Political Crossfire Forums

[Moracca]

Proton wrote: Quote: Those of you who think of gay marriage as okay are example of the social decline in the West. The social decay and rot that we see on a daily basis.
Blah blah blah, blah blah.

The West in reality stands in it's highest point as far as technology, and the quality of life goes. WTF is "social" and how does it benefit me? Or anyone if more people are better off without it?

iGeneration babyeh!

Your ilk has been saying that since the ancient sumerians (seriously. There has been stone writings found of someone complaining about the "moral" decay of society)

Additionally, non-free or illogical societies cannot claim morality. For all we know, we are becoming more moral than we have ever been. (by smiting out incorrect rules and behaviors with no effect, other than to cause sadness and pain)

See my new signature for the real sign of moral decay.

Anyway, you have your beliefs and I have mine. No matter how much you or the gay mafia screams and shouts I'll never view the gay culture, lifestyle or union as on par with that of my parents or other hetro couples. Sorry.

Hey, once gays evolve into being able to make babies or pump one another without artificial lube let me know. Will ya?

[ontheyslay]

Moracca wrote: ontheyslay wrote: Moracca wrote: Those of you who think of gay marriage as okay are example of the social decline in the West. The social decay and rot that we see on a daily basis.

I picking up more and more of you the more that I post, I can't reply to all of you at one time and one of you has completely lost it and will be the first to earn a quote in my signature.

Anyway, I'd advocate a system where the government got out of marriage and based benefits on citizenship, not sexual orientation or marital status.

So what kind of drastic social meltdown would happen if gays got married?

Part of the meltdown is the gays themselves and the further meltdown is them being considered "normal" by people such as yourself. Marriage or not the decay has already happened.

Well I see your point. If we accept gays for what they are, gay people, then everyone will eventually turn gay and the world will implode, black will be white, up will be down, left will be right. I forsee the destruction of society, and it is by the GAYS OWN HAND!!!!!

Maybe if you read the words you will realize how ridiculous it is

[ontheyslay]

Moracca wrote: Proton wrote: Quote: Those of you who think of gay marriage as okay are example of the social decline in the West. The social decay and rot that we see on a daily basis.
Blah blah blah, blah blah.

The West in reality stands in it's highest point as far as technology, and the quality of life goes. WTF is "social" and how does it benefit me? Or anyone if more people are better off without it?

iGeneration babyeh!

Your ilk has been saying that since the ancient sumerians (seriously. There has been stone writings found of someone complaining about the "moral" decay of society)

Additionally, non-free or illogical societies cannot claim morality. For all we know, we are becoming more moral than we have ever been. (by smiting out incorrect rules and behaviors with no effect, other than to cause sadness and pain)

See my new signature for the real sign of moral decay.

Anyway, you have your beliefs and I have mine. No matter how much you or the gay mafia screams and shouts I'll never view the gay culture, lifestyle or union as on par with that of my parents or other hetro couples. Sorry.

Hey, once gays evolve into being able to make babies or pump one another without artificial lube let me know. Will ya?

How is this a decay of morals? What morals are you refering to exactly?

[Saracen]

soldierofsoul wrote: Saracen wrote: soldierofsoul wrote: That is another thing your religion comes before freedom, not saying anything to you, you can have your personal beliefs, but the countries in the Middle East need change, and if they don't wan't to, then America will make them change...

No, it doesn't. Religion comes with freedom. Yes, the MidEast needs change, and it is changing. America has no right to change it forcefully, as it has no moral position to do so.

Quote: Well I guess the thousands of people your muslim brotherin' killed means nothing?

Back before 1948? Please, read what I said again before you come up with a half-assed response.

Also how does religion come with freedom, democracy means the freedom of religion, does not your brotherin' agree with this, if not, then why not?

You're not addressing the point that I'm addressing. The issue here is Israel, not Islam. If you have a problem with Islam, there's a forum for it.

[Proton]

Quote: Part of the meltdown is the gays themselves and the further meltdown is them being considered "normal" by people such as yourself. Marriage or not the decay has already happened.
And it has gotten us... what? Short skirts for girls? Occasional long hair for boys? Ipods? The internet? Less international borders as opposed to the golden ages of the past? Upcoming cures for cancer or paralysis? The construction of an international space station? Fusion around the corner.

