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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 9351
Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: Character Themes |
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Who remembers Peter and the Wolf?
For those who might not know, it's a Russian children's play accompanied by orchestra, where each character has their own theme and is represented by a particular instrument.
I'm really big on music, I don't keep up with the thousands of bands, groups, and singers advertised out there. But in my entertainment (movies, shows, games... movies most importantly) the music can make or break the mood in my opinion. There are some great composers out there; John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Nobuo Uematsu among my favorites, and the soundtracks/scores they conjure, sometimes derogatorily branded as "background music", is greatly under-appreciated.
Anyway, what I'm curious about are character themes. Like Peter and the Wolf, where every major or supporting character is bestowed their own theme or melody, which represents their personality or the atmosphere that surrounds them, and plays when they are present so the audience is reminded of a character and the emotions related when they hear the corresponding theme.
I can think of numerous videogames, RPG's in particular, they use this system, Opera and musical theater obviously does this often if not always, probably old TV shows.
I actually can't think of a single film or TV show, sans Star Wars, that has unique themes for the main characters... Star Wars is really it. Star Wars has a main theme, a theme for Luke, Kenobi/the force, Han/Leia's love, Yoda, Lando, Darth Vader, the Rebels, the Republic, the Empire (which isn't Vader's theme despite popular belief), Palpatine, etc.
Pirates of the Caribbean is a possibility... I know that Jack Sparrow has his own theme, and the Kraken has a musical piece played on the organ, but that's about it.
Any references? |
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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 9351
Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Not long after posting this, I find a name for what I'm talking about; Leitmotif
Wikipedia lists some examples... I guess LotR and Indiana Jones had character themes... even if I don't remember them. |
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micfranklin
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 9517
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Harry Potter has a music theme, you know, and so does the Spider-man movies. |
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Numb
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Character Themes |
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Melchior wrote: Who remembers Peter and the Wolf?
For those who might not know, it's a Russian children's play accompanied by orchestra, where each character has their own theme and is represented by a particular instrument.
I'm really big on music, I don't keep up with the thousands of bands, groups, and singers advertised out there. But in my entertainment (movies, shows, games... movies most importantly) the music can make or break the mood in my opinion. There are some great composers out there; John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Nobuo Uematsu among my favorites, and the soundtracks/scores they conjure, sometimes derogatorily branded as "background music", is greatly under-appreciated.
Anyway, what I'm curious about are character themes. Like Peter and the Wolf, where every major or supporting character is bestowed their own theme or melody, which represents their personality or the atmosphere that surrounds them, and plays when they are present so the audience is reminded of a character and the emotions related when they hear the corresponding theme.
I can think of numerous videogames, RPG's in particular, they use this system, Opera and musical theater obviously does this often if not always, probably old TV shows.
I actually can't think of a single film or TV show, sans Star Wars, that has unique themes for the main characters... Star Wars is really it. Star Wars has a main theme, a theme for Luke, Kenobi/the force, Han/Leia's love, Yoda, Lando, Darth Vader, the Rebels, the Republic, the Empire (which isn't Vader's theme despite popular belief), Palpatine, etc.
Pirates of the Caribbean is a possibility... I know that Jack Sparrow has his own theme, and the Kraken has a musical piece played on the organ, but that's about it.
Any references?
I think I know what your talking about, but theme really isn't that important when it comes to movies. |
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Clarino
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 3344
Location: Oop North
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Melchior wrote: Not long after posting this, I find a name for what I'm talking about; Leitmotif
Wikipedia lists some examples... I guess LotR and Indiana Jones had character themes... even if I don't remember them.
Wagner is your man for leitmotif. He frequently claimed to have invented/perfected it. He was a bit of a narcesist.
Film composers don't usually go for this because when writing the music for a film you have to put it together very quickly (when composing Opera you can, to some extent work at your own pace) often requiring a few seconds extra here and there. You basically work with the director around a largely complete film. Obviously once a director has all the scenes in a film recorded the way he wants them, he doesn't want to spend too much time sorting out the music and editing because he wants to get the film into the cinemas. Therefore the music has to be composed, printed and recorded in as short a time as possible. So creating a particular theme for each character/setting is too time consuming particularly when you have to figure out ways to mix them together when you have two or more characters in the scene. Major ballache.
But yeah, Peter and the Wolf, brilliant piece. Played it in Uni, lots of fun but not too difficult. :-D |
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The Newb
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| star wars |
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Clarino
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Oop North
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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The Newb wrote: star wars
John Williams works differently to most film composers. He gets a lot of themes written for him for a flat fee then binds them contractually to silence, taking credit for other composers' work. He basically works as an arranger.
It's caused some irritation amongst certain members of the music community. |
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LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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The Newb wrote: star wars
Luke, Vader, Obi Wan, Han Solo...
They all had their own themes. |
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Clarino
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Look up. |
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LostSoul3412
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| So what? It still fits the theme. |
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The Newb
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Clarino wrote: The Newb wrote: star wars
John Williams works differently to most film composers. He gets a lot of themes written for him for a flat fee then binds them contractually to silence, taking credit for other composers' work. He basically works as an arranger.
