Political Crossfire Forums

[JLB]

I typically don't get into fights, probably because I'm a really mellow guy, but I project self confidence and awareness of my surroundings. I always look every person in a room in the eye when I enter, and I have no problem staring a potential threat. I think that people who are looking for trouble can find it, but those who are looking for weakness are easily dissuaded if you show them an inclination to stand your ground, and eye contact is the first key.

Case in point. I nearly always carry a firearm, but on a trip to New York about 6 years ago (pre-9-11) I was at a convention, and I didn't feel it was a good idea to bring a gun. I did pack my Cold Steel Defender, which is one of the meanest close-in weapons I can imagine. It's a razor sharp push dagger witha Kraton "T" grip, and is dual edged. It's very compact, and conceals easily.

They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:






I was in the Times Square area, and had about an 8 block walk back to my hotel, and I noticed a guy following me. I switched sides of the street, and he did as well, and was back about 45 yards behind me. I was heading towards a seedier looking area, so I saw a potential problem. I switched sides of the street again, but placed a van in between us, and I reversed direction, so that by the time he crossed to catch up with me, I was standing right where he came over. My blade was out, but held in a reverse grip so he couldn't see it. He was really startled to see me standing there, and his only option was to attack me at that point, where I was ready, and had suprised him, or keep on walking. I said "How ya doing?" and smiled, and he kept right on going by me.

He'd probably mugged lots of people before, but his plan fell apart when I took the element of suprise away from him, and turned it around.

The things I've learned about fighting are this:

Never.....ever....ever fight with a tie on. I learned that lesson the hard way, although I did eventually break his nose. At the first sign of trouble, off comes the tie.

Nearly every fight ends up on the ground. Having wrestled in high school, I know that longer arms of opponents make great levers to use against them, if only you know where to place your fulcrum point.

Most guys can't fight longer than a minute on the ground before they are completely winded, so it's better to grind their face into the pavement than let them get tired trying to hit you. Ducking and punching back makes you winded, and that's not the goal. The goal is to make him tired, and hurting at the same time, which will lead to him backing off, or being so tired that you can then choke him out.

I avoid fighting by making myself appear to be aware, and by projecting the possibility that I am willing and able to escalate the conflict up to, and beyond what they had planned.

Sort of "MAD" Mutually Assured Destruction...... 8:)

[Tono]

JLB wrote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

Good grief, man. :lol:

[thundertaker]

thundertaker wrote: Let me get one thing straight with regards to your accusation that TJF Jitsu only trains you to deal with choreographed attacks:

At the lower grades, the attacks are specific and slowed down at first to get people used to where they need to go and what they need to do to counter certain attacks, eventually, it get's faster and becomes less predictable, until eventually, you are facing attacks were the tori is doing his or her best to lamp you (and if they succeed, you owe them a pint).
I got my first real taste of this on sunday and it scared the s**t out of me, but I managed to avoid getting battered, and use my training to deal with the situation, although my friend managed to get hit in the face twice (once by me) and he had to go to the hospital afterwards because somebody else drove his teeth through his lower lip. I've only just reached this stage of being put in the position of having to properly defend myself after approximately 700+ hours worth of training.
This style is used to teach unarmed combat to riot police. These people have practical experiance in dealing with hostile people armed with various nasty implements. They wouldn't be wasting their time with this art if they thought it was all glorified dancing.

Once you've learned the basic principles, you can apply them to a more realistic situation. Do you honestly mean to tell me that you start off by beating the living s**t out of begginers without even teaching them any techniques so that they can at least have a basic understanding about how to defend themselves first? Most people want to learn self-defence to avoid getting beaten up after all.......

[JLB]

Tono wrote: JLB wrote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

Good grief, man. :lol:

It's a formidable weapon. You can punch with it, slash in either direction, and it's very secure in the hand, Unless somebody gets you in a wristlock, you aren't going to lose control of it. By the time they do, they'll be a bloody mess.

The best part is the concealability. I usually carry it in the inner left breast pocket of my leather jacket, or in the small of my back. Either way it doesn't print, and people have looked straight at the grip and not realized it's a dagger.

Check out "Platoon", and you''ll see Charlie Sheen get knicked with one by Tom Berenger, even though they didn't make it back in the Vietnam days.

[Tono]

thundertaker wrote: Do you honestly mean to tell me that you start off by beating the living s**t out of begginers without even teaching them any techniques so that they can at least have a basic understanding about how to defend themselves first?