Who, the fk. Cares. If that's moral decay. I want to see the civilization built on it. And something tells me, it will the most glorious, most just, and the highest quality of life of them all. With some gays around.
Quote: See my new signature for the real sign of moral decay.
Your extremist, and unique example is rejected, I have provided, very secular, very freedom & logic respecting arguments for that context in this post:
Quote: Different subjects.

Association of gay marriage, with something different. A rhetoric tactic again, but not equivelant, therefore not relevant.

Incests are interesting, but risk genetic damage to the offspring, mind you that indeed this is the only reason I would ban them between siblings. (and maybe I would just ban procreation insteed). Incest between parents and child is clearly abuse belonging to pedophilia.

Now, as far as pedophilia goes, it is not consenting, or extensive brainwashing has taken place. And the act of brainwashing is a criminal act all of it's own.

As a result either act is either reducing/ violating the freedom for someone and allowing them, is not increasing freedom.

Unlike gay marriage, which is between two "soulmates" consenting adults,,, of the same sex.
As a result, they will be opposed. This time not by freedom reducing superstitious control freaks, like, say, someone around here. But by those who want to maintain freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Quote: Hey, once gays evolve into being able to make babies or pump one another without artificial lube let me know. Will ya?
Evolution or nature, is not the measure with which to measure MAN. Dams are not natural. Airplanes are not natural, we are Homo Sapiens and we do things for OUR pleasure, not to copy the animals. We are above nature... or if you will, part of it. Humans are natural too, so everything we do is part of nature. We might not have evolved this or that, but we have certainly evolved the ability to create this or that.

[Ek0nomik]

Moracca wrote: You trip the wire when you dismiss the beliefs of others simply as "bullcrap".

Moracca wrote: It takes more faith to believe that we were created by two big rocks that slammed into one another followed by a space dragon jizzing on the mess afterwards....or whatever the story is....than it does to have faith that there is some sort of higher power that created us. Atheism is bullcrap of the mut cattle kind.

Contradiction?

Proton: You haven't said this yet, but would you agree that the burden of proof is on those who believe in God to prove His existence? That seems to be the general consensus in the scientific community, and I wholeheartedly agree.

[Chymical]

I thought we were not allowed to bait people by posting their quotes in our sigs?

I want Tracker to come in and tell you all about crotchsniffing...that'll show you.

Should cousins be allowed to marry Morracca? That's quite the islamic custom in some cultural sub-sets isn't it? You get about a 5% raise in the chance of downs syndrome children being born though...what do you reckon, cool or not cool?

[Ek0nomik]

Moracca wrote: ...and on the other side of the coin maybe leftists will wake up and realize that its not the end of the US if gays don't get married.

Is it the end of the world if abortion stays legal? Is it the end of the world if we have universal health care? Is it the end of the world if we stay in Iraq for 10 more years?

Nixon wrote: You must not have gotten the memo.

If you are against gay marriage, you might as well move back to the plantation and buy some slaves to work it. You are more of a threat than Bin Laden if you think gay people shouldn't wed.

funny world we live in, isn't it?

You must not have gotten the eighth grade history book. Congress continually works on more than one issue.

[Proton]

Quote: Proton: You haven't said this yet, but would you agree that the burden of proof is on those who believe in God to prove His existence? That seems to be the general consensus in the scientific community, and I wholeheartedly agree.
You are very lucky, (well, or not, depends what you think of it) to have posted about this in page 1:

Someone said:
Quote:
Thanks for the essay, but you simply cannot prove that there is no God and cannot prove where everything started from. Just as I cannot prove that there is a God or that you are wrong in your beliefs.

You trip the wire when you dismiss the beliefs of others simply as "bullcrap".
And I replied
Quote:
I don't need to prove the non-existant. This is impossible and it's a philosophical fallacy called negative proof.
The same way the (ideal) justice system won't work until people bring proof that someone committed a crime, and proof that he is a criminal.

There are two ways of organising a society, top to bottom, and bottom to top. Top to bottom is when a structure/beliefs, comes out with everything already figured out, and gets imposed. That would be, say, a religion and it's holy scriptures. Bottom to top, is when we built on what is already know (eg, I am therefore I exist. 1=1 therefore 1+1=1+1 and you can shorten that to 2) and then we move to the next level. That would be science, and it is based on positive proof.

It is INSANE to organize a society top to bottom, because anyone can come up with anything. And I say that there is an invisible pink rabbit demanting sacrifices every hour, and that if we don't do that, the righteous won't go to heaven and the evil will reign. What is one person in front of eternal justice eh?

