Political Crossfire Forums

martys_f · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 15

I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries.

American Ceasar · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 457

I think America would be better of if a Falconist adminsitration were in power =)

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries. christian fundamentalist = conservative?.. ummm ok :roll:

why are people trying to change our country into something other than it is.. a constitutional representative republic.

if a person likes the whole social democracy thing... good for them... move to a country that has one...stop messing with the US

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 18697 Location: Illinois

martys_f wrote: I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries.

I do firmly believe that if she were elected she would supersede her husbands inauguration with record gun and ammo sales.

I guarantee you my collection will double.

ontheyslay · Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 274 Location: Michigan

Thrilla wrote: martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries. christian fundamentalist = conservative?.. ummm ok :roll:

why are people trying to change our country into something other than it is.. a constitutional representative republic.

if a person likes the whole social democracy thing... good for them... move to a country that has one...stop messing with the US

It's no secret christian fundamentalists are conservative. To say they are not is a little ridiculous.

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

ontheyslay wrote: Thrilla wrote: martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries. christian fundamentalist = conservative?.. ummm ok :roll:

why are people trying to change our country into something other than it is.. a constitutional representative republic.

if a person likes the whole social democracy thing... good for them... move to a country that has one...stop messing with the US

It's no secret christian fundamentalists are conservative. To say they are not is a little ridiculous. yes.. yes they are conservatives... but they dont make up the bulk of conservatives in this country... attempting to pidgeonhole conservatives as christian fundies is quite ridiculous as well.

ontheyslay · Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 274 Location: Michigan

Thrilla wrote: ontheyslay wrote: Thrilla wrote: martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries. christian fundamentalist = conservative?.. ummm ok :roll:

why are people trying to change our country into something other than it is.. a constitutional representative republic.

if a person likes the whole social democracy thing... good for them... move to a country that has one...stop messing with the US

It's no secret christian fundamentalists are conservative. To say they are not is a little ridiculous. yes.. yes they are conservatives... but they dont make up the bulk of conservatives in this country... attempting to pidgeonhole conservatives as christian fundies is quite ridiculous as well.

I don't believe he called all conservatives christian fundamentalists, he called christian fundamentalists conservatives.

bigstick61 · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject:

Tyranny of the majority is my main reason for opposing democracy, especially a "social" democracy, which is a kinder, gentler terminology for socialism. A republic, especially a Federal one, with limited power, is the best form of government.

ontheyslay · Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 274 Location: Michigan

bigstick61 wrote: Tyranny of the majority is my main reason for opposing democracy, especially a "social" democracy, which is a kinder, gentler terminology for socialism. A republic, especially a Federal one, with limited power, is the best form of government.

A social democracy and a socialist state are two different things. It is not a kinder word for socialism. A socialist state is not even a democracy

thefranzkafkafront · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject:

American Ceasar wrote: I think America would be better of if a Falconist adminsitration were in power =)

Fear the party with the amature website and a myspace group!

If america ever went falconist expect to see a waco and ruby ridge every single weekend. Libertarians will fight you to the last man.

thefranzkafkafront

martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries.

Social Democracy is against the principles outlined in the consitution and individual liberty in general.

kohadril · Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 18 Location: Portland, OR

Here's a point to think about: America already is a "social democracy." All democracies, every single one of them in the world, are "social democracies." Any funcitoning state with social programs that are designed to ameliorate the failures of the market is, at least in part, socialist.

The question isn't whether we choose social democracy, capitalist democracy, or libertarianism or socialism. The question is where, on the spectrum between absolute libertarianism and complete socialism, do we choose to strike our balance? Face it: MedicAid is socialist. So are TANF and Social Security. In a fashion, so is the existence of the United States military; we aren't asked whether we would like to pay for protection by the Army, we are taxed, without our individual consent, to help provide funding for a public good (national security).

If by "social democracy" we mean states more socialist than ourselves and have Democratic governments, then the term "social democracy" doesn't have a terribly clear meaning. We exclude ourselves from that group then only by definition, which is kind of intellectually unsatisfying.

