Political Crossfire Forums

Dookiestix · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: The Price of Politicizing Terror

Quote: A team of suspected terrorists involved in an alleged UK plot to blow up trans-atlantic airliners escaped capture because of interference by the United States, The Independent has been told by counter-terrorism sources.

An investigation by MI5 and Scotland Yard into an alleged plan to smuggle explosive devices on up to 10 passenger jets was jeopardised in August, when the US put pressure on authorities in Pakistan to arrest a suspect allegedly linked to the airliner plot.

As a direct result of the surprise detention of the suspect, British police and MI5 were forced to rush forward plans to arrest an alleged UK gang accused of plotting to destroy the airliners. But a second group of suspected terrorists allegedly linked to the first evaded capture and is still at large, according to security sources.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article2013256.ece
Unfortunately, this is part of the end result when it comes to politicizing terror for pure political gain. As was evident before the mid-term elections, the GOP blindly used terror like they were throwing mud to a wall to see what stuck. Fortunately, nothing stuck, as Americans finally demanded a new direction. But much of the damage has already been done, because the endless politicization of terror by the GOP has rendered our ability to combat real terrorism a lot less effective. And Bush's corporate war into Iraq, which seemed to coincide quite nicely with his approval ratings in the early stages of the conflict, has now given away to sectarian strife, no thanx to the power vacuum and lack of a plan after Saddam's regime as toppled. This, of course, was all the result of the further politicization of terrorism, as a huge majority of Americans were convinced early on in the war that Saddam had a hand in 9/11. The connection was inadvertantly made thanx to some clever wordsmithing on the part of the Bush administration, and the American people were more than willing to bend over backwards and allow Bush to run roughshod over our very own Constitution.

They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, when we have already seen the effects of doing exactly that, as well as the effects of what happens when the Bush administration interferes with the efficacy of the British Government when it comes to breaking up terrorist plots.

The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq....

....as well as keeping Bush from screwing up anymore than he already has.

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:

beachbum bob · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:

seems like the same line concerning the hadatha murders and the rape case....our hopes were dashed...because those stories were true...

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

beachbum bob wrote: Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:

seems like the same line concerning the hadatha murders and the rape case....our hopes were dashed...because those stories were true... Haditha?.. i havent seen any news coming from that incident yet...got a link i can look over?
I fail to see what those things have in common with whether or not this new congress is going to be the savior of mankind though :think:

Dookiestix · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:

Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:
Ever hear of the "War on Terror?" :roll:

How's the "War on Drugs" going?

Bush declared a War on Terror, and has used conventional methods which have only destabilized an entire region and caused more death and destruction. He has mis-used the term "terror" in mischaracterizing many aspects of this particular type of "crime." His administration has even called the American Teacher's Association as a terrorist organization.

This only adds to the point I'm making here. And besides, it's FAR too easy to "back up" that claim.

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

Dookiestix wrote: Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:
Ever hear of the "War on Terror?" :roll:

How's the "War on Drugs" going?

Bush declared a War on Terror, and has used conventional methods which have only destabilized an entire region and caused more death and destruction. He has mis-used the term "terror" in mischaracterizing many aspects of this particular type of "crime." His administration has even called the American Teacher's Association as a terrorist organization.

This only adds to the point I'm making here. And besides, it's FAR too easy to "back up" that claim. you have failed to back up the claim that "they" think treating terrorism as a police action is "completely wrong"

from where im sitting...there is an across the board offensive on terrorism.. through police action, military action, political action, economic action...care to show otherwise?

Heinz · Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 1636 Location: Philadelphia

Quote: seems like the same line concerning the hadatha murders and the rape case....our hopes were dashed...because those stories were true...

I think you have that confused with the one where Marines/Sailors admitted to purposely killing the crippled elderly man earlier this week. Nothing has come ouf of haditha since the actual allegation. So John Murtha as of yet is still full of it.

How was the US supposed to know that MI5 had an operation going? I'm plenty sure the England didn't publically announce, even to our allies, that we were conducting an investigation on such a level. They thought they were putting pressure on a nation to merely arrest a guy that was wanted by the US.

Dookiestix · Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject:

Thrilla wrote: Dookiestix wrote: Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.

Quote: They complained that treating terrorism as a police action was completely wrong, who is "they"?... and please.. do back up that claim

Quote: The level of incompetence with this administration is stunning. I sincerely hope that with a Democratic Congress that we'll finally get what Americans have been demanding for some time now; accountability, responsibility, competency, honor, and finally a way to get the hell out of Iraq.... setting yourself up to get your hopes dashed i see :lol:
Ever hear of the "War on Terror?" :roll:

How's the "War on Drugs" going?

