Political Crossfire Forums

[Y2A]

Le Pen could possibly do better this time around and it seems that disdain for immigrants from muslim majority countries in France has reached a boiling point as even the Socialist candidate Segolene Royal has come to announce some anti-immigrant measures. I wonder however if the FN could ever be a true political force in France (like Vlaams Belang is in Belgium), aside from Le Pen's appeal as a politically shifting factor they seem to have no seats in the French National Assembly. Anyway, you can hear the audio by clicking the link and clicking "listen".

National Public Radio - Morning Edition
Quote: Europe's Right Turn
Anti-Immigrant Policy Boosts France's Le Pen Again
by Sylvia Poggioli


Jean-Marie Le Pen, presidential candidate of the right-wing French National Front party, opposes globalization and wants an immediate halt to immigration. AFP/Getty Images

Morning Edition, November 22, 2006 · Jean-Marie Le Pen, who rose to a surprising second-place finish in the French 2002 presidential election, is drawing support again this year for his anti-immigration stance. The extreme-right politician is pushing for a "national preference" welfare system that favors indigenous French over those with immigrant backgrounds.

Last week, Le Pen's National Front held a three-day presidential convention. It was a celebration of everything ultra-conservative and right-wing.

The convention included the traditional Latin mass, where the priest faces away from the faithful.


A Catholic priest celebrates mass at the National Front presidential convention near Paris.

In his homily, Father Bruno Schaeffer said, "France is not dead, and with the help of the leaders of the National Front, France will rise again to fulfill its duty as a Christian nation before God and the entire world."

Immigration -- code for Muslim immigration -- was the convention's hot-button issue.

Renaud Swarz, a young man from France's rust belt in the north, was wearing the blue, white and red colors of the French flag. He spat out his disdain for people of immigrant background.

"They should be kicked out," he said. "There's no place for them here. All those Arabs and Turks, they're not French. They want to bastardize France into an Arabic country."

Musicians dressed in old French military uniforms sang army songs.

Walls were covered with posters proclaiming "Le Pen for President" and "France, love it or leave it."

One stand celebrated pigs. It was a right-wing charity that had stirred a national controversy last year when it served pork soup, seen as a deliberate offense to Muslims.

The sense that French national identity and Europe's Christian culture are under threat was echoed by the priest, Father Schaeffer.


A poster with the message "France: Love It or Leave It" was on display at the National Front convention.

"Islam is to the 21st century what communism was to the 20th," he said. "Catholicism -- which is spread through the blood of its martyrs -- must fulfill its missionary role to evangelize and convert Muslims."

The convention climax was a speech by Le Pen.

Disdaining liberal intellectuals as bourgeois bohemians, the 78-year-old leader lashed out at the political establishment that he said opened up France to mass immigration, endangering its security and its identity.

Le Pen is calling for a return of French sovereignty over the European Union, including replacing the euro with the old franc.

He opposes globalization and wants an immediate halt to immigration, expulsion of illegal aliens and, above all, what he calls "national preference" -- a welfare system that favors indigenous French over those with immigrant backgrounds.

Known for remarks widely considered anti-Semitic, Le Pen was convicted by a German court in 1999 of minimizing the Holocaust. A paratrooper who fought against Algerian revolutionaries in the 1950s, he had been accused of torturing prisoners.

But political scientist Nonna Mayer, an expert on the National Front, says most people who vote for Le Pen are not swayed by his political ideology.

"They don't even read his program," Mayer says. "What they remember of Le Pen is one thing -- national preference, the idea that all problems are caused by the presence of immigrants and that we must be tougher with immigrants, and we must go back to the old traditional values. That is all they see."

The latest poll shows that 18 percent of the French say they'll vote for Le Pen next spring. That's double the level of his support in the same period before the last election.

And he now boasts support among nearly all social groups, including pensioners and blue-collar voters, who used to vote for the left, in urban areas like Paris as well as in rural communities.

