Political Crossfire Forums

[chris_mthomas]

The real loser in the past election was trade. And while many "progressives" are bound to cheer over this outcome, let's remember the human cost to our illogical, arrogant protectionist stance.

Haiti's Trade Push Hits New Political Head Wind
Greg Hitt
Money quote:
Quote: Haiti's struggle to persuade Congress to help its apparel makers underscores a new reality: In the political climate on Capitol Hill, even small trade gestures face big hurdles.

Haiti is trying to secure passage of an initiative that would allow the Caribbean country to use non-American-made material in garments destined for the U.S., while still qualifying for duty-free access. Currently, Haitian garments must be made from material produced in the U.S., or in some cases from the Caribbean region, to get duty-free treatment. Using foreign-made fabric, such as from China, could significantly lower production costs for Haitian garments makers and make their goods more competitive in global markets.

Haiti exported $447 million in goods to the U.S. in 2005, a fraction of total U.S. imports. Haitian officials say the deal could create as many as 40,000 sorely needed jobs there.
Haiti isn't an economic threat. Its citizens are mired in poverty. Where's the compassionate left on this?

Haiti isn't the only place. Now the Democrats have decided that Columbia and Peru are dire economic threats to working Americans:
Democrats to throw out Colombia trade deal
In addition, it seems that a trade deal with Vietnam is getting less and less likely to pass Congress, even with their entrance into the WTO.

It's all truly depressing.

[soldierofsoul]

chris_mthomas wrote: The real loser in the past election was trade. And while many "progressives" are bound to cheer over this outcome, let's remember the human cost to our illogical, arrogant protectionist stance.

Haiti's Trade Push Hits New Political Head Wind
Greg Hitt
Money quote:
Quote: Haiti's struggle to persuade Congress to help its apparel makers underscores a new reality: In the political climate on Capitol Hill, even small trade gestures face big hurdles.

Haiti is trying to secure passage of an initiative that would allow the Caribbean country to use non-American-made material in garments destined for the U.S., while still qualifying for duty-free access. Currently, Haitian garments must be made from material produced in the U.S., or in some cases from the Caribbean region, to get duty-free treatment. Using foreign-made fabric, such as from China, could significantly lower production costs for Haitian garments makers and make their goods more competitive in global markets.

Haiti exported $447 million in goods to the U.S. in 2005, a fraction of total U.S. imports. Haitian officials say the deal could create as many as 40,000 sorely needed jobs there.
Haiti isn't an economic threat. Its citizens are mired in poverty. Where's the compassionate left on this?

Haiti isn't the only place. Now the Democrats have decided that Columbia and Peru are dire economic threats to working Americans:
Democrats to throw out Colombia trade deal
In addition, it seems that a trade deal with Vietnam is getting less and less likely to pass Congress, even with their entrance into the WTO.

It's all truly depressing.

Well they brought poverty on themselves, where is the passionate left? Hmmm where is human responsibility, they, if they wanted too could work. They don't want to, that is why they are in poverty. My brother was there two and a half years ago (remember when the president got kicked off the island, and the country went crazy in civil war?), the Marines had to be called in because they could not control there country. America comes in when they are needed (genocide, radical Muslim takeover...) not to help save a perfectly capable nation of sustaining itself.

[Timmytour]

Didn´t the whole Cuba thing start with the refusal of the US to let them trade their sugar? People think the Castro was a natural friend of the Soviets which is not true. It was US blackmail that pushed him that direction.

[sLiPpY]

Speaking for myself, we could most certainly use 40,000 new jobs in America!

If requiring a purchase of US materials that keeps US jobs is all that is required? Say we give them duty free, on non-US Materials and several thousand people here at home have to go find new jobs, and collect unemployment? as a result?

I believe in "fair trade" not "free trade"

To the right "Free Trade" = profiting from sending American jobs to some country were the locals work for slave wages, with a smile on their face.

Let's see if you can master the concept.

