Political Crossfire Forums

[maskedJR]

It has been awhile since I started a thread, or even posted here. This thread is not meant for a debate, but just an honest question I have tossed around in my head this summer.

From my reading of Jesus, I think it would be a fair assumption that he would have been considered a pacifist. Still I wonder, what would you think his stance would be in regards to social programs and taxation? (I already know the verse of render unto Caesar what is Caesars..but I am wanting to expand on this.) The needs of the poor are often taken care of through social programs by taxation. Yet our taxation also pays for a strong military..

Cap'n and John, I am still searching, but regardless of whether a person believes him to be the savior or not, no one can deny he was a truly enlightened and compassionate person.

[cap'n queasy]

No, that cannot be denied.

And I would say there is nothing wrong with a strong military, it's only a tool.

It's how it is used that makes the difference.

[psholtz]

maskedJR wrote: Still I wonder, what would you think his stance would be in regards to social programs and taxation? (I already know the verse of render unto Caesar what is Caesars..but I am wanting to expand on this.) The needs of the poor are often taken care of through social programs by taxation. Yet our taxation also pays for a strong military..
There is no State-run "social program" that has ever had a net benefit for the poor or disadvantaged. Not in the time of Jesus and certainly not today. Besides your taxes today are of a completely different character than those in the time of Christ were.. today taxes are used largely to finance public debt and support the issue of fiat (i.e., imaginary) currency.

These are evil, unconsciounable ends no matter how you look at it.

Besides, this parable is not (necessarily) meant to be taken literally. Go along to get along perhaps, but the parable has an esoteric interpretation and its in that context that it should be considered.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: Besides your taxes today are of a completely different character than those in the time of Christ were.. today taxes are used largely to finance public debt and support the issue of fiat

That's just an excuse to justify avoiding paying your taxes.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: There is no State-run "social program" that has ever had a net benefit for the poor or disadvantaged.

You really need to get out more

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Besides your taxes today are of a completely different character than those in the time of Christ were.. today taxes are used largely to finance public debt and support the issue of fiat

That's just an excuse to justify avoiding paying your taxes.
Which is absolutely the most patriotic thing any Ameican can possibly be doing right now.

The Federal Reserve is absolutely the most monstrous and destructive creation ever devised by the mind of man.

I would disengage as fully as possible from the US economy right now.. the Titanitc is sinking, the slaves couldn't possibly care less. It's a very dangerous situation to be in..

[psholtz]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: There is no State-run "social program" that has ever had a net benefit for the poor or disadvantaged.

You really need to get out more
I can't speak for how things were in the time of Jesus, but I have a feeling the Romans of that era were pretty corrupt.

As for today's State social welfare programs, they are *all* -- every last one of them -- designed to transfer wealth, labor and property from the poor to the wealthy.

What's so sinister about them is the marketing that they're sold under..

The poor actually believe it's to their benefit to participate in these programs.

The Master taught that we must be as wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: The Master taught that we must be as wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

He also taught us to pay our taxes. And there is no valid excuse not to. If they should pay taxes to the Roman Empire back in the day then there is no reason we should not pay taxes to the USA, evil IRS or not.

I can agree with you that this world is pretty evil. But that is beside the point.

[maskedJR]

Thank you for your replies. I have been wondering lately how to balance my spiritual life with my political views. There is no way to get out of paying taxes, nor am I trying to evade taxation. On the other side of the coin, I am a firm believer in separation of church and state, but am merely trying to move my life where it needs to be.

[cap'n queasy]

maskedJR wrote: Thank you for your replies. I have been wondering lately how to balance my spiritual life with my political views. There is no way to get out of paying taxes, nor am I trying to evade taxation. On the other side of the coin, I am a firm believer in separation of church and state, but am merely trying to move my life where it needs to be.

It's a quandary, and that's for sure.

I too, am a firm believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that is a part of what Y'shua taught when when He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.

[anselfir]

Technically I would give money to anyone who asks for it, be it the emperor or a common person. Just because I should pay taxes doesn't make taxation special, or make the emperor special.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: The Master taught that we must be as wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

He also taught us to pay our taxes.
1) No he didn't.. :lol:

2) What you pay today can't even legally be considered a "tax".. a tax is something the government charges b/c it needs $$ to operate. Your government draws < 1/3 of its income from total tax revenues. The other 2/3 of annual income comes from God knows where.. well, I do know where, but I don't want to take this thread off topic.