[Akajjred]

Too be honest with you, I can kind of understand where they're coming from. I'm not racist in anyway, but I don't like people that move to the West, but refuse to adapt to the culture. That doesn't mean you can't keep aspects of your old culture, but for example Muslims causing violence because of someone excersizing their right of freedom of speech. You can't f***ing shoot a nun because someone portrayed Muhammad in a bad way or because the Pope said something MODERATLEY provocative. It's like if you don't like Western Culture and views, then Why the f**k did you move here? I hate immigrants in the West that b**** and moan about how much our culture s*cks and how terrible we are, yet they choose to live here. I don't want Western culture to be destroyed because too many immigrants move here. That doesn't mean they can't continue to practice Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, etc.

The other thing that pisses me off is the double standard that white people have to live with. If someone calls me a cracker I have to take it, but if I say something remotely racist it is a hate crime and I get sued. Some people accuse those people trying to protect Western culture as racist, but would Chinese people attempting to limit Western influence be viewed as racist? Japan has extremely strict immigration laws. The bad rap that white people get for the actions of our ancestors is rediculous.

With that said. Le Pen's promotion of a Christian France is nuts. You can't be prejudice to a certain race either, but that doesn't mean that wanting to keep Europe European is racist. Again, wouldn't China want to keep China Chinese? Wouldn't African countries want to keep their countries African.

I have no problem with immigrants that move and adapt to the culture ie learn the language, adopt the same values, and see that country as their new home.

[Canada_Rocks]

Y2A wrote: Le Pen could possibly do better this time around and it seems that disdain for immigrants from muslim majority countries in France has reached a boiling point as even the Socialist candidate Segolene Royal has come to announce some anti-immigrant measures. I wonder however if the FN could ever be a true political force in France (like Vlaams Belang is in Belgium), aside from Le Pen's appeal as a politically shifting factor they seem to have no seats in the French National Assembly. Anyway, you can hear the audio by clicking the link and clicking "listen".

National Public Radio - Morning Edition
Quote: Europe's Right Turn
Anti-Immigrant Policy Boosts France's Le Pen Again
by Sylvia Poggioli


Jean-Marie Le Pen, presidential candidate of the right-wing French National Front party, opposes globalization and wants an immediate halt to immigration. AFP/Getty Images

Morning Edition, November 22, 2006 · Jean-Marie Le Pen, who rose to a surprising second-place finish in the French 2002 presidential election, is drawing support again this year for his anti-immigration stance. The extreme-right politician is pushing for a "national preference" welfare system that favors indigenous French over those with immigrant backgrounds.

Last week, Le Pen's National Front held a three-day presidential convention. It was a celebration of everything ultra-conservative and right-wing.

The convention included the traditional Latin mass, where the priest faces away from the faithful.


A Catholic priest celebrates mass at the National Front presidential convention near Paris.

In his homily, Father Bruno Schaeffer said, "France is not dead, and with the help of the leaders of the National Front, France will rise again to fulfill its duty as a Christian nation before God and the entire world."

Immigration -- code for Muslim immigration -- was the convention's hot-button issue.

Renaud Swarz, a young man from France's rust belt in the north, was wearing the blue, white and red colors of the French flag. He spat out his disdain for people of immigrant background.

"They should be kicked out," he said. "There's no place for them here. All those Arabs and Turks, they're not French. They want to bastardize France into an Arabic country."

Musicians dressed in old French military uniforms sang army songs.

Walls were covered with posters proclaiming "Le Pen for President" and "France, love it or leave it."

One stand celebrated pigs. It was a right-wing charity that had stirred a national controversy last year when it served pork soup, seen as a deliberate offense to Muslims.

The sense that French national identity and Europe's Christian culture are under threat was echoed by the priest, Father Schaeffer.


A poster with the message "France: Love It or Leave It" was on display at the National Front convention.

"Islam is to the 21st century what communism was to the 20th," he said. "Catholicism -- which is spread through the blood of its martyrs -- must fulfill its missionary role to evangelize and convert Muslims."

The convention climax was a speech by Le Pen.

Disdaining liberal intellectuals as bourgeois bohemians, the 78-year-old leader lashed out at the political establishment that he said opened up France to mass immigration, endangering its security and its identity.

Le Pen is calling for a return of French sovereignty over the European Union, including replacing the euro with the old franc.