Left = Fair Trade Right=Free Trade aka "flushing the gross domestic product down the toilet." :moon:

[soldierofsoul]

Timmytour wrote: Didn´t the whole Cuba thing start with the refusal of the US to let them trade their sugar? People think the Castro was a natural friend of the Soviets which is not true. It was US blackmail that pushed him that direction.

Well they did have nukes pointed at Florida (where I live) threatening my way of life because they did not like our policies. But I guess Cuba not supporting our policies gives them reason to want to kill us all, and threatening us to accept there cruel government. Well is still killing its citizens, and they are swimming as fast they can to US borders...but your right its Americas' fault...it always is...

[Timmytour]

soldierofsoul wrote: Timmytour wrote: Didn´t the whole Cuba thing start with the refusal of the US to let them trade their sugar? People think the Castro was a natural friend of the Soviets which is not true. It was US blackmail that pushed him that direction.

Well they did have nukes pointed at Florida (where I live) threatening my way of life because they did not like our policies. But I guess Cuba not supporting our policies gives them reason to want to kill us all, and threatening us to accept there cruel government. Well is still killing its citizens, and they are swimming as fast they can to US borders...but your right its Americas' fault...it always is...

There were no nukes pointing at Florida before America effectively "shut-out" Cuba. The whole situation need not have arisen had the US played fair. After all for a long time in Cuba before Castrobthey were supportive of a brutal dictator who made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to distribute the wealth of his nation beyond the corrupt government officials and the mafia. A bit of humility then would have changed the whole complexion.

some lessons are never learned.

[rye]

"Haiti isn't an economic threat. Its citizens are mired in poverty. Where's the compassionate left on this? "

Bravo! Well framed, sir.


"The real loser in the past election was trade. "

Who is "trade?" I haven't met him. All unfunny kidding aside, trade is a neutral, valueless term. Besides, you can't hurt it. It will always occur as long as one has what another wants.

Oh...you mean international corporate "free trade" under the guise of helping the impoverished masses. Man, I thought the 90's were over.

[soldierofsoul]

Timmytour wrote: soldierofsoul wrote: Timmytour wrote: Didn´t the whole Cuba thing start with the refusal of the US to let them trade their sugar? People think the Castro was a natural friend of the Soviets which is not true. It was US blackmail that pushed him that direction.

Well they did have nukes pointed at Florida (where I live) threatening my way of life because they did not like our policies. But I guess Cuba not supporting our policies gives them reason to want to kill us all, and threatening us to accept there cruel government. Well is still killing its citizens, and they are swimming as fast they can to US borders...but your right its Americas' fault...it always is...

There were no nukes pointing at Florida before America effectively "shut-out" Cuba. The whole situation need not have arisen had the US played fair. After all for a long time in Cuba before Castrobthey were supportive of a brutal dictator who made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to distribute the wealth of his nation beyond the corrupt government officials and the mafia. A bit of humility then would have changed the whole complexion.

some lessons are never learned.

Well they did have nukes, if they were not pointed towards Florida then where were they directed to?

[clg311]

[quote="chris_mthomas"]The real loser in the past election was trade. And while many "progressives" are bound to cheer over this outcome, let's remember the human cost to our illogical, arrogant protectionist stance.

Haiti's Trade Push Hits New Political Head Wind
Greg Hitt
Money quote:
Quote: Haiti's struggle to persuade Congress to help its apparel makers underscores a new reality: In the political climate on Capitol Hill, even small trade gestures face big hurdles.

Haiti is trying to secure passage of an initiative that would allow the Caribbean country to use non-American-made material in garments destined for the U.S., while still qualifying for duty-free access. Currently, Haitian garments must be made from material produced in the U.S., or in some cases from the Caribbean region, to get duty-free treatment. Using foreign-made fabric, such as from China, could significantly lower production costs for Haitian garments makers and make their goods more competitive in global markets.



