Political Crossfire Forums

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: So what's up with the gavel that comes with the robe?
My guess is that it's probably pretty closely related to the Gavel of the Freemason's:

Masonic Gavel

But, contratary to what you and John think, I'm no Mason.. so I don't know much more..

I do know that Solomon was into hammers and gavels, though..

He was also into building temples w/o the "sound of a hammer"..

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Also this.

Joos in space!

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Also this.

Joos in space!
I haven't completely figured out the symbolism behind Vader..

Although I notice that he does use a Masonic Triangle as the speaker through which he talks (right around the mouth).

I'm pretty certain that Darth Vader is not a Jew, though.. :?

Luke Skywalker, of course, is a bit simpler to figure out.

Luke (in Star Wars, as in the Bible/Gospel Writer) is just short for Lucifer, or the Light-Bearer.

The symbolism of who precisely this Light-Bearer is can change sometimes depending on context. The most common context is an inner planet like Mercury or esp Venus, since they often "precede" the light of day.. A less common, but in this case valid, interpretation is the Sun itself (the Sun "bears" light, no?)

The ancient Egyptians divided the daylight hours up into twelve "Horus-es".. Horus was the "Son" of the "Sun", and as the Sun "walked" across the sky, it would step from one "Horus" to the next "Horus" to the next "Horus", etc..

This ancient Eygptian root word is still almost perfectly preserved in our modern Engilsh as "hours" (same letters as "Horus", just changed around a bit).

So Luke is Lucifer, the Light-Bearer, who is the Sun (<- Lucas is giving us a Shakespearan pun on "son" here, of course, Luke being the "son" - and the "Sun" - of Darth Vader) that "walks" across the "sky".. Hence, Luke Skywalker.. (better known to you Bible types as Lucifer).

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Luke=Lucas?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

George Lucas probably didn't get along with his father or something. :lol:

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: Luke=Lucas?
Luke = Lucifer.

The Gospel of Luke is the Gospel of the Light-Bearer.

Each of the Four Gospels has its own, special symbolic interpretation.

The one for Luke is as I have described above.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

cap'n queasy wrote: George Lucas probably didn't get along with his father or something. :lol:
Your allegory doesn't work as nicely w/ George Lucas in the role of the Skywalker as it does w/ Lucifer (the Sun/Son) in the role of the Skywalker.

The entire Bible - the whole friggin' purpose is that book - is that Lucifer fell from Heaven and became Satan. You would probably say the purpose of the Bible is to demonstrate that man is fallen and what a piece of garbage man is (<- using your worldview there, not mine). That's part of the story, true. But where did this serpent come from in the garden of Eden who temped Eve?

Lucifer had already fallen at that point.

The entire Star Wars saga - the whole friggin' purpose of those movies - is to ask the question: will Luke (i.e., Lucifer) also fall and turn to the Dark Side?

In fact, I seem to recall that Luke *did* fall from a very great height at the end of Empire .. :think:

Good thing Lando + Chewy were there in the Millenium Falcon to save him, or Luke would've been toast.. :wink:

Lando rescues Luke (i.e., Lucifer) after he falls from Cloud City (i.e., Heaven)

Luke is confronted w/ a turn to the Dark Side in nearly every scene in all three of the original Star Wars movies. We as movie-goers are never certain (until the end of the Return of the Jedi) whether or not Luke is going to make it ... or whether or not Luke (i.e., Lucifer) is going to fall to the Dark Side.

There are many deep Biblical symbols in Star Wars.. That's part of the reason those movies endure they way they do. But this one - the core one about the conflict that Lucifer experiences - is the core struggle/story that is told in both the Bible and Star Wars..

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: using your worldview there, not mine

Sorry, that is from your negative worldview, and has nothing to do with mine.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22919 Location: ZzZzZzZz

lmao lovely little extrapolations there
"
Lando rescues Luke (i.e., Lucifer) after he falls from Cloud City (i.e., Heaven) "

I'm saving these.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Well, who is Lando?

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22919 Location: ZzZzZzZz

The kneeling guy in teh pic

I watched star wars, and thought the message is basically, dont do bad things, or just simply dont go touching that weird black s**t, aka dark side of teh force

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

anselfir wrote: The kneeling guy in teh pic

I watched star wars, and thought the message is basically, dont do bad things, or just simply dont go touching that weird black s**t, aka dark side of teh force
No seriously... You can keep taking the symbolism even further.. :-D

Why *did* Luke (Lucifer) fall from Cloud City (Heaven) at that point in the movies?

Because that's where Luke (Lucifer) had his first confrontation w/ Vader (the Father, taken from the German "Vater").

And what was the first thing Luke did as soon as he laid eyes on Vader?

Lucifer (Luke) rebelled against the Father..

In fact, Luke rebelled so badly, I seem to recall him getting his hand lopped off in the process..

Now you know as well as I do what happens to anyone who rebels against the Father...

That's right..

They are cast down out of Heaven.

Lucifer rebelled against the Father, and fell from Heaven b/c of it.

Luke rebelled against Vader, and fell from Cloud City b/c of it.

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22919 Location: ZzZzZzZz

dude, on most forums you will be worshiped

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5499 Location: Dreamland, NC

anselfir wrote: dude, on most forums you will be worshiped

:lol: :lol: :lol:

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

anselfir wrote: The kneeling guy in teh pic

I watched star wars, and thought the message is basically, dont do bad things, or just simply dont go touching that weird black s**t, aka dark side of teh force

No, dude, who is Lando in the analogy.

Luke is supposedly Lucifer, who was cast out from Heaven.

But I don't seem to remember anyone being there to catch him.

So I was wondering who it was Lando represented.

But I guess you guys haven't thought that far ahead. :lol:

anselfir · Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 22919 Location: ZzZzZzZz

well, i dunno, his followers?

we can incorporate the millennium falcon into this as an occult egyptian reference to the sun god, the light bringer's vessel, or something kewl like that

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

anselfir wrote: dude, on most forums you will be worshiped

I get the feeling he would like that. :lol:

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

anselfir wrote: well, i dunno, his followers?

So this is a "savior" that is saved by his followers.

That's kind of interesting. I suppose that even Satan could be saved, but somehow I don't think Satanists would be able to pull that off, seeing how they are to busy "worshiping" themselves to care at all about their object of worship.

Pehaps this analogy is totally bogus, the meanderings of disturbed minds.

I mean after all, how is it that someone who insists that their version of Christianity, in which God the Father is accurately represented by one of the most evil people in popular fiction, is accurate. How could the mind that developed this analogy be said not to be at least a little disturbed?

That is a very strange ethos to follow, one would have to admit.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

mojo wrote: anselfir wrote: dude, on most forums you will be worshiped

:lol: :lol: :lol: Ditto...:)

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

maskedJR wrote: It has been awhile since I started a thread, or even posted here. This thread is not meant for a debate, but just an honest question I have tossed around in my head this summer.

From my reading of Jesus, I think it would be a fair assumption that he would have been considered a pacifist. Still I wonder, what would you think his stance would be in regards to social programs and taxation? (I already know the verse of render unto Caesar what is Caesars..but I am wanting to expand on this.) The needs of the poor are often taken care of through social programs by taxation. Yet our taxation also pays for a strong military..

Cap'n and John, I am still searching, but regardless of whether a person believes him to be the savior or not, no one can deny he was a truly enlightened and compassionate person.

There is no virtue to me for social programs that are paid for by taxation. It isn't an act of charity to pay taxes to a government that funds social programs.

Jesus told his Apostles to buy a sword.