Beat the s**t out of them? Of course not.

thundertaker wrote: Most people want to learn self-defence to avoid getting beaten up after all.......

Well if you want to learn how to fly a plane, you won't do very well by riding roller skates for practice.

Paying for hundreds of hours of instruction without knowing what it's like to get a fat lip seems much more harsh to me. Talk about a false sense of security...

[JLB]

Hanging upside down off of his web gear.





That movie came out in 1986, so I've had my Defender at least that long.

[Tono]

I'm having Beverly Hills Cop 2/Billy Rosewood flashbacks. :lol:

[thundertaker]

Tono wrote:

Well if you want to learn how to fly a plane, you won't do very well by riding roller skates for practice.

Paying for hundreds of hours of instruction without knowing what it's like to get a fat lip seems much more harsh to me. Talk about a false sense of security...

I'll end up with a fat lip one of these days. So far, I've managed to come way with nothing more serious than a scratched knuckle and a bruised tongue.
Still, I'm glad they taught me how to defend myself before they started unleashing the dogs of war upon me. At least I have a rough idea of what I should do to avoid getting punched very hard in the face when someone is trying to do so.
Not everyone wants to have to learn the hard way.....

Besides, it's not as if they just hand out guns to new recruits in the army and point them in the direction of the enemy and tell them to get on with it. They actually train them first......

[Tono]

thundertaker wrote: Not everyone wants to have to learn the hard way.....

Yes. That's what seperates those who do, from those who don't.

thundertaker wrote: Besides, it's not as if they just hand out guns to new recruits in the army and point them in the direction of the enemy and tell them to get on with it. They actually train them first......

Have you heard the term "FNG" from Vietnam war movies? It was a label given to guys who just got into the war zone. They went through the training, but when it actually came down to fighting, they didn't know s**t.

[The Grandmaster]

JLB wrote: Tono wrote: JLB wrote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

Good grief, man. :lol:

It's a formidable weapon. You can punch with it, slash in either direction, and it's very secure in the hand, Unless somebody gets you in a wristlock, you aren't going to lose control of it. By the time they do, they'll be a bloody mess.

The best part is the concealability. I usually carry it in the inner left breast pocket of my leather jacket, or in the small of my back. Either way it doesn't print, and people have looked straight at the grip and not realized it's a dagger.

Check out "Platoon", and you''ll see Charlie Sheen get knicked with one by Tom Berenger, even though they didn't make it back in the Vietnam days.

I like it. I like it a lot. How much are they?

[thundertaker]

Tono wrote:

Yes. That's what seperates those who do, from those who don't.

It's not really neccessary though. Although the odd knock here and there is unavoidable, especially at the higher levels getting brutally pounded from the word go will scare off the average person (especially girls) who want to learn self-defence.
Martial arts and self-defence shouldn't just be for the meat-heads who enjoy pain......


thundertaker wrote:

Have you heard the term "FNG" from Vietnam war movies? It was a label given to guys who just got into the war zone. They went through the training, but when it actually came down to fighting, they didn't know s**t.

The training they receive is the bedrock upon which they can build experiance. It's very disingenious to suggest training is worthless.
Besides, as I've already mentioned, the training does get more realistic as you progress higher up the grades.......

[emerald]

Quote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

you'd be arrested with soemthing like that here! and i'd be glad :-D (not that u'd be arrested just that it's illegal to carry weapons like that ofcourse...)

[JLB]

The Grandmaster wrote: JLB wrote: Tono wrote: JLB wrote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

Good grief, man. :lol:

It's a formidable weapon. You can punch with it, slash in either direction, and it's very secure in the hand, Unless somebody gets you in a wristlock, you aren't going to lose control of it. By the time they do, they'll be a bloody mess.

The best part is the concealability. I usually carry it in the inner left breast pocket of my leather jacket, or in the small of my back. Either way it doesn't print, and people have looked straight at the grip and not realized it's a dagger.

Check out "Platoon", and you''ll see Charlie Sheen get knicked with one by Tom Berenger, even though they didn't make it back in the Vietnam days.

I like it. I like it a lot. How much are they?

The older "Defender" models are made in Japan and are AUS8 steel, with a leather sheath. They are pretty hard to find now, but you might be able to get one on Ebay for between $50-$100.

