Political Crossfire Forums

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Darfur: US Denies Counterterrorism Needs Impeading Efforts
Quote: President Bush's Special Envoy for Sudan has denied an allegation that the counterterrorism cooperation between Khartoum and Washington is impeding U.S. efforts to stop the genocide in Darfur.

In Sunday's Washington Post newspaper, the former director of African affairs in the Clinton administration's National Security Council, John Prendergast, claims that 400,000 people have died in Darfur. He alleges the United States has not pressured Khartoum to stop the genocide because the Bush administration does not want to jeopardize what Prendergast says is a deepening intelligence-sharing relationship with the Sudanese government. In the early 1990s, Al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden lived in Sudan, and that country has been a valuable source of information about terrorist activity since the attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001.
~snip~


Rebels moving toward Chad capital, diplomat says ~ November 26, 2006
Quote: A Chadian rebel column moved westward on the main highway toward the capital N'Djamena on Sunday, hours after the army retook the eastern town of Abeche, a French diplomat said.

The diplomat confirmed the French embassy in N'Djamena had issued a message to its citizens informing them that a rebel convoy was moving toward the city through Batha province -- which would put the convoy at least 250 km (150 miles) from N'Djamena.

Chad: Kill Them All
Quote: “If I had a gun,” Ismail Hassan said venomously from his hospital bed, “I would shoot Arabs.”

“Surely not women and children?” I remonstrated.

“Every one of them,” Ismail snarled.

Ismail is a 15-year-old boy, and that conversation underscores how Chad is falling off a cliff, with escalating hatreds, violence and insecurity. He is a member of one of the black African tribes now being hunted down by the Sudanese-sponsored janjaweed Arab militia, at first in Darfur alone and now in Chad as well.
~snip~


Protect Darfur: Tomorrow Is Too Late

~@~

Would the United States Government be complicit in Genocide due to their other goal of fighting a War on Terror ?

Should the United States Government commit a military force equal to the task
of quelling the Genocide that is taking place in Darfur ?

WHY would the United States Government not take action in this Genocide yet,
use Genocide as a pretext to the invasion and occupation of Iraq ?

Has our military commitment in Iraq weakened our response to stop a Genocide elsewhere in the world?
In my opinion, the answer is YES

[The dane]

Things like this and Rwanda prove beyond a doubt USA's foreign politics has never been about anything so noble as helping the civilian population in other countries, whatever some may claim about the motives for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sadly though the European countries are no better on this one, we could send an EU force if we really wanted too, but so far it hasn't happened.

Ofcourse stopping it is no simple task, Sudan is a huge country with very little infrastructure and the government being partly responsible for these attrocities wont cooperate. But we should at the very least be making more of an effort, get some damn peacekeepers in there already !

[agentkgb]

The dane wrote: get some damn peacekeepers in there already !
I heard that a week or two ago Sudan's government (finally) agreed to accept UN peacekeepers into the country.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

The dane wrote: Things like this and Rwanda prove beyond a doubt USA's foreign politics has never been about anything so noble as helping the civilian population in other countries, whatever some may claim about the motives for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sadly though the European countries are no better on this one, we could send an EU force if we really wanted too, but so far it hasn't happened.

Ofcourse stopping it is no simple task, Sudan is a huge country with very little infrastructure and the government being partly responsible for these attrocities wont cooperate. But we should at the very least be making more of an effort, get some damn peacekeepers in there already !

At the ripe old age of 48 and in less than optimum health, I would volunteer to be a peacekeeper for this cause.

[Ozzone]

What is Sweden doing about it?

(I heard it was the "greatest" nation on earth in another thread)

[micfranklin]

Anyone seen "Blood Diamond" yet?

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Ozzone wrote: What is Sweden doing about it?

(I heard it was the "greatest" nation on earth in another thread)

Sweden to help Darfur peace efforts
Quote: Sweden’s government on Thursday said it would give 15 million kronor (1.9 million dollars, 1.6 million euros) to boost peace efforts in the crisis-ridden Darfur region in Sudan.

“The aid will go in part to the African Union’s efforts in Darfur (AMIS) and in part to the political peace negotiations being held in Abuja” in Nigeria, the government said in a statement.

Successive rounds of AU-sponsored peace talks have so far failed to end the civil war in the region, which since February 2003 has left some 300,000 people dead and displaced about 2 million, with more than 200,000 people seeking refuge in neighboring Chad.
~snip~
The money donated by Sweden on Nov. 3 comes in addition to 7 million kronor already sent to AMIS and the negotiators in Abuja. The Scandinavian country also has sent in peace negotiation advisers and, as part of European Union-wide support, contributed military experts and police officers.

“Sweden hereby is giving yet another concrete contribution to the AU’s efforts to promote security in Darfur,” Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said in the statement, adding that Sweden would also push for women to participate in the Darfur negotiations.


Sweden and Norway urge Sudan to allow U.N. peacekeepers in Darfur
Quote: STOCKHOLM, Sweden Sweden and Norway on Monday called for increased pressure on Sudan's government to allow a U.N. peacekeeping force in the country, saying both countries were ready to send troops to Darfur.

