Political Crossfire Forums

[Timmytour]

Gdawg007 wrote:

The more we isolate the "terrorist" supporting states, the more we encourage them to band together. The best way to defeat any group is to divide them.

That just about sums up why Bush is proving such a failure. His whole strategy has revolved around uniting the enemy and bringing different groups into the fight.

[Dookiestix]

So now that Iraq and Syria are diplomatically engaged again, does this mean that Iraq will get all their WMDs back?

[mendosan]

The Ferryman wrote: mendosan wrote: The American wrote: Timmytour wrote: Is this a mark of progress in Iraq?

At about the same time that America was restoring diplomatic relations with Saddam the State Department was removing Iraq from its list of states supporting international terrorism, diplomatic relations between Iraq and Syria were severed.

How things change. Despite the American hostility towards Syria and its presence in Iraq, Syria and Iraq have now restored diplomatic relations.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2002057.ece

Quote: Iraq and Syria restore diplomatic relations
AP
Published: 21 November 2006
Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.

"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.
"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Increasingly I get the feeling that Bush has been played for a fool and anticipated with ease.

The whole Iraqi situation seems to be playing into every "unfriendly" nations hands and not the USA´s :(

It is my opinion, we should stick to our guns and not negotiate with terrorist states. Especially in the building of a free nation. Syria is a puppet of Iran, in who continually supports terrorist activities and who ignores the call