By trade do mean trade agreements like NAFTA that didn't allow Mexican farmers to receive government subsidies and forced them to compete with heavily subsidized U.S. agribusiness that led to a million and a half jobs lost in the rural sector in Mexico and increased immigration from Mexico to the U.S. by 60%. Or forced privatization and destruction of the public sector and unlimited foreign investment with no corporate accountability that has been the defining characteristic of all "free trade" agreements and the "rebuilding" of Iraq?

Or have the neoliberals finally learned that their idiotic policies don't work and are promoting real trade with equal trading partners?

[Bull]

soldierofsoul wrote: chris_mthomas wrote: The real loser in the past election was trade. And while many "progressives" are bound to cheer over this outcome, let's remember the human cost to our illogical, arrogant protectionist stance.

Haiti's Trade Push Hits New Political Head Wind
Greg Hitt
Money quote:
Quote: Haiti's struggle to persuade Congress to help its apparel makers underscores a new reality: In the political climate on Capitol Hill, even small trade gestures face big hurdles.

Haiti is trying to secure passage of an initiative that would allow the Caribbean country to use non-American-made material in garments destined for the U.S., while still qualifying for duty-free access. Currently, Haitian garments must be made from material produced in the U.S., or in some cases from the Caribbean region, to get duty-free treatment. Using foreign-made fabric, such as from China, could significantly lower production costs for Haitian garments makers and make their goods more competitive in global markets.

Haiti exported $447 million in goods to the U.S. in 2005, a fraction of total U.S. imports. Haitian officials say the deal could create as many as 40,000 sorely needed jobs there.
Haiti isn't an economic threat. Its citizens are mired in poverty. Where's the compassionate left on this?

Haiti isn't the only place. Now the Democrats have decided that Columbia and Peru are dire economic threats to working Americans:
Democrats to throw out Colombia trade deal
In addition, it seems that a trade deal with Vietnam is getting less and less likely to pass Congress, even with their entrance into the WTO.

It's all truly depressing.

Well they brought poverty on themselves, where is the passionate left? Hmmm where is human responsibility, they, if they wanted too could work. They don't want to, that is why they are in poverty. My brother was there two and a half years ago (remember when the president got kicked off the island, and the country went crazy in civil war?), the Marines had to be called in because they could not control there country. America comes in when they are needed (genocide, radical Muslim takeover...) not to help save a perfectly capable nation of sustaining itself.

I would look into the history of Haiti before I'd make a bold, ill-informed statement like that. Haiti, as well as many other countries in South America have been economically exploited for almost 100 years.

This is from the article..."We can stop it," pledged Cass Johnson, president of the National Council of Textile Organizations, the largest U.S. textile-industry group. "If Vietnam shows anything, it will fail."

This is coming from the largest textile industry group in America. I bet their lobbyist will come in handy because I can see why they'd be against it. By the way, the article doesn't say it has been thrown out yet...just that it may be. It wouldn't surprise me if it was thrown out though. And the article also says the bill could be judged by the current Congress...not the new Congress which comes in January. So why you're asking what the "Protectionist" Congress would do as if they can do anything now anyway is beyong me.

[Rankor and Pissing]

rye wrote: "Haiti isn't an economic threat. Its citizens are mired in poverty. Where's the compassionate left on this? "

Bravo! Well framed, sir.


"The real loser in the past election was trade. "

Who is "trade?" I haven't met him. All unfunny kidding aside, trade is a neutral, valueless term. Besides, you can't hurt it. It will always occur as long as one has what another wants.

Oh...you mean international corporate "free trade" under the guise of helping the impoverished masses. Man, I thought the 90's were over.

I can't say I disagree with the new congress on this one. I'd rather have the jobs here in the good 'ol USA than overseas. There's free trade, and then there's fair trade... I'm for the latter.

[Mr. Sunshine]

Every administration has its scam. Clinton had .com and Bush had "the housing boom" aka the lending boom. It is a economic control device and needs to be very deep to exert control. The next Democratic Administration will revalue the dollar. Mark my words. :wink:

[Moot]

Gee, its too bad the Democrats should hinder Bush's trade agreement with Colombia because they oppose Rightwing death squads.

From OP article...
Quote: Democrats to throw out Colombia trade deal

...Mr Uribe’s visit to Capitol Hill last week was upstaged by difficulties with his own Congress, where three members of the House and Senate in Bogotá were arrested for links to rightwing para-militaries.

The trio are being charged, along with others close to the government, with financing death squads. Senator Alvaro García is charged with helping to plan a massacre of civilians in 2000.

Perhaps the OP thinks American workers should also have a gun pointed at their head or work under the control of armed corporate militias so they will be forced to work longer hours for less money in order to compete with Colombian workers.

[sLiPpY]

Moot wrote: Gee, its too bad the Democrats should hinder Bush's trade agreement with Colombia because they oppose Rightwing death squads.

From OP article...
Quote: Democrats to throw out Colombia trade deal

...Mr Uribe’s visit to Capitol Hill last week was upstaged by difficulties with his own Congress, where three members of the House and Senate in Bogotá were arrested for links to rightwing para-militaries.

The trio are being charged, along with others close to the government, with financing death squads. Senator Alvaro García is charged with helping to plan a massacre of civilians in 2000.

Perhaps the OP thinks American workers should also have a gun pointed at their head or work under the control of armed corporate militias so they will be forced to work longer hours for less money in order to compete with Colombian workers.

:tu:

[Timmytour]

soldierofsoul wrote: Timmytour wrote: soldierofsoul wrote: Timmytour wrote: Didn´t the whole Cuba thing start with the refusal of the US to let them trade their sugar? People think the Castro was a natural friend of the Soviets which is not true. It was US blackmail that pushed him that direction.

Well they did have nukes pointed at Florida (where I live) threatening my way of life because they did not like our policies. But I guess Cuba not supporting our policies gives them reason to want to kill us all, and threatening us to accept there cruel government. Well is still killing its citizens, and they are swimming as fast they can to US borders...but your right its Americas' fault...it always is...

There were no nukes pointing at Florida before America effectively "shut-out" Cuba. The whole situation need not have arisen had the US played fair. After all for a long time in Cuba before Castrobthey were supportive of a brutal dictator who made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to distribute the wealth of his nation beyond the corrupt government officials and the mafia. A bit of humility then would have changed the whole complexion.

some lessons are never learned.

Well they did have nukes, if they were not pointed towards Florida then where were they directed to?

What :shock:

Go over what i said again...

Quote: There were no nukes pointing at Florida before America effectively "shut-out" Cuba

It was only after America shut out Cuba that Castro turned to Russia and the nukes came.

Where do you think he would have got them before that?

Iraq? :lol:

[chris_mthomas]

Quote: I can't say I disagree with the new congress on this one. I'd rather have the jobs here in the good 'ol USA than overseas. There's free trade, and then there's fair trade... I'm for the latter.
So now "fair trade" equals "keeping jobs in the USA"? The definition of this term is getting vaguer and vaguer by the day.

It seems obvious to me that "fair trade" is just doublespeak for "protectionism". But protectionism has been so disproven and so debunked that anyone that is openly protectionist obviously comes across as a bit ignorant...

How about this idea? Removing the tariffs on textiles - allowing millions of impoverished people across the world to rise out of poverty and working class American families to more easily afford to clothe themselves... all while making the American economy more efficient and competitive.

Quote: Besides, you can't hurt it. It will always occur as long as one has what another wants.

Oh...you mean international corporate "free trade" under the guise of helping the impoverished masses. Man, I thought the 90's were over.
1. It's easy to "hurt" trade. i.e. allowing idiotic, inefficient tariffs to dominate our international trade policy.
2. International trade has helped the impoverished masses. Perhaps only marginally in the United States, but around the world international "corporate" trade has lifted millions out of poverty. China is a glowing example.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

I'm really curious as to how any of this has anything to do with the 110th Congress
which will not come to power until January 3, 2007?

Where's the link to these actions and the incoming 110th Congress ?

EDIT: perhaps Is the World spinning to the Left ? can add something to this discussion ?