Bush declared a War on Terror, and has used conventional methods which have only destabilized an entire region and caused more death and destruction. He has mis-used the term "terror" in mischaracterizing many aspects of this particular type of "crime." His administration has even called the American Teacher's Association as a terrorist organization.

This only adds to the point I'm making here. And besides, it's FAR too easy to "back up" that claim. you have failed to back up the claim that "they" think treating terrorism as a police action is "completely wrong"
No, you're just not listening.

Here, let me help you:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/10/bush.kerry.terror/

Quote: "Terrorism is not a law enforcement matter, as John Kerry repeatedly says. Terrorist activities are not like gambling. Terrorist activities are not like prostitution. And this demonstrates a disconcerting pre-September 11 mindset that will not make our country safer. And that is what we see relative to winning the war on terror and relative to Iraq."
That was from Ed Gillespie, Republican Committee Chairman, backin 2004

Quote: from where im sitting...there is an across the board offensive on terrorism.. through police action, military action, political action, economic action...care to show otherwise?
That wasn't the point. The point was the politicization of terror, the use of ridiculous phrases like the War on Terror which means absolutely nothing except for one's own political gain, and the dispicable acts of calling Democrats and just about any perceived liberal group as a terrorist organization. Like the American Teacher's Association. Or liberals. Or anyone else against this war.

This is part of the reason why the GOP finally lost. They went way over the line in this regard, and the American people finally woke up. You don't fight terrorism by calling everybody who is your critic a terrorist.

But you knew that already, right? :wink:

sLiPpY · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 9550

No worries dookiestix!

The GOP is a "one trick elephant" and history will never let them live this down. :-D

Dookiestix · Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject:

sLiPpY wrote: No worries dookiestix!

The GOP is a "one trick elephant" and history will never let them live this down. :-D
I sincerely hope that you're right.

Alizard · Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:

Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.:

You could try to find information if you think this is insufficient.

rather than pretend we can't see what happened, shouldn't we just admit that what happened is that our agencies went in with their mouths on overdrive and forced Britain (and Blair) to toe the line?

As for your comment that there is "no information" on this, there has been tons of it. I remember reading much about it as well as details of why the Brits have to let such plots "run longer" than we do because their standards of proof are higher for conviction in conspiracy cases.

If you really wanted to find the truth, believe me when I say it's out there. And it is exactly what is reflected in the article: the Brits sacrificed their case for the demads of the US.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

I know you might like to see otherwise; but terror is a political act; as is war. All violence is a form of communication. That is why before anyone engages in it, they should ask: Is this violence an end in itself? Has anyone tried to communicate, or has the desire to express pain blinded everyone involved to the necessity of removing the cause of the pain?

The more we realize violence and terror, and treat them as objects rather than means to objects, the longer we will flounder in misery. They are not real. Do not make them real. See those who act violently as real and you will have removed the larger part of the need for violence. Consider violence as a failure to communicate, and step back, and try again to communicate. You can't kill every person for having a complaint. It might even be against the law.

CountryGuy · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 1018 Location: Pennsylvania

No offense, while I don't have any reason to think this is false... It would be nice to get some additional details and confirmed sources before condemning a country.

Unnamed sources scare me in many news accounts.

Dookiestix · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:24 am Post subject:

CountryGuy wrote: No offense, while I don't have any reason to think this is false... It would be nice to get some additional details and confirmed sources before condemning a country.

Unnamed sources scare me in many news accounts.
Who exactly is condemning a country?

Thrilla · Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 20866 Location: Sin City

Alizard wrote: Thrilla wrote: the article didnt go into much detail over anything really.. was the US aware of this guy in respect ot the MI5 operation?... was communication present?... it doesnt seem like it to me... but like i said.. there are no details.:

You could try to find information if you think this is insufficient.

rather than pretend we can't see what happened, shouldn't we just admit that what happened is that our agencies went in with their mouths on overdrive and forced Britain (and Blair) to toe the line?

As for your comment that there is "no information" on this, there has been tons of it. I remember reading much about it as well as details of why the Brits have to let such plots "run longer" than we do because their standards of proof are higher for conviction in conspiracy cases.

If you really wanted to find the truth, believe me when I say it's out there. And it is exactly what is reflected in the article: the Brits sacrificed their case for the demads of the US. you went through all that and didnt bring any info to the table?