He opposes globalization and wants an immediate halt to immigration, expulsion of illegal aliens and, above all, what he calls "national preference" -- a welfare system that favors indigenous French over those with immigrant backgrounds.

Known for remarks widely considered anti-Semitic, Le Pen was convicted by a German court in 1999 of minimizing the Holocaust. A paratrooper who fought against Algerian revolutionaries in the 1950s, he had been accused of torturing prisoners.

But political scientist Nonna Mayer, an expert on the National Front, says most people who vote for Le Pen are not swayed by his political ideology.

"They don't even read his program," Mayer says. "What they remember of Le Pen is one thing -- national preference, the idea that all problems are caused by the presence of immigrants and that we must be tougher with immigrants, and we must go back to the old traditional values. That is all they see."

The latest poll shows that 18 percent of the French say they'll vote for Le Pen next spring. That's double the level of his support in the same period before the last election.

And he now boasts support among nearly all social groups, including pensioners and blue-collar voters, who used to vote for the left, in urban areas like Paris as well as in rural communities.

Good for france :clap:

[Canada_Rocks]

Quote: I'm not racist in anyway,

Don't go on the defensive. The only people who would call you a racist are morons who can't argue your points.

[slitedeviance]

Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

[Kumar]

It's nuts like this that give integrationists a bad name.

[Plato & Socrates]

slitedeviance wrote: Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

The clamour for people like Le-Pen to get into power will one day happen. These people need scape goats for why there country and lives are crap. If they were to forcible deport every Muslim and non-white person. How long will it be until they turn there venom onto the next group? The Jews would be next, then followed by the dark skinned Mediterranean Europeans. This is the nature of things. Take Russia for example, they have no immigration policy or problem and there lives are still s**t. Does that stop the neo-facist Nazis's, from targeting the few non Russians who live there? Are these people, immigrants Muslims who dont integrate?

There will always be a excuse for people like Le-Pen. He even went off his head and denounced the French world cup football team for having to many non-whites. 8 of the 11 were sons of immigrants. This was too much for Le-Pen. Was life any better under a Franco, Mussolini or Hitler regime? What about Jorge Haider in Austria, blaming peoples crap lives on immigrants. If it was'nt for immigrants life would be so wonderful. What a load of s**t. Take the Jews for example. Hard working, self sufficient, contributes more economically than they take out. They don't do street crime or muggings or burglary or sell drugs on the streets. And the far right and Le-Pen still hates them. What is the excuse and logic for that?

[Kumar]

It's funny. With all the problems in France, they think they'll magically disappear by blaming the scapegoat immigrants. Le Pen's election would do nothing to stop their decay. :)

[slitedeviance]

But Le Pen is really really funny...but it's really scary that people take him seriously...

Here's an idea for France... you don't want so many immigrants? Get rid of your horrendous farming subsidies. Restore fair trade to the former African colonies, and improve the lifestyle of those who look to emigrate to support their family. Stop paying your farmers to produce more food than can be used and traded, so that the emerging markets in northern africa grow and become large anough to grant a reasonable standard of living to the workers, and a good level of taxation to the government.

Get the students who transfer to France from Senegal and Cote D'Ivoire to stay in their countries and become the leaders that will help North Africa grow.

[mendosan]

slitedeviance wrote: But Le Pen is really really funny...but it's really scary that people take him seriously...

Here's an idea for France... you don't want so many immigrants? Get rid of your horrendous farming subsidies. Restore fair trade to the former African colonies, and improve the lifestyle of those who look to emigrate to support their family. Stop paying your farmers to produce more food than can be used and traded, so that the emerging markets in northern africa grow and become large anough to grant a reasonable standard of living to the workers, and a good level of taxation to the government.

Get the students who transfer to France from Senegal and Cote D'Ivoire to stay in their countries and become the leaders that will help North Africa grow.

P&S has just hit the nail on the head, people take him seriously because there lives are s**t, and they feel ignored by the current system, which means mainstream parties have to address the issues that are pissing them off or these people get elected. If people feel disenfranchised and people like Le Pen or in the UK Nick Griffin are they people that they feel will make there lives better there gonna vote for them.