The new "Safekeeper II (not Peacekeeper, as I said above)" models are now made in Taiwan, and are supplied with a kydex sheath. They are 420 steel. Retail is in the $40-$70 range.


Cold Steel SAFEKEEPER Push dagger
3.75 in. bead blast T handle push knife, finished blade is made from 420 Sub Zero Quench stainless steel. 3.625 in. Black Kraton handle. 6.38 in. overall length. Includes SecureEx boot or belt sheath.
Weight: 1.00 lbs
$ 64.95

http://nicnac.net/index.html?target=p_379.html&lang=en-us

You can find one cheaper than that, and they also make a single edged version for states with laws against double edges.

They used to make an even longer version than I have, but it didn't conceal as well, and 3 1/4 inches is plenty.

I'd try and find a Japanese made one, if I were you.

[JLB]

emerald wrote: Quote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

you'd be arrested with soemthing like that here! and i'd be glad :-D (not that u'd be arrested just that it's illegal to carry weapons like that ofcourse...)

I've got a carry permit, but it doesn't extend to England, unfortunately.

They do make a very effective subsitute for this knife in high strength nylon, that would be very effective.


CS1392FPA FGX Push Blade I
Specifications:
Weight: 1.6 oz.
Thick: 6.5mm
Blade: 3 1/2"
Handle: 2 3/4” long
Material: Grivory with Kraton grip
Overall: 6 1/4"

MSRP: $14.99, Your cost $9.99
http://www.worldwideknives.com/COLDSTEEL/nightshade.html

[Protostar]

JLB wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: JLB wrote: Tono wrote: JLB wrote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

Good grief, man. :lol:

It's a formidable weapon. You can punch with it, slash in either direction, and it's very secure in the hand, Unless somebody gets you in a wristlock, you aren't going to lose control of it. By the time they do, they'll be a bloody mess.

The best part is the concealability. I usually carry it in the inner left breast pocket of my leather jacket, or in the small of my back. Either way it doesn't print, and people have looked straight at the grip and not realized it's a dagger.

Check out "Platoon", and you''ll see Charlie Sheen get knicked with one by Tom Berenger, even though they didn't make it back in the Vietnam days.

I like it. I like it a lot. How much are they?

The older "Defender" models are made in Japan and are AUS8 steel, with a leather sheath. They are pretty hard to find now, but you might be able to get one on Ebay for between $50-$100.

The new "Safekeeper II (not Peacekeeper, as I said above)" models are now made in Taiwan, and are supplied with a kydex sheath. They are 420 steel. Retail is in the $40-$70 range.


Cold Steel SAFEKEEPER Push dagger
3.75 in. bead blast T handle push knife, finished blade is made from 420 Sub Zero Quench stainless steel. 3.625 in. Black Kraton handle. 6.38 in. overall length. Includes SecureEx boot or belt sheath.
Weight: 1.00 lbs
$ 64.95

http://nicnac.net/index.html?target=p_379.html&lang=en-us

You can find one cheaper than that, and they also make a single edged version for states with laws against double edges.

They used to make an even longer version than I have, but it didn't conceal as well, and 3 1/4 inches is plenty.

I'd try and find a Japanese made one, if I were you.

Holy sh!t thats nice!! :tu: I'm going to pick up one of those and so I can carry it around campus as I walk at nights alot back and forth to the parking lot from the library.

[Poon]

JLB wrote:

http://nicnac.net/media/safekeep.jpg
Cold Steel SAFEKEEPER Push dagger
3.75 in. bead blast T handle push knife, finished blade is made from 420 Sub Zero Quench stainless steel. 3.625 in. Black Kraton handle. 6.38 in. overall length. Includes SecureEx boot or belt sheath.
Weight: 1.00 lbs
$ 64.95

http://nicnac.net/index.html?target=p_379.html&lang=en-us

You can find one cheaper than that, and they also make a single edged version for states with laws against double edges.

They used to make an even longer version than I have, but it didn't conceal as well, and 3 1/4 inches is plenty.

I'd try and find a Japanese made one, if I were you.
What the Heck? Sub Zero Quenched? I may not be a metallurgy specialist, but I've never heard of Sub-Zero Quenching. Wouldn't that cause the Steel to become too brittle?

[JLB]

Protostar wrote:
Holy sh!t thats nice!! :tu: I'm going to pick up one of those and so I can carry it around campus as I walk at nights alot back and forth to the parking lot from the library.

