Political Crossfire Forums

[usa-1]

In a CBS News/New York Times Poll 50% of Republicans raised their hands for torture of prisioners.

(http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm)

With the percentage identified I would like to discuss the degree of torture you would allow for poltical prisioners, or would you also include torture for All American prisioners as well? Maybe you want to include some non-prisioners into your personal equation, I don't know.

I think if torture is to be metted out it should include All American prisioners, and not just a select few political prisioners. That is the only way to insure justice and a balance in law and the legal system and the penal system. We wouldn't beat Blacks and not Whites or Browns or Yellows, or Muslims and not Christians etc. Equality for me is a must.

We may find republicans here agreeing to the torture of murderers and child molestors and a bum stealing a cup cake on his 3rd Strike. You call it, or do we include all prisioners and prison gangs?

I favor physical and psychological torture of a prisioner for the longest amount of time so he suffers and bleeds for months. Just some torture daily until he dies a horrific death, begging to die of the torturer. That torture might include electric shock, burns, drills, pins, racking, traveling Irons and many of the tortures used by the North Vietnam prison guards on USA prisoners or war. Executions are too fast for me regardless of beheadings, drugs, electric chairs, and gas. Slow is the means of torture.

My select prisoners who should receive torture in prisons would include, but not limited to, child molesters, drive by shooters or any crime where a gun was used, taking of life, and high-speed chase criminals.[/b]

I should add while I still can, I am Liberal to moderate on most issues until push comes to shove.

[slitedeviance]

usa-1 wrote: In a CBS News/New York Times Poll 50% of Republicans raised their hands for torture of prisioners.

(http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm)

With the percentage identified I would like to discuss the degree of torture you would allow for poltical prisioners, or would you also include torture for All American prisioners as well? Maybe you want to include some non-prisioners into your personal equation, I don't know.

I think if torture is to be metted out it should include All American prisioners, and not just a select few political prisioners. That is the only way to insure justice and a balance in law and the legal system and the penal system. We wouldn't beat Blacks and not Whites or Browns or Yellows, or Muslims and not Christians etc. Equality for me is a must.

We may find republicans here agreeing to the torture of murderers and child molestors and a bum stealing a cup cake on his 3rd Strike. You call it, or do we include all prisioners and prison gangs?

I favor physical and psychological torture of a prisioner for the longest amount of time so he suffers and bleeds for months. Just some torture daily until he dies a horrific death, begging to die of the torturer. That torture might include electric shock, burns, drills, pins, racking, traveling Irons and many of the tortures used by the North Vietnam prison guards on USA prisoners or war. Executions are too fast for me regardless of beheadings, drugs, electric chairs, and gas. Slow is the means of torture.

My select prisoners who should receive torture in prisons would include, but not limited to, child molesters, drive by shooters or any crime where a gun was used, taking of life, and high-speed chase criminals.[/b]

I should add while I still can, I am Liberal to moderate on most issues until push comes to shove.

I can't tell if this is meant to be satirical or not...I'll assume it's not.

It's weird that you should suffix your post with the last line, "Until push comes to shove". How would you define that? What point pushes you over the edge from moderate to "foaming at the mouth getting off on suffering demon dude"?

[agentkgb]

Uh, yeah, this is worded weird.
Is the thread supposed to be about whether troture's right or about the Republicans having supported it or what?

[wyldejackyl]

I can't say I agree with the torture of ANY prisoner. I think it's okay to force them to work, though. Not work 20 hour shifts with no food, mind you..but work, and work hard. Whatever happened to chain gangs and license plate factories? Hell, they at least get to go home to cable and a free college degree- the average working man doesn't get that coddled!

[Rodack]

Let me see, My choices are, being stripped naked and led around on a leash by a woman in combat fatigues or getting my head sliced off by 5 Terrorists, tough choice

[finale]

Rodack wrote: Let me see, My choices are, being stripped naked and led around on a leash by a woman in combat fatigues or getting my head sliced off by 5 Terrorists, tough choice

i hope you are kidding. if you are not, then your unparalleled stupidity is off the chart, way over NINE THOUSSSSAAND. surely lowering our ethnics to that of the terrorists and violating the terms of every humanitarian treaty we ever signed will sabotage or deter their attacks right?! right?!

[Rankor and Pissing]

finale wrote: Rodack wrote: Let me see, My choices are, being stripped naked and led around on a leash by a woman in combat fatigues or getting my head sliced off by 5 Terrorists, tough choice

i hope you are kidding. if you are not, then your unparalleled stupidity is off the chart, way over NINE THOUSSSSAAND. surely lowering our ethnics to that of the terrorists and violating the terms of every humanitarian treaty we ever signed will sabotage or deter their attacks right?! right?!

Hmm... kinda conflicted. I think battery cables, wire & solder, liquefied lead and small metal implements would be discriminated against if we didn't use them sometimes.

[MplsBison]

As our late great friend Sean Penn's character put it in Reservoir Dogs:

"If you beat this p***k long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire... now that don't necessarily make it f***ing so."

[agentkgb]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: As our late great friend Sean Penn's character put it in Reservoir Dogs:

"If you beat this p***k long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire... now that don't necessarily make it f***ing so."
Excellent point.

[b.scheller]

I love the people who are readily willing to sacrafice all their political and civil liberties, just so that the state can give them the feeling of pure bliss. Unfortunately, the world is not as black and white as George W. makes it out to be.

The last time I checked however, the United States government stands for the promotion of human rights. These human rights that are protected by the United States constituion, and ensure the fact that you even have the right to write such stupidity on the internet.