Swedish officials said last week it wants to contribute nearly 200 troops to an international force in Darfur — although the Sudanese government has rejected a U.N. Security Council resolution for the deployment of a 20,000-strong U.N. force.

Swedish Foreign Minister Jan Eliasson said Monday that Sweden "has definitely not given up our plans on sending troops to Sudan," despite the Sudanese reluctance.

"What we need now is international pressure on the Sudanese government to approve this force to be deployed," Eliasson said after meeting with his Norwegian and Finnish counterparts in Stockholm.

Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere told Swedish news agency TT Friday that Norway and Sweden started preparing for a mission to Darfur several months ago — which prevented the countries sending ground troops to Lebanon to uphold a cease-fire following fighting between Israel and Hezbollah guerillas. Both countries have said they will sent navy ships to help patrol the Lebanese coast instead.

Stoere said Monday that Norway "stands by our promise to prepare a mission" to Sudan.
~snip~


Swedish police to Darfur
Quote: "EU support for the African Union's mission is crucial to its ability to stabilise the situation in Darfur and thereby bring an end to the killing. I am pleased that Sweden can contribute to this mission," says Carin Jämtin, Minister for International Development Cooperation.

In addition to police advisers, civilian support to the African Union includes measures to educate police officers and also development assistance in areas such as human rights, the situation of women and children and other humanitarian aid.

The Swedish contribution to the EU effort already includes a number of military experts.


Sweden to support AU mission to Darfur
Quote: Sweden will support the African Union mission to Sudan by offering military experts and officers as part of a European Union effort in the wartorn region of Darfur, the defense ministry said on Wednesday.
"The government has today decided that the armed forces can make military experts available to the African Union as part of the European Union’s effort to support Sudan," the defense ministry said in a statement.

Sweden will also make "staff officers available to the European Union for the coordination of the support to the African Mission in Sudan (AMIS)," it said.


What are TEXANS doing about it?

[Chingu]

Wouldn't it be an illegal war based on lies if we went into Sudan?

In all seriousness, the situation in Sudan is horrifying and gut wrenching. But, unlike Iraq and the greater war on terror, it is not a direct national security issue to the level that would force our hand.

Not so seriously - why on Earth do any liberals think we could succeed in Sudan when they've already declared Iraq a lost cause. This just doesn't make any sense. Please liberals - explain your thinking to me - because I don't get it....

[FCTE]

Africa is a black hole for tax dollars.

Shouldn't it be Europe's problem? Their empires f#cked it up.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Chingu wrote: Wouldn't it be an illegal war based on lies if we went into Sudan?

In all seriousness, the situation in Sudan is horrifying and gut wrenching. But, unlike Iraq and the greater war on terror, it is not a direct national security issue to the level that would force our hand.

Not so seriously - why on Earth do any liberals think we could succeed in Sudan when they've already declared Iraq a lost cause. This just doesn't make any sense. Please liberals - explain your thinking to me - because I don't get it....
Chingu wrote:
But, unlike Iraq and the greater war on terror, it is not a direct national security issue to the level that would force our hand.....

Darfur: US Denies Counterterrorism Needs Impeading Efforts
Quote: President Bush's Special Envoy for Sudan has denied an allegation that the counterterrorism cooperation between Khartoum and Washington is impeding U.S. efforts to stop the genocide in Darfur.

In Sunday's Washington Post newspaper, the former director of African affairs in the Clinton administration's National Security Council, John Prendergast, claims that 400,000 people have died in Darfur. He alleges the United States has not pressured Khartoum to stop the genocide because the Bush administration does not want to jeopardize what Prendergast says is a deepening intelligence-sharing relationship with the Sudanese government. In the early 1990s, Al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden lived in Sudan, and that country has been a valuable source of information about terrorist activity since the attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001.
~snip~


Yes, appeasing those who harbored Osama bin Laden is much more important than saving the lives of innocents. :gdgf:

[Ozzone]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Ozzone wrote: What is Sweden doing about it?

(I heard it was the "greatest" nation on earth in another thread)

Sweden to help Darfur peace efforts
Quote: Sweden’s government on Thursday said it would give 15 million kronor (1.9 million dollars, 1.6 million euros) to boost peace efforts in the crisis-ridden Darfur region in Sudan.

“The aid will go in part to the African Union’s efforts in Darfur (AMIS) and in part to the political peace negotiations being held in Abuja” in Nigeria, the government said in a statement.

Successive rounds of AU-sponsored peace talks have so far failed to end the civil war in the region, which since February 2003 has left some 300,000 people dead and displaced about 2 million, with more than 200,000 people seeking refuge in neighboring Chad.
~snip~
The money donated by Sweden on Nov. 3 comes in addition to 7 million kronor already sent to AMIS and the negotiators in Abuja. The Scandinavian country also has sent in peace negotiation advisers and, as part of European Union-wide support, contributed military experts and police officers.