Also remember that was poor working class people who fought the fascists at cable street. Battle of Cable Street

[sublime]

Shouldn't this thread be on another forum?

[Rankor and Pissing]

I've brought this up multiple times on PCF and was always told immigration of Muslims and adoption of culture is no big deal. It's just American media making a mountain out of a mole hill. I've been admonished for distributing propaganda.. bla bla bla.

So it is an issue? It's not the mindless and misguided American media after all? Well.... imagine that.

[thefranzkafkafront]

sublime wrote: Shouldn't this thread be on another forum?

do you just post this about eveything that isunt some smear on republicans/democrats.

Politics and goverment forum, live with it.

[thefranzkafkafront]

haha, they took our jobs, a durka dur!

[Revenant]

thefranzkafkafront wrote: haha, they took our jobs, a durka dur!

http://tookjobs.ytmnd.com/

:lol:

[Canada_Rocks]

slitedeviance wrote: Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

Who cares. Sometimes you just need to do something out of principle. Perhaps people on this forum forget that in REAL life you can't always disect and anylize events from your computer room. Sometimes a stand has to be made and it has to be un-PC

[Kumar]

Canada_Rocks wrote: slitedeviance wrote: Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

Who cares. Sometimes you just need to do something out of principle. Perhaps people on this forum forget that in REAL life you can't always disect and anylize events from your computer room. Sometimes a stand has to be made and it has to be un-PC
The problem is his solutions are idiotic. Proposing to ban all immigration is a moronic attempt to deal with the problem. The answer lies in restricting immigration, launch programs to help end the state of segregation, and break down the walls of xenophobia and racism present in French society (something like a third of French complained that too many coloreds were on their World Cup team--that's ridiculous.).

[thefranzkafkafront]

Revenant wrote: thefranzkafkafront wrote: haha, they took our jobs, a durka dur!

http://tookjobs.ytmnd.com/

:lol:

Essentailly summing up the entirety of nationalist party policies across the world.

[Akajjred]

slitedeviance wrote: Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

If you read my post you would notice I said Le Pen was nuts. I'm simply asking what is wrong with Europe wanting to keep Europe European?

[Akajjred]

Plato & Socrates wrote: slitedeviance wrote: Argue the points? Allow me then...

Anyone who thinks the election of Le Pen would be a good outcome for France has CLEARLY not taken a look at what this guys party is proposing. Their economic and immigration polices would hand in hand disable, fracture and distort the french economy, which would in turn lead to a destabilisation of the EU. If you think the destablisation of the EU is a positive step then you clearly have no idea how it would affect world trade, and the price you pay for goods.

Perhaps if someone could turn round and bring up some of the plans he has, and argue why that would be good for France, then this can be re-assesed. Until then you're throwing your support behind a party simply because you think they will take care of the immigrant problem, which is a big issue because France needs educated immigrants from the former African colonies, as much as those countries need to keep them.

The clamour for people like Le-Pen to get into power will one day happen. These people need scape goats for why there country and lives are crap. If they were to forcible deport every Muslim and non-white person. How long will it be until they turn there venom onto the next group? The Jews would be next, then followed by the dark skinned Mediterranean Europeans. This is the nature of things. Take Russia for example, they have no immigration policy or problem and there lives are still s**t. Does that stop the neo-facist Nazis's, from targeting the few non Russians who live there? Are these people, immigrants Muslims who dont integrate?

There will always be a excuse for people like Le-Pen. He even went off his head and denounced the French world cup football team for having to many non-whites. 8 of the 11 were sons of immigrants. This was too much for Le-Pen. Was life any better under a Franco, Mussolini or Hitler regime? What about Jorge Haider in Austria, blaming peoples crap lives on immigrants. If it was'nt for immigrants life would be so wonderful. What a load of s**t. Take the Jews for example. Hard working, self sufficient, contributes more economically than they take out. They don't do street crime or muggings or burglary or sell drugs on the streets. And the far right and Le-Pen still hates them. What is the excuse and logic for that?

What about immigrants that do cause a lot of social animosity and uproar. The hatred of the Jews goes much deeper for radical Christians. They are "Christ Killers." Obviously, I don't agree with this, but Jews economic success has little to do with their awful treatment.