It's caused some irritation amongst certain members of the music community.
still themes for the characters not the man involved |
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Clarino
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Oop North
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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LostSoul3412 wrote: So what? It still fits the theme.
So? It's already been mentioned as a film shich contains elements of leitmotif. I explained why this was the case and why it is rare in a film.
The Newb wrote: Clarino wrote: The Newb wrote: star wars
John Williams works differently to most film composers. He gets a lot of themes written for him for a flat fee then binds them contractually to silence, taking credit for other composers' work. He basically works as an arranger.
It's caused some irritation amongst certain members of the music community.
still themes for the characters not the man involved
:bang:
My point is that John Williams was able to do that because a) he had longer than normal to get the music together, and b) he didn't write all the themes himself, they were "pre-prepared" so to speak. So his only difficulty was fitting them together and making the music the right legnth for the scenes/film. |
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thundertaker
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 12089
Location: The right side of the Pennines (Lancashire)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry Goldsmith deserves a mention in this thread.........
Jerry Goldsmith....... |
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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: Jerry Goldsmith deserves a mention in this thread.........
Jerry Goldsmith.......
Who is Jerry Goldsmith? |
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thundertaker
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The right side of the Pennines (Lancashire)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Melchior wrote: thundertaker wrote: Jerry Goldsmith deserves a mention in this thread.........
Jerry Goldsmith.......
Who is Jerry Goldsmith?
He was one of Hollywood's greatest and most prolific composers (not to mention my favourite) He scored films such as 'Planet of the Apes', 'Alien', 'Patch of Blue', 'Patton', 'Mulan' etc. Plus many of the Star Trek film themes.
His most famous and perhaps greatest work was probably the infamous soundtrack for 'The Omen'. My personel favourite is his lesser known and more overlooked theme track from 'The Secret of NIMH'.
IMHO he was to cinema music what Sir Lawrence Olivier was to Shakespearian Theatre......... |
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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: Melchior wrote: thundertaker wrote: Jerry Goldsmith deserves a mention in this thread.........
Jerry Goldsmith.......
Who is Jerry Goldsmith?
He was one of Hollywood's greatest and most prolific composers (not to mention my favourite) He scored films such as 'Planet of the Apes', 'Alien', 'Patch of Blue', 'Patton', 'Mulan' etc. Plus many of the Star Trek film themes.
His most famous and perhaps greatest work was probably the infamous soundtrack for 'The Omen'. My personel favourite is his lesser known and more overlooked theme track from 'The Secret of NIMH'.
IMHO he was to cinema music what Sir Lawrence Olivier was to Shakespearian Theatre.........
I'm amazed that I've never heard of him.
I'm in the mood to watch Mulan and The Secret of NIMH again, I saw Mulan in the store the other day, thought of buying it...
I've never seen the original Planet of the Apes, The Omen in it's entirety, or any of the Star Trek films (except some of Search for Spok). But those are on my list as well.
I'll look into his albums. |
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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Jeez, he's done a lot of movies.
It looks like he composed the music for The Mummy remake. I remember that score. :-D |
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Clarino
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Oop North
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Melchior wrote: thundertaker wrote: Melchior wrote: thundertaker wrote: Jerry Goldsmith deserves a mention in this thread.........
Jerry Goldsmith.......
Who is Jerry Goldsmith?
He was one of Hollywood's greatest and most prolific composers (not to mention my favourite) He scored films such as 'Planet of the Apes', 'Alien', 'Patch of Blue', 'Patton', 'Mulan' etc. Plus many of the Star Trek film themes.
His most famous and perhaps greatest work was probably the infamous soundtrack for 'The Omen'. My personel favourite is his lesser known and more overlooked theme track from 'The Secret of NIMH'.
IMHO he was to cinema music what Sir Lawrence Olivier was to Shakespearian Theatre.........
I'm amazed that I've never heard of him.
Not all that surprising. Composers aren't that famous these days, even film composers don't get well known unless they write music for a film which becomes a huge success, and then the music has to live up to the storyline/acting. Who had heard of Howard Shore before LOTR? Not many, but he was out there doing good work.
Most of the best composers work in the film industry these days. They have to write good music, or they don't get the next job. People who become "successful" composers in the mainstream compose works that are so anal, nobody who loves music would want to listen to them. For examples look up Sir Peter Maxwell-Davis. Tosser. |
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thundertaker
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The right side of the Pennines (Lancashire)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought Jerry Goldsmith was quite famous. I'd have thought anyone with an interest in film tracks would have heard of him. He was one of the biggest names in the business........ |
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Melchior
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Palm Beach
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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thundertaker wrote: I thought Jerry Goldsmith was quite famous. I'd have thought anyone with an interest in film tracks would have heard of him. He was one of the biggest names in the business........
Well now I know him, and I wouldn't have learned who he was if I didn't have an interest in film music in the first place. |
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