Political Crossfire Forums

[GermanMax]

Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: NAB wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: Stratovarious wrote: Bringing back sadam is not the cheapest way, unless you dont shudder at the cost of another hundreds and thousands of lives. The best way: America needs to stay on track and nuetralize the threat in the area, The cheapest way; To allow them to have a democracy but one other than the representative democracy that we are trying to set up. There are other forms of democracy that would be more effective.. its truly a miracle that America has survived as a Rep. Dem. But, no i dont think there are any benefits to giving Iraq back to sadam. Hypothetical or not

There is absolutely no solution to this problem. Withdrawal would mean total chaos in Iraq, more troops an increase in Terrorist activity and continuous violence.
When do Amerians finally understand that the world doesn't want them to impose their democracy on other countries.

Iraq-another failure America has to live with, another lost war. Nothing learned after the Vietnam war. Good going!

Maybe if you made your font size even bigger, more people would agree.

At least they're hedging their bets by posting the same comment in multiple topics. Quantity has a quality all it's own. :lol:

Especially when talking to a group of people who lack the ability ro reflect on their own mistakes. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Deep down, intellectually, do you honestly believe that group A has more ability to reflect on past mistakes than group B, just because of which set of imaginary lines they were born in?

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Nobody hates America. America is a wonderful country with wonderful people. We are discussing politics not personal issues. :wink:

[Spider]

JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote:

Well, I would say America lost as many as Germany (objective in the Koreas wasn't met, objective in Vietnam wasn't met, objective in Iraq wasn't met). Oooops, America lost more wars than Germany. So soooooryy.


I could say the obvious...... but I'll take the high road.

Why bother? I already tried that in other threads...some people are open to reasonable debate...some arent. Some just have some pent up anger they need to spew out all over an internet forum...

I think we are all guilty of spewing pent up anger from time to time, expecially when your still in your first 40 posts. Give him a chance, I was the same why at first, and now look at the beautiful flower of political insight that I've become. :-D

:lol: I lost my political flower long ago, man.

[JoeBen81]

Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote:

Well, I would say America lost as many as Germany (objective in the Koreas wasn't met, objective in Vietnam wasn't met, objective in Iraq wasn't met). Oooops, America lost more wars than Germany. So soooooryy.


I could say the obvious...... but I'll take the high road.

Why bother? I already tried that in other threads...some people are open to reasonable debate...some arent. Some just have some pent up anger they need to spew out all over an internet forum...

I think we are all guilty of spewing pent up anger from time to time, expecially when your still in your first 40 posts. Give him a chance, I was the same why at first, and now look at the beautiful flower of political insight that I've become. :-D

Again, no anger here. Just wanted to make a bold statement. If you noticed, I am not critizicing the war in Iraq per se. My brother in law just came back from Iraq. Flew helicopters there. Wonderful people in the military. I am frustrated with the neocons who are absolutely resistant to change, resistant to reflect on their own policies, etc. No German hates America, they are critical of Americas foreign policies, but they don't hate...

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

[perdidochas]

Vexillum wrote: Commiebastage wrote: Eventually people get frustrated and start fighting, then the "hated" dictator of old comes back,

I don't think Saddam was half as hated by Iraqis as Americans think. And, what low opinion of Saddam Iraqis had, it wouldn't have been that low if the US had worked constructively with Saddam instead of the US trying to make the Iraqi people suffer and turn against Saddam.

It depends on which Iraqis. I think the Shiites did hate Saddam, as did the Kurds. The Sunnis did probably like him, but why shouldn't they, as they got more privileges than the rest.

Working with the devil doesn't work.

[perdidochas]

BornedAgainandAgain wrote: Kumar wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Kumar wrote: The Comrade wrote: BornedAgainandAgain wrote:

A good percentage of Iraqi people might love that. Those terrible saddam days are looking more and more like the good ole days to them.


mhm.

i bet jews think back on the holocaust as the good 'ole days as well. or russians looking back at those golden years of stalin and the gulags.
Well, actually...

-74% of Russians miss the Soviet Union
-Stalin was voted the fourth greatest man of all time (because he "raised the country")
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20040501facomment83302/richard-pipes/flight-from-freedom-what-russians-think-and-want.html

Stalin is indeed more popular in Russia, than Bush is in America.
It's very likely, mostly from nostalgia. Russians miss their superpower status and want it back.

LOL, and the iraqis miss their electricity and want it back

Besides Baghdad, the rest of Iraq has at least as much electricity as it had before (admittedly, that's not saying much).

[NAB]

GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

It's called the ebb and flow of politics and fear. It takes a while for something as massive as public opinion to be turned in a different direction. Inertia is like that.

[Spider]

GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote:

Well, I would say America lost as many as Germany (objective in the Koreas wasn't met, objective in Vietnam wasn't met, objective in Iraq wasn't met). Oooops, America lost more wars than Germany. So soooooryy.


I could say the obvious...... but I'll take the high road.

Why bother? I already tried that in other threads...some people are open to reasonable debate...some arent. Some just have some pent up anger they need to spew out all over an internet forum...

I think we are all guilty of spewing pent up anger from time to time, expecially when your still in your first 40 posts. Give him a chance, I was the same why at first, and now look at the beautiful flower of political insight that I've become. :-D

Again, no anger here. Just wanted to make a bold statement. If you noticed, I am not critizicing the war in Iraq per se. My brother in law just came back from Iraq. Flew helicopters there. Wonderful people in the military. I am frustrated with the neocons who are absolutely resistant to change, resistant to reflect on their own policies, etc. No German hates America, they are critical of Americas foreign policies, but they don't hate...

I understand that...and perhaps I am a bit hypersenstive of it; i do after all spend half my time on this forum battling this sort of thing.

And as far as the republicans go, the fact that they have lost their position of power in congress is a testament to the rejection of their policies by the voting public. We dont like them either, otherwise they would still be in power. But we kicked them out.

I guess what I'm saying is be careful with your generalizations...they have been incorrect so far. Although I am sure we agree on many issues.

[JoeBen81]

GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

[Spider]

GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

I think we came to that conclusion long ago. People opposed this war before it even started.

[GermanMax]

[quote="Spider"] GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote:

Well, I would say America lost as many as Germany (objective in the Koreas wasn't met, objective in Vietnam wasn't met, objective in Iraq wasn't met). Oooops, America lost more wars than Germany. So soooooryy.


I could say the obvious...... but I'll take the high road.

Why bother? I already tried that in other threads...some people are open to reasonable debate...some arent. Some just have some pent up anger they need to spew out all over an internet forum...

I think we are all guilty of spewing pent up anger from time to time, expecially when your still in your first 40 posts. Give him a chance, I was the same why at first, and now look at the beautiful flower of political insight that I've become. :-D

Again, no anger here. Just wanted to make a bold statement. If you noticed, I am not critizicing the war in Iraq per se. My brother in law just came back from Iraq. Flew helicopters there. Wonderful people in the military. I am frustrated with the neocons who are absolutely resistant to change, resistant to reflect on their own policies, etc. No German hates America, they are critical of Americas foreign policies, but they don't hate...

I think so to. :wink:

I guess generalizations aim at the majority. After all, this is a democracy, the majority decides. Congress gave power to the President, Congress represents the American people.

I understand that...and perhaps I am a bit hypersenstive of it; i do after all spend half my time on this forum battling this sort of thing.

And as far as the republicans go, the fact that they have lost their position of power in congress is a testament to the rejection of their policies by the voting public. We dont like them either, otherwise they would still be in power. But we kicked them out.

I guess what I'm saying is be careful with your generalizations...they have been incorrect so far. Although I am sure we agree on many issues.[/quote]

[GermanMax]

Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

I think we came to that conclusion long ago. People opposed this war before it even started.

Than why so little opposition? In Germany people would not have stopped demonstrating until a change would have occured. I didn't see any people on the streets here. Well, except for a few ...

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

None taken. You will be surprised how Germans beat themselves up over Hitler. But we have learned from our mistakes, something I wish I could say about America.

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

None taken. You will be surprised how Germans beat themselves up over Hitler. But we have learned from our mistakes, something I wish I could say about America.

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

None taken. You will be surprised how Germans beat themselves up over Hitler. But we have learned from our mistakes, something I wish I could say about America.

[GermanMax]

JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

None taken. You will be surprised how Germans beat themselves up over Hitler. But we have learned from our mistakes, something I wish I could say about America.

[Spider]

GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Seriously, no offence, but surly a German can understand this more than most.

None taken. You will be surprised how Germans beat themselves up over Hitler. But we have learned from our mistakes, something I wish I could say about America.

Well, I suppose if the US had ever been militarily defeated....crushed, even, as opposed to failing to achieve certain goals in the context of a foriegn "police action", perhaps we would have some shared perspective.

Bottom line is the US can screw up in these types of fights, just as many other nations also have, and then shrug it off and go home. Failure to achieve objectives in Korea or Vietnam has not resulted in the defeat of the US....just a lot of pointless death and expense...although as previously pointed out, the S Koreans have a vibrant and successful country due to the actions in Korea.

[Spider]

GermanMax wrote: Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

I think we came to that conclusion long ago. People opposed this war before it even started.

Than why so little opposition? In Germany people would not have stopped demonstrating until a change would have occured. I didn't see any people on the streets here. Well, except for a few ...

People protesting in the streets does not remove a president from office. All it does is create a lot of traffic jams and litter. The method for the removal of a president is written into the US government, and we do not have the required majority for an impeachment. And he sure as hell isn't going to resign.

We are stuck with him. Unless you are suggesting an armed revolution and civil war...

[GermanMax]

Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: Spider wrote: GermanMax wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Spider wrote:

One thing I am certainly beginning to suspect is that the true feelings of Americans about this war are not being represented overseas..afterall, its much easier to carry on with this fashionable anti-american philosophy if you are led to believe that we are all a bunch of war mongering mindless followers of party lines.

Great post. People in other counties need to realsize that the MAJORITY of American's don't agree with the direction this admin has taken us.

Yes, now they don't. However, the war is several years old and people in other countries don't understand why it took you guys such a long time to come to that conclusion.

I think we came to that conclusion long ago. People opposed this war before it even started.

Than why so little opposition? In Germany people would not have stopped demonstrating until a change would have occured. I didn't see any people on the streets here. Well, except for a few ...

People protesting in the streets does not remove a president from office. All it does is create a lot of traffic jams and litter. The method for the removal of a president is written into the US government, and we do not have the required majority for an impeachment. And he sure as hell isn't going to resign.

We are stuck with him. Unless you are suggesting an armed revolution and civil war...

Nope. You crazy? Next thing I know the FBI will show up. :wink: I am also a believer in democracy.