Political Crossfire Forums

[Suheil]

The debate is the child running a Marathon; the debate is occupation running a mock. Yesterday it was raised Falluja, the day before was a the rape of Mahmodia, today power dictating the rules of marathon in the most pathetic scene a dog following the scent of meat in a dog race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I&eurl=

The debate is Bush's war and what it turned Americans to; it is the core of the conflict!

[Chingu]

See my response to your invective post:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70941

[FenderRed]

Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

[Chingu]

FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.

[Dookiestix]

Chingu wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.
Your "good news" posts are few and far between, and they mean nothing to the thousands who have already died, and continue to die because of Bush's invasion of Iraq.

[FenderRed]

Quote: And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.

Excuse me that was anything BUT HARD DATA!!

Those videos were 95% rhetoric, with an obvious bias towards recent American policies.

What percent of the population of Iraq has running water and electricity, before and after our invasion?
Those you-tube videos of yours did not answer that. So, to me, your 'tiny fragment' doesn't even qualify as for tiny.

We're not winning hearts and minds, and, despite three years of occupancy, a lot of Iraqis don't have running water and electricity: THAT MAKES ME DOOM-AND-GLOOM?

Ummmm. No.

Thems the facts, you can either make your partisan mind accept them or you can be ignorant. Doom-and-gloom has nothing to do with it.

[callous]

Chingu wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.

Doom and gloom is a lame talking point, nothing more. I could take my hi-8 camera to Africa and film a child smiling and playing with a stick outside a hospital where 75 people are dying from AIDS.

That doesn't make proof that there is progress in Africa.

[Suheil]

Suheil wrote: The debate is the child running a Marathon; the debate is occupation running a mock. Yesterday it was raised Falluja, the day before was a the rape of Mahmodia, today power dictating the rules of marathon in the most pathetic scene a dog following the scent of meat in a dog race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I&eurl=

The debate is Bush's war and what it turned Americans to; it is the core of the conflict!

http://politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70936

[The Newb]

callous wrote: Chingu wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.

Doom and gloom is a lame talking point, nothing more. I could take my hi-8 camera to Africa and film a child smiling and playing with a stick outside a hospital where 75 people are dying from AIDS.

That doesn't make proof that there is progress in Africa.

i could go down the streets of L.A. film a few gang beatings and claim civil war and outright lack of civil law, anarchy at its truest form, but that isnt true either is it?

[CountryGuy]

The Newb wrote: callous wrote: Chingu wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.

Doom and gloom is a lame talking point, nothing more. I could take my hi-8 camera to Africa and film a child smiling and playing with a stick outside a hospital where 75 people are dying from AIDS.

That doesn't make proof that there is progress in Africa.

i could go down the streets of L.A. film a few gang beatings and claim civil war and outright lack of civil law, anarchy at its truest form, but that isnt true either is it?

Bah, you beat me to the punch!

[The Newb]

CountryGuy wrote:
Bah, you beat me to the punch!

sorry i just couldnt see the injustice going on :lol:

[War Approving Democrat]

Yes it was not a good idea to go into Iraq. I never supported it I felt at the time North Korea was the bigger threat, and I think I was right. And yes the situation is bad in Iraq. However, we got into this mess and now the US has to stay the course and not pull out or we will see a weak government collapse into civil war, where a terrorist run state will thrive. Yes the entrance was a mistake, we should not make another by leaving before the time is up.

[cool_chick]

The Newb wrote: callous wrote: Chingu wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)

We've been there for three years. If we were to have some evidence, some HARD DATA that showed the Iraqis are benefitting from our presence there it'd be one thing. Hearing some general talk about the insurgency's decline means nothing to me, they've been singing that tune for years now.

Is the electricity back everywhere it was before our invasion? Is the school system better, are they governed by and with a stable and unbiased police force? Do they have hopes of a unified military? Is our presence there showing signs of improving any of these things? Or do they need to work it out for themselves?

That video spurs within me all of these questions which I have yet to see answered in any you-tube video of some American general telling us for the hundredth time that "things are going smoothly". I know they're hard-working military experts of modern military, but they've been wrong countless times in this conflict when it comes to dealing with this chaotic, post-war, internally-divided population of Iraqis.

Don't lock this stuff, no one is trolling anybody and the video does a great job at striking at the core question: Are we helping anybody by being there? The kid shouldn't have to run after some sadistic bully of a soldier to get some water. We've had three years to build an infrastructure there to provide the kid with a clean faucet somewhere. And we failed. A lot of the Iraqis probably hate us for that reason, I know I would. Thats not "doom-and-gloom" liberalism, its reality.

And I presented a tiny fragment of the available hard evidence you ask for and you totally ignore it.
Again - this demonstrates where the gloom and doom attitude comes from. It comes from a perspective of total and all out eager and willing ignorance - and it isn't even well intentioned ignorance - it is destructive and damaging ignorance.

Doom and gloom is a lame talking point, nothing more. I could take my hi-8 camera to Africa and film a child smiling and playing with a stick outside a hospital where 75 people are dying from AIDS.

That doesn't make proof that there is progress in Africa.

i could go down the streets of L.A. film a few gang beatings and claim civil war and outright lack of civil law, anarchy at its truest form, but that isnt true either is it?


EXACTLY!!!!!!

This is why I don't use pictures or 2 minute videos as "proof" of anything....it's easy and intended to mislead with them....

[Proton]

Iraq is BOOOMING with progress I say.

[TheGirlNextDoor]

FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)



I found the thread in question.... AND

I'm making an educated guess (since I wasn't the one who locked it) it was because the OP did not post an opinion with the cited article/ video, etc... as per forum rules:

Quote: Article-based thread criteria. Articles posted to start a topic must be accompanied by a source and a substantive opinion, otherwise it will be deleted. Substantive opinions present an obvious stance with respect to the article and are not unarguable opinions like, "This is interesting." The opinion should create a solid basis for debate.

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64982


To the OP - Please change the title of this thread or it shall be locked as it is a form of trolling. And familiarize yourself with the rules of this site, please.

[Suheil]

Suheil wrote: The debate is the child running a Marathon; the debate is occupation running a mock. Yesterday it was raised Falluja, the day before was a the rape of Mahmodia, today power dictating the rules of marathon in the most pathetic scene a dog following the scent of meat in a dog race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I&eurl=

The debate is Bush's war and what it turned Americans to; it is the core of the conflict!

The song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkdPEMEGvIE&mode=related&search=

[Suheil]

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: FenderRed wrote: Ya, I don't know why your first thread was locked. There wasn't any trolling, just an interesting hard-to-watch video that ARGUES that we aren't winning hearts and minds (which is obvious to most of us by now.)



I found the thread in question.... AND

I'm making an educated guess (since I wasn't the one who locked it) it was because the OP did not post an opinion with the cited article/ video, etc... as per forum rules:

Quote: Article-based thread criteria. Articles posted to start a topic must be accompanied by a source and a substantive opinion, otherwise it will be deleted. Substantive opinions present an obvious stance with respect to the article and are not unarguable opinions like, "This is interesting." The opinion should create a solid basis for debate.

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64982


To the OP - Please change the title of this thread or it shall be locked as it is a form of trolling. And familiarize yourself with the rules of this site, please.

[mr.snruB]

malnurished children = PWNT

[Lumina]

I don't think Americans are bullies.

[The Newb]

Lumina wrote: I don't think Americans are bullies.

only if you consider not allowing the rest of the world to "write" our policies, and procedures being a bully then yeah i guess we are