“Sweden hereby is giving yet another concrete contribution to the AU’s efforts to promote security in Darfur,” Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said in the statement, adding that Sweden would also push for women to participate in the Darfur negotiations.


Sweden and Norway urge Sudan to allow U.N. peacekeepers in Darfur
Quote: STOCKHOLM, Sweden Sweden and Norway on Monday called for increased pressure on Sudan's government to allow a U.N. peacekeeping force in the country, saying both countries were ready to send troops to Darfur.

Swedish officials said last week it wants to contribute nearly 200 troops to an international force in Darfur — although the Sudanese government has rejected a U.N. Security Council resolution for the deployment of a 20,000-strong U.N. force.

Swedish Foreign Minister Jan Eliasson said Monday that Sweden "has definitely not given up our plans on sending troops to Sudan," despite the Sudanese reluctance.

"What we need now is international pressure on the Sudanese government to approve this force to be deployed," Eliasson said after meeting with his Norwegian and Finnish counterparts in Stockholm.

Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere told Swedish news agency TT Friday that Norway and Sweden started preparing for a mission to Darfur several months ago — which prevented the countries sending ground troops to Lebanon to uphold a cease-fire following fighting between Israel and Hezbollah guerillas. Both countries have said they will sent navy ships to help patrol the Lebanese coast instead.

Stoere said Monday that Norway "stands by our promise to prepare a mission" to Sudan.
~snip~


Swedish police to Darfur
Quote: "EU support for the African Union's mission is crucial to its ability to stabilise the situation in Darfur and thereby bring an end to the killing. I am pleased that Sweden can contribute to this mission," says Carin Jämtin, Minister for International Development Cooperation.

In addition to police advisers, civilian support to the African Union includes measures to educate police officers and also development assistance in areas such as human rights, the situation of women and children and other humanitarian aid.

The Swedish contribution to the EU effort already includes a number of military experts.


Sweden to support AU mission to Darfur
Quote: Sweden will support the African Union mission to Sudan by offering military experts and officers as part of a European Union effort in the wartorn region of Darfur, the defense ministry said on Wednesday.
"The government has today decided that the armed forces can make military experts available to the African Union as part of the European Union’s effort to support Sudan," the defense ministry said in a statement.

Sweden will also make "staff officers available to the European Union for the coordination of the support to the African Mission in Sudan (AMIS)," it said.


Good for them.

Quote: What are TEXANS doing about it?

As much as they can I guess.

[url=http://www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2006/05/01/StateLocal/Protesters.At.State.Capitol.Support.End.To.Genocide.In.Darfur.Region.Of.Sudan-1896932.shtml?norewrite200611261519&sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com]Protesters at state Capitol support end to genocide in Darfur region of Sudan
Rally draws attention to 400,000 killings in war-torn region[/url]

[Kumar]

What I find interesting is how Darfur attracts so much attention while the conflict in Congo, which has killed 4 million and continues to kill 1000 a day, is completely ignored.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Kumar wrote: What I find interesting is how Darfur attracts so much attention while the conflict in Congo, which has killed 4 million and continues to kill 1000 a day, is completely ignored.

I quite agree ! Maybe we should write the President asking him to spread Democracy in Africa ? :wink:

[FCTE]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Maybe we should write the President asking him to spread Democracy in Africa ? :wink:

There are no gains, cash or prizes, in helping Africa. It's a waste of time.

[cap'n queasy]

The second the US moved into Sudan all you guys would be crying about how the big bad US was pushing those poor little Sudanese terrorists around.

[lovebush]

cap'n queasy wrote: The second the US moved into Sudan all you guys would be crying about how the big bad US was pushing those poor little Sudanese terrorists around.

yup! Oh you're just making them angry, they'll just use this as a recruiting tool! there's no way to win this kind of war! :roll:

[Ozzone]

cap'n queasy wrote: The second the US moved into Sudan all you guys would be crying about how the big bad US was pushing those poor little Sudanese terrorists around.

Not to mention invading a "sovereign nation". We've caught enough griping about invading a "sovereign nation" that was violating a cease-fire and U.N. resolutions and now they want us to do it again?

[Fionn mac Cumhaill]

Would it be wise for the US to adopt yet another chaotic situation and take nothing but flack for doing it? NO

Let France handle it.


Where are all these countries that have been so critical of US meddling?
Don't they have resources?
Why aren't they in Darfur showing us the way?

[cap'n queasy]

Ozzone wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: The second the US moved into Sudan all you guys would be crying about how the big bad US was pushing those poor little Sudanese terrorists around.

Not to mention invading a "sovereign nation". We've caught enough griping about invading a "sovereign nation" that was violating a cease-fire and U.N. resolutions and now they want us to do it again?

Yes, it is ridiculous.

I still think the US should do something there anyway, screw'em if they don't like it. We should arm the resistence, or something. Possible a good ol' carpet bombing to help them out some. The Sudanese rebels are willing to fight themselves, and they have been taking Sudan's army and militias down a notch lately, a little help and I think they could overthrow the government there.

[Revenant]

How about we don't. How about we let other countries deal with their own damn problems and stay the hell away.