This is, to any "logical" person would be called delusion and insanity, yet strangely, if many people believed that it somehow becomes "religion" to be protected and respected unless you prove that an invisible pink rabbit demanding sacrifices, does not in fact exist.

Well, you know what. We have had plenty of that. We have had the aztecs sacrificing virgins for good crops. We have had the africans cutting clitoris off and pretenting that it is something other than what a sexually control freak obsessed priest came up with. We have had the ancient Jews killing the native "palestinians" because they were the "chosen" people. We have had Islam covering women faces god knows for what. We have had the Christians, excepting oppressing science in Europe, except hunting imaginery witches (but making real murders) in Europe, except "Christianizing" the ancient greeks, the pagans, and the americas, even today not willing to erase the part of the bible that the crime for a boy to hug his boyfriend is death (even if that opinion lays low today in our evil, yet strangely most advanced than ever, secular west).

Well, we have had enough of that. I call it bullcrap. And it is time to organize our society on positive proofs. You either prove that, or I say you make it up.

EDIT: Whoops, sorry, wrong quote/post. This was the correct one.

[Ek0nomik]

Moracca wrote: Boo-da-fuk-hoo. Go to Canada or convert to Judaism and go to Israel if your a male sausage jockey who wants to marry your BF.

An excellent example of religion beating up upon itself. I take it your Christian Moracca? I have nothing against Christians, but I just find it interesting that you're beating up on yourself like this.

[Ek0nomik]

Moracca wrote: But seriously, gays have access to everything married straights do under different titles except when it comes to taxes.

Yes, one of my best friends chooses to be bisexual strictly for the economic gain. Makes sense.

[Ek0nomik]

Proton: k. I just wanted to see if we were on the same page? Out of curiosity, have you read or heard of The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins? I presume you have. I downloaded the audiobook of it, and have been listening piece by piece. Very interesting so far. :-D

[soldierofsoul]

Saracen wrote: soldierofsoul wrote: Saracen wrote: soldierofsoul wrote: That is another thing your religion comes before freedom, not saying anything to you, you can have your personal beliefs, but the countries in the Middle East need change, and if they don't wan't to, then America will make them change...

No, it doesn't. Religion comes with freedom. Yes, the MidEast needs change, and it is changing. America has no right to change it forcefully, as it has no moral position to do so.

Quote: Well I guess the thousands of people your muslim brotherin' killed means nothing?

Back before 1948? Please, read what I said again before you come up with a half-assed response.

Also how does religion come with freedom, democracy means the freedom of religion, does not your brotherin' agree with this, if not, then why not?

You're not addressing the point that I'm addressing. The issue here is Israel, not Islam. If you have a problem with Islam, there's a forum for it.

No your avoiding the question...and sorry but that's your problem.

[Proton]

Quote: Proton: k. I just wanted to see if we were on the same page? Out of curiosity, have you read or heard of The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins? I presume you have. I downloaded the audiobook of it, and have been listening piece by piece. Very interesting so far. Very Happy
I have heard about it, but haven't read it so far. It's on the "to do" list. :-D

[Ek0nomik]

I feel like it should also be pointed out, in case a lot of you aren't actually reading the article, that Israel isn't allowing same-sex marriage to occur within the country. They are simply recognizing same-sex marriages performed abroad.

[Proton]

It's a step towards the right direction though, and a pretty big, if-it-was-a-hole-a-tanker-can-pass-from-it step.

Maybe gays can spontaneously declare the square cms they are standing on independent. Announce sovereignty, name their country, marry, then announce the desolution and unconditional surrender of said sq centimeters back to Israel and then have their foreign marriage recognized? :P

[Ek0nomik]

Proton wrote: It's a step towards the right direction though, and a pretty big, if-it-was-a-hole-a-tanker-can-pass-from-it step.

Maybe gays can spontaneously declare the square cms they are standing on independent. Announce sovereignty, name their country, marry, then announce the desolution and unconditional surrender of said sq centimeters back to Israel and then have their foreign marriage recognized? :P

For some reason, I don't see this little strategery of yours working. :P

[Chymical]

it worked for your dad...

oh BURN!!!

[Ek0nomik]

Chymical wrote: it worked for your dad...

oh BURN!!!

Don't you have school tomorrow or something?

[Proton]

> Proton smacks Chymical for 128 points of damage.