Just to dispell any potential criticism that only citizens are protected by the United States constitution, I'll make a parellel of something that could interest people who believe in selective citizenship!

In the twentieth century, a brutal regime, under a man who claimed to be of pure ethnic background, of some noble blood and of noble heritage, was the main actor in the drawing up of brutal laws. That came to be known as the Nurnberg Laws. These laws restricted German citizens of their rights, and stripped them of their citizenship, simply because they were not seen as to be of noble blood as the rest of the society. Of course, it's easy to know which brutal regime this was. Nazi Germany, and their victims; the Jews, the gypsies, homosexuals, disabled, religious minorities and political 'dissidents'.

Next thing you know, they'll be supporting insurance companies who go out and kill anyone who had dented your fender.

[Fido]

wyldejackyl wrote: I can't say I agree with the torture of ANY prisoner. I think it's okay to force them to work, though. Not work 20 hour shifts with no food, mind you..but work, and work hard. Whatever happened to chain gangs and license plate factories? Hell, they at least get to go home to cable and a free college degree- the average working man doesn't get that coddled!

What happened is: there is no amount of use full labor that has been done by prisoners in this country that might if done well buy them some necessities and dignity that have not been challenged by the capitalist class. They say only, I could be doing that for profit. Yes they might be doing it for profit if their workers wages were inflated with food stamps, or minimized beyond the ability to support life, or if the employer were paid by the government to train workers almost as soon disposed of as trained. Private employers do not like government competition from any source. That is why so much of a public nature remains un done. There is not enough profit in it to justify it being done for profit, but enough hope of profit to prevent the government doing it at cost. It is just another catch twenty two of politics.

[Nico]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: As our late great friend Sean Penn's character put it in Reservoir Dogs:

"If you beat this p***k long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire... now that don't necessarily make it f***ing so."

:lol: :clap:


Precisely why torture is a complete and utter waste of time, except for those who can't find an outlet for their psychosis in the civilian sector.

anybody who has even a little knowledge of what responses someone who expects to be tortured will give, has to realise that all information gained that way is suspect. even the russians knew that the only leverage you can really have, is through the people close to a target and not the target themselves. elementary stuff

[Rankor and Pissing]

jezus... quoting fictional movies to prove a point. Use of torture in the correct way, for the right amount of time is very effective and has been for close to 5000 years. If it wasn't effective, it wouldn't still be around. bulls**t like quotes from a movie doesn't make it so either.

Perhaps reading some historical information on how torture is used, how it can be effective and why it's been around for so long. Techniques America has are rudimentary (in my readings) compared to China, KGB, and even some other Asian countries. Educate yourself. Torture is useful, albeit not a very quick solution to find out information. Ask Congressman John McCain, who spilled everything to his Hanoi Hilton captors.

[MplsBison]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: jezus... quoting fictional movies to prove a point. Use of torture in the correct way, for the right amount of time is very effective and has been for close to 5000 years. If it wasn't effective, it wouldn't still be around. bulls**t like quotes from a movie doesn't make it so either.



Gambling in correct way, for the right amount of time is very effective and has been for close to 5000 years.


If you want to gamble that the information your torturee has told you, go ahead.

The fundamental point always remains: just because he told you it, doesn't mean it's true.

[Rankor and Pissing]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: jezus... quoting fictional movies to prove a point. Use of torture in the correct way, for the right amount of time is very effective and has been for close to 5000 years. If it wasn't effective, it wouldn't still be around. bulls**t like quotes from a movie doesn't make it so either.



Gambling in correct way, for the right amount of time is very effective and has been for close to 5000 years.


If you want to gamble that the information your torturee has told you, go ahead.

The fundamental point always remains: just because he told you it, doesn't mean it's true.

There's no gambling to it. Torture is only effective if the information obtained can be verified, and validated over multiple sessions. That is why quick torture is NOT effective... torture (if you read anything on the subject) is done effectively over periods of time - and multiple sessions. Skilled people who know what they are doing know what is a lie and what is not a lie.

[MplsBison]

Rankor and Pissing wrote:

There's no gambling to it. Torture is only effective if the information obtained can be verified, and validated over multiple sessions. That is why quick torture is NOT effective... torture (if you read anything on the subject) is done effectively over periods of time - and multiple sessions. Skilled people who know what they are doing know what is a lie and what is not a lie.

The point always remains: you can never know for sure if the information the torturee has told you is true.

[Judas]

Rodack wrote: Let me see, My choices are, being stripped naked and led around on a leash by a woman in combat fatigues or getting my head sliced off by 5 Terrorists, tough choice

How about we do neither.

[Judas]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: As our late great friend Sean Penn's character put it in Reservoir Dogs:

"If you beat this p***k long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire... now that don't necessarily make it f***ing so."

That was Chris Penn.

[superskippy]

It depends on what you call torture. There are methods you can use that would potentially violate some international protocols, but dont inflict any actual violence upon the person. Our common tactic which has proved highly effective, involves forcing the subject to sit on a short stool or chair which is angled forward (so that it is impossible to sit in a comfortable, stable position), and then tying their arms and legs behind them to the chair, while also covering their head with a bag and possibly subjecting them to extremely loud noise, such as music. The subject is then left in this condition for extended periods of time. Sleep is not allowed for the duration. Shebak has other methods that specialise in this area and sometimes cross the line into violent methods, but no one doubts that they have yielded enormous reults.

[MplsBison]

Judas wrote:
That was Chris Penn.

Yup.

My bad.