Political Crossfire Forums

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4237

Cause there has been a kind of Religious Revolution in this Country where Christians think the time is now to stand up and fight. They feel threatened by secularism, and now that people has risen up to protest this religious push it has only emboldened them. This urgency on thier part has been expolited by the powers that be.

Mr. Sunshine · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1324

Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Kilo Tango · Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 8226 Location: D.C.

JoeBen81 wrote: Cause there has been a kind of Religious Revolution in this Country where Christians think the time is now to stand up and fight. They feel threatened by secularism, and now that people has risen up to protest this religious push it has only emboldened them. This urgency on thier part has been expolited by the powers that be. HUH?

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4237

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

That's right, Sh!t on your golden boy now that he doesn't agree.

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4237

Kilo Tango wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Cause there has been a kind of Religious Revolution in this Country where Christians think the time is now to stand up and fight. They feel threatened by secularism, and now that people has risen up to protest this religious push it has only emboldened them. This urgency on thier part has been expolited by the powers that be. HUH?
Exactly. 8:)

Kilo Tango · Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 8226 Location: D.C.

GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry: Umm, where in that article does Powell say anything about democracy in Iraq?

Spider · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:40 am Post subject:

GermanMax wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

Its far too easy to bash on Bush without reducing ourselves to using century-old cowboy stereotypes. Texas is just one more state in the union. No biggie.

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

Its far too easy to bash on Bush without reducing ourselves to using century-old cowboy stereotypes. Texas is just one more state in the union. No biggie.

What else do you want to hear? that he went into Iraq without any foresight of what may happen after Saddam is renoved? That the current situation could have been foreseen? There are plenty of intellectuals in the USA who are specialized in middle eastern politics and know a bunch about religious groups in Iraq. None of that was considered. But why would a non-intellectual listen to a group of intellectuals. God what a mess you guy created there. Another lost war, another mess, nothing learned from Vietnam. Good going!

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4237

GermanMax wrote: Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

Its far too easy to bash on Bush without reducing ourselves to using century-old cowboy stereotypes. Texas is just one more state in the union. No biggie.

What else do you want to hear? that he went into Iraq without any foresight of what may happen after Saddam is renoved? That the current situation could have been foreseen? There are plenty of intellectuals in the USA who are specialized in middle eastern politics and know a bunch about religious groups in Iraq. None of that was considered. But why would a non-intellectual listen to a group of intellectuals. God what a mess you guy created there. Another lost war, another mess, nothing learned from Vietnam. Good going!
I hear ya, but your being condesening and it only dulls your point. I know it's hard to removed anger and emotion when it was such a blunder, but they will never see it that way. Try addressing current issues that are still being decided, cause this history lesson is in the eye of the beholder.

Spider · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject:

JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

Its far too easy to bash on Bush without reducing ourselves to using century-old cowboy stereotypes. Texas is just one more state in the union. No biggie.

What else do you want to hear? that he went into Iraq without any foresight of what may happen after Saddam is renoved? That the current situation could have been foreseen? There are plenty of intellectuals in the USA who are specialized in middle eastern politics and know a bunch about religious groups in Iraq. None of that was considered. But why would a non-intellectual listen to a group of intellectuals. God what a mess you guy created there. Another lost war, another mess, nothing learned from Vietnam. Good going!
I hear ya, but your being condesening and it only dulls your point. I know it's hard to removed anger and emotion when it was such a blunder, but they will never see it that way. Try addressing current issues that are still being decided, cause this history lesson is in the eye of the beholder.

I second that. You can address a topic in a manner that avoids stereotyping and condescention. I am perfectly happy to debate a topic with you, but please avoid trashing on my country, and I'll avoid trashing on yours. Then we are all happier, and make just as much progress in terms of debate. Probably more.

Dookiestix · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject:

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:
Oh, so now we should've invaded Iraq 15 years ago?

:gdgf:

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

Kilo Tango wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry: Umm, where in that article does Powell say anything about democracy in Iraq?

political decisions will or will not lead to democracy :wink:

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

Spider wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Who exactly is Powell anymore? Hey, aren't you the guy that held the bottle of baby powder in front of the U.N. Security Council and had us invade Iraq when we should've done it 15 years ago? :lol:

Good point. But contrary to Texas George he is able to admit mistakes and correct his views. :wink:

Its far too easy to bash on Bush without reducing ourselves to using century-old cowboy stereotypes. Texas is just one more state in the union. No biggie.

What else do you want to hear? that he went into Iraq without any foresight of what may happen after Saddam is renoved? That the current situation could have been foreseen? There are plenty of intellectuals in the USA who are specialized in middle eastern politics and know a bunch about religious groups in Iraq. None of that was considered. But why would a non-intellectual listen to a group of intellectuals. God what a mess you guy created there. Another lost war, another mess, nothing learned from Vietnam. Good going!
I hear ya, but your being condesening and it only dulls your point. I know it's hard to removed anger and emotion when it was such a blunder, but they will never see it that way. Try addressing current issues that are still being decided, cause this history lesson is in the eye of the beholder.

I second that. You can address a topic in a manner that avoids stereotyping and condescention. I am perfectly happy to debate a topic with you, but please avoid trashing on my country, and I'll avoid trashing on yours. Then we are all happier, and make just as much progress in terms of debate. Probably more.

I agree that was stupid. I apoligize. I was just curious what reaction I would get. I am also writing in the German Forum and as you probably know Germans a rough when it comes to discussions. :wink: In this Forum I will have to adjust my style.

flamboyant · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 1881

GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

Dookiestix

flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.
So why the blind assumption that it would work in the case of Iraq when the opposite is taking place? It is already conventional wisdom that Iraq will never experience an American "installed" Democracy, let alone any other type of democracy whatsoever.

flamboyant · Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 1881

I'd just like to hear GermanMax explain to us how political change occurred from within in post-WWII German and Japan.

:lol:

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

flamboyant wrote: GermanMax wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html

Dont' say... :cry:

Please somebody tell why so many Americans continue to believe that America needs to spread democracy around the world. Shouldn't Americans know that true political change occurs from within? :cry:

:rofl:

And you call yourself "German"-Max.

:rofl:

I'm sorry, not too up on your post-WWII history, are you?

Political change occurs from within?

I mean, it was only 60 years ago that America installed Democracies in Germany and Japan. You as GermanMax, or as anyone with even the slightest grasp of 20th century history should be aware of that.

At least we have learned from our mistakes.

What about Korea, Vietnam, etc. Not the brightest, are you? :-D

GermanMax · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 116 Location: Cincinnati

flamboyant wrote: I'd just like to hear GermanMax explain to us how political change occurred from within in post-WWII German and Japan.

:lol:

I was referring to the history of the United States.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Germany and Japan weren't divided by religious ideologies. Germany was desperate for change before the war broke out, Hitler was a result of desperation.