You want to see nice?

This is a one of a kind prototype shoulder rig made by Andrews Custom Leather, who I count as my favorite holster maker. He now includes this in his lineup now, after making mine, and also offers it for a Gerber blade.

This is a highly customized Colt Delta Elite 10mm by Cogan's Custom, and finished by Accurate Plating in matte hard chrome. I specified that I wanted to have my Cold Steel Master Tanto mounted vertically behind my spare magazines, to offset the weight of the gun, and to have as a handy backup. Knives don't run out of ammo... :wink:

The Master Tanto uses San Mai steel, which is a laminate of AUS8 steel sandwiching a carbon V center for the edge. That way is flexible, doesn't rust as easily as high carbon blades, and holds a razor sharp edge. The tanto design can pierce a car door without breaking it's tip.

The sheath also snaps off, so I can carry without the knife.

That's about $250 in leather, around $2k for the Delta Elite, and the Master Tanto retails for around $300, but you can find them cheaper.

Enjoy:









From his web site:


http://www.andrewsleather.com/

I can also carry my Novak Colt Commander in the same rig,

[JLB]

TwinkieDP wrote: JLB wrote:

http://nicnac.net/media/safekeep.jpg
Cold Steel SAFEKEEPER Push dagger
3.75 in. bead blast T handle push knife, finished blade is made from 420 Sub Zero Quench stainless steel. 3.625 in. Black Kraton handle. 6.38 in. overall length. Includes SecureEx boot or belt sheath.
Weight: 1.00 lbs
$ 64.95

http://nicnac.net/index.html?target=p_379.html&lang=en-us

You can find one cheaper than that, and they also make a single edged version for states with laws against double edges.

They used to make an even longer version than I have, but it didn't conceal as well, and 3 1/4 inches is plenty.

I'd try and find a Japanese made one, if I were you.
What the Heck? Sub Zero Quenched? I may not be a metallurgy specialist, but I've never heard of Sub-Zero Quenching. Wouldn't that cause the Steel to become too brittle?

Depends on the steel.


Quote: 420 Sub Zero Quench

Cold Steel® has always sub zero quenched the blades that we have manufactured in Japan, and we are now adding this often omitted, yet crucial, process to the heat treating sequence of the new blades we are making in Taiwan.

Typically, stainless steel blades suffer from retained austenite after they have been heated to critical temperature and then air or gas cooled. The big drawback of this procedure is that it doesn't get the blades cold enough to assure complete transformation from an austenite to martensite grain structure. Only by freezing-sub zero quenching-stainless blades to 120 degrees below Zero (Fahrenheit), will the austenite be completely transformed to martensite. This, in turn, assures the blade will be as hard, strong, and wear resistant as it can possibly be.

http://www.campingsurvival.com/abcolsteelkn.html

[The Grandmaster]

JLB wrote: emerald wrote: Quote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

you'd be arrested with soemthing like that here! and i'd be glad :-D (not that u'd be arrested just that it's illegal to carry weapons like that ofcourse...)

I've got a carry permit, but it doesn't extend to England, unfortunately.

How do I apply for a permit for one? Are they legal in Indiana.

JLB wrote: They do make a very effective subsitute for this knife in high strength nylon, that would be very effective.

Nice. Even made you nylon, would this matter? Would it still be as sturdy as you would ever need it to be for practical use?

[JLB]

[quote="The Grandmaster"] JLB wrote: emerald wrote: Quote: They call it a "Safekeeper II" now, and it looks just like this:

you'd be arrested with soemthing like that here! and i'd be glad :-D (not that u'd be arrested just that it's illegal to carry weapons like that ofcourse...)

I've got a carry permit, but it doesn't extend to England, unfortunately.

Quote: How do I apply for a permit for one? Are they legal in Indiana.

Indiana has a CCW law, and is a "shall issue" state, meaning that if you meet their requirements, they have to give you one.

Go here:

http://www.packing.org/state/

and click on your state for more info.





If you have a CCW in Indiana, you can also carry in these states:

The blue ones.


JLB wrote: They do make a very effective subsitute for this knife in high strength nylon, that would be very effective.

Quote: Nice. Even made you nylon, would this matter? Would it still be as sturdy as you would ever need it to be for practical use?

I doubt it would cut clothing like a steel blade, but would certainly cut skin, or would be effective in a thrust.