Rather than ask "why aren't we a social democracy," perhaps we ought to ask about particular policies of countries we regard that way. A better discussion might be: "why don't we have universal healthcare in the United States." Or, "why don't we nationalize telecommunications?" That way, we're actually discussing discrete and definable ideas. I find it hard to justify or refute "social democracy" as an abstraction.

Even though we may deny it, everybody recognizes that some things are better provided by the government, and some things are better provided by the market. So let's not artificially divide ourselves based on the assumption that we're talking about absolutes.

bigstick61 · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:

Quote: A social democracy and a socialist state are two different things. It is not a kinder word for socialism. A socialist state is not even a democracy

This is untrue. A country can be socialistic to varying degrees and still be a democracy. In fact, one could say this is the socialist ideal. However, I am wholly against such a system. It goes against the principles of liberty, limited government, and is not a republican form of government, thereby allowing tyranny of the majority to take place in various, often more subtle forms. Democracy is a terrible form of government, a social one even moreso.

ontheyslay · Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 274 Location: Michigan

bigstick61 wrote: Quote: A social democracy and a socialist state are two different things. It is not a kinder word for socialism. A socialist state is not even a democracy

This is untrue. A country can be socialistic to varying degrees and still be a democracy. In fact, one could say this is the socialist ideal. However, I am wholly against such a system. It goes against the principles of liberty, limited government, and is not a republican form of government, thereby allowing tyranny of the majority to take place in various, often more subtle forms. Democracy is a terrible form of government, a social one even moreso.

A country can have varying degrees of socialism in it, hence the term social democracy, but the idea of a full socialist state is that of control, not freedom.

Ozzone · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject:

What is a countery?

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 14211 Location: Himalayas

martys_f wrote: I think the "Third Way" is the best direction for this country. Christian fundamentalists ( so called conservatives) are trying to" Talibanize" our country. Thru media , they try to spread the message of hate and discrimination especially against minorities. They do not believe in diversity. Rather, they believe if you are not a christian and follow Jesus , there is something wrong with you.

I hope Americans can benefit from the social democracy that exist in Europe especially in Sweden and France. So called conservatives are trying to shift the direction of this country thru intimidation . They try to depict in the American psyche that "others" ( Arabs, Mexicans, South Americans .. etc) are a clear and present danger to the so called " American culture".

I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries.
I don't think France is a good example to follow. That being said, it is very possible to have effective social programs without bankrupting the state.

Chingu · Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 9617 Location: Illinois

FCTE wrote: martys_f wrote: I do firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best choice for our country to transform our great America to be one of the best social democratic countries.

I do firmly believe that if she were elected she would supersede her husbands inauguration with record gun and ammo sales.

I guarantee you my collection will double.
As would mine. I'd have to up my range capabilities and my caliber.

Chingu · Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 9617 Location: Illinois

It all depends on if you want to on one hand, redistribute wealth because for some reason you think the government would be better at that than the charity and compassion of the people through private organizations, and if you believe in restraining - even punishing success thus hampering growth and ingenuity - etc. Or, on the other hand, you believe that the freedom of the people and open markets are the best way to provide ample opportunity across the spectrum of socety so that all people have as good a chance for success as is possible.

I happen to seee it in the latter view because history demonstrates it.
That's not to say there can't be assistance programs and limited government involvement. BUt it should be mainly for those incapable of helping themselves. It shouldn't be a crutch for those who are unwilling to - due to personal motivation issues - help themselves.

tneedles · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject:

There is very little interest in changing to a "social democracy". And, Hillary....she is definitely not the person to transform. She would govern from the center. Plus, the congressional support is not there.

My wife and I made it to where we are today. It was not easy. But, we did it without any government or parental help. If we can do it, anyone can.

Chingu · Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 9617 Location: Illinois

tneedles wrote: There is very little interest in changing to a "social democracy". And, Hillary....she is definitely not the person to transform. She would govern from the center. Plus, the congressional support is not there.

My wife and I made it to where we are today. It was not easy. But, we did it without any government or parental help. If we can do it, anyone can.

I think your version of the center is pretty far to the left then if you think Hillary would govern from the center. Of course, she'd campaign FOR the center - but I know she wouldn't govern that way. 8:)