And those statistics don't even count the total government wealth + assets.

What you pay is little more than a voluntary (<- I stress that point, income taxes are and always have been voluntary in America) social policy/slave fee.. Each year when you file a 1040 you're basically signing on the dotted line and telling the government: yes, I'm a slave and here's 1/3 - 1/2 of my wealth to prove to you what a total slave I am..

Jesus must be sitting in Heaven doing on of these.. :gdgf:

More to the point, Jesus never says "you must pay your taxes"..

He says "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's"..

In the case of our America Ceasar, our messianic Moshiach ben Bushka, to render unto Bush what is Bush's would be to place him under immediate arrest, and haul his sorry lil butt into court to stand trial for high treason (and for the thousands of other crimes he's commited over the course of his life).

Such would be rendering unto Bush that which is Bush's .. 8-)

You reap what you sow, baby... that applies to Ceasar, to Bush and to you and me.. and it is our duty under the Law to render unto others what they are due

Quote: And there is no valid excuse not to. If they should pay taxes to the Roman Empire back in the day then there is no reason we should not pay taxes to the USA, evil IRS or not.
JESUS NEVER TOLD ANYBODY TO PAY ANY TAXES TO THE ROMANS .. :gdgf:

It's like I'm dealing w/ Attack of the Illiterate Body-Snatchers or something...

Try for once reading that stupid Book that you claim you "believe" in.. :roll:

[psholtz]

maskedJR wrote: There is no way to get out of paying taxes
Of course there is..

What the hell do you think all the rich people/corporations do? :lol:

[cap'n queasy]

psholtz wrote: maskedJR wrote: There is no way to get out of paying taxes
Of course there is..

What the hell do you think all the rich people/corporations do? :lol:

Pay 90% of the taxes collected in the US.

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: I too, am a firm believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that is a part of what Y'shua taught when when He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.
You think you have separation of Church and State in this country?

Then what the hell are all your court judges doing wearing the Black Robe of Saturn when they on the bench?


The Verdict is in from the Reader's Choice Fashion Awards:
The color Black will once again be "in" for court justices in 2007

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: maskedJR wrote: There is no way to get out of paying taxes
Of course there is..

What the hell do you think all the rich people/corporations do? :lol:

Pay 90% of the taxes collected in the US.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

oohhh cap'n ... please.. stop.. :lol:

You're too much, you really are.. :-D

All I can say is, God bless the American public school system.. +p :woo:

[cap'n queasy]

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I too, am a firm believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that is a part of what Y'shua taught when when He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.
You think you have separation of Church and State in this country?

Then what the hell are all your court judges doing wearing the Black Robe of Saturn when they on the bench?


The Verdict is in from the Reader's Choice Fashion Awards:
The color Black will once again be "in" for court justices in 2007

Never heard that one before.

[cap'n queasy]

So what's up with the gavel that comes with the robe?

[psholtz]

cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I too, am a firm believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that is a part of what Y'shua taught when when He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.
You think you have separation of Church and State in this country?

Then what the hell are all your court judges doing wearing the Black Robe of Saturn when they on the bench?


The Verdict is in from the Reader's Choice Fashion Awards:
The color Black will once again be "in" for court justices in 2007

Never heard that one before.
I gotta keep things new and interesting.. :-D

The Fed/IRS conspiracy can get old after a while.. :wink:

Still .. do the research and you'll find that there is truth to what I'm saying about the High Priests of the Temple of Saturn (<- in America today, you call these priests your "judges")..

[cap'n queasy]

psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: psholtz wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: I too, am a firm believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that is a part of what Y'shua taught when when He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.
You think you have separation of Church and State in this country?

Then what the hell are all your court judges doing wearing the Black Robe of Saturn when they on the bench?


The Verdict is in from the Reader's Choice Fashion Awards:
The color Black will once again be "in" for court justices in 2007

Never heard that one before.
I gotta keep things new and interesting.. :-D

The Fed/IRS conspiracy can get old after a while.. :wink:

Still .. do the research and you'll find that there is truth to what I'm saying about the High Priests of the Temple of Saturn (<- in America today, you call these priests your "judges")..

I just took a look at "Beyond the Matrix" website.

This is what I found.



I should have known. :lol: