history to you?
How about this?
General McCarty was well into Northkorean territory and ready to take North Korea, when political whimps at the whitehouse got the ***** and asked him (against McCarthy's recommendation) to turn back to South Korea. The objective, by the way, was to take all of Korea. Why don't you ask how the North Koreans feel?

Okay, now you got your history lesson from a German. Next time pay better attention in school buddy.

[flamboyant]

In fact, if you think about that whole "reunification" thing, that change didn't come from within, either! Good Lord, if America hadn't dedicated itself to stopping the spread of the Soviet Union and it's puppet regimes, if America hadn't forced the collapse of the Soviet Union, you'd still have that freakin' wall up right now.

You ever think about that?

[flamboyant]

Quote: General McCarty was well into Northkorean territory and ready to take North Korea, when political whimps at the whitehouse got the ***** and asked him (against McCarthy's recommendation) to turn back to South Korea. The objective, by the way, was to take all of Korea.

Regardless of whether you think it was a given that we could have liberated all of Korea (which is bulls**t by the way, it wasn't as simple as we could have taken North Korea, but the White House said no) that still doesn't change the fact that ever soldier that served in that war and every soldier that died helped prevent the North from overrunning the South because without American intervention, that was a given.

[GermanMax]

flamboyant wrote: GermanMax says:

Quote: Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within?

I guess by your definition, Germany is not a "true" Democracy, because that change certainly didn't come from within, pal.

I have explained myself. Why don't we get back to the 3000 fallen American soldiers and 650,000 fallen Iraqis?

[Spider]

GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

:tu:

Seems as if they're not too big on teaching history in Germany these days. Or maybe GermanMax actually thinks the South Koreans aren't thankful as hell that the line was held and they didn't get swallowed up by the hell on earth that is North Korea.

God, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. Now I have to explain American history to you?
How about this?
General McCarty was well into Northkorean territory and ready to take North Korea, when political whimps at the whitehouse got the ***** and asked him (against McCarthy's recommendation) to turn back to South Korea. The objective, by the way, was to take all of Korea. Why don't you ask how the North Koreans feel?

Okay, now you got your history lesson from a German. Next time pay better attention in school buddy.

You have said nothing people werent already perfectly well aware of.

And I guess the fact that the south was saved means nothing? And I suppose getting into a full scale war with China would have been a better option as well?

We could have simply done nothing, and watched the whole region go to hell. Would that have been better?

[flamboyant]

So are you saying Japan isn't a "true" Democracy either?

[GermanMax]

flamboyant wrote: In fact, if you think about that whole "reunification" thing, that change didn't come from within, either! Good Lord, if America hadn't dedicated itself to stopping the spread of the Soviet Union and it's puppet regimes, if America hadn't forced the collapse of the Soviet Union, you'd still have that freakin' wall up right now.

You ever think about that?

Some Westgermans actually may prefer that. :wink:

The USSR was ready for change. The political leadership ready to let go. And, by the way, America is not the least bit concerned about other countries. America only takes care of its own interests, so don't give me this charity bullcrap.

[GermanMax]

Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: NAB wrote: GermanMax wrote: flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

Maybe you should ask someone from South Korea about that mistake.

:tu:

Seems as if they're not too big on teaching history in Germany these days. Or maybe GermanMax actually thinks the South Koreans aren't thankful as hell that the line was held and they didn't get swallowed up by the hell on earth that is North Korea.

God, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. Now I have to explain American history to you?
How about this?
General McCarty was well into Northkorean territory and ready to take North Korea, when political whimps at the whitehouse got the ***** and asked him (against McCarthy's recommendation) to turn back to South Korea. The objective, by the way, was to take all of Korea. Why don't you ask how the North Koreans feel?

Okay, now you got your history lesson from a German. Next time pay better attention in school buddy.

You have said nothing people werent already perfectly well aware of.

And I guess the fact that the south was saved means nothing? And I suppose getting into a full scale war with China would have been a better option as well?

We could have simply done nothing, and watched the whole region go to hell. Would that have been better?

We talked about the objective here ole buddy ole pal. Don't you downscale on me. Next thing you know it will mean more that Saddam has been removed than having stabilized Iraq.

[flamboyant]

Let me just make it as simple as I can for you, okay GermanMax?

While you mock American efforts in fighting the Cold War, let me remind you what those efforts resulted in:



Let me just make it perfectly clear.

No America fighting the Cold War and you'd still have this today:



America and its brave soldiers sacrificing everything to fight the Cold War:

[GermanMax]

flamboyant wrote: Let me just make it as simple as I can for you, okay GermanMax?

While you mock American efforts in fighting the Cold War, let me remind you what those efforts resulted in:



Let me just make it perfectly clear.

No America fighting the Cold War and you'd still have this today:



America and its brave soldiers sacrificing everything to fight the Cold War:



Don't put generalizations into my mouth. Yes, American soldiers are brave, yes taking on the Soviets was brave...

What I am critizicing is that there is no need for America to always put its nose into other countries business. There, however, is a need for America to do its homework and make sure the results of war are not as disastrous as in Vietnam or Iraq. Also, America has primarily its own interest at heart. Iraq wasn't invaded because of evil Saddam, after all he didn't seem to be that evil when Donald went on a date with him...

[flamboyant]

But hey, it's easy to sit on the sidelines of history and laugh and complain about every mistake America made IN WINNING THE COLD WAR.

[sLiPpY]

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Yup, Powell is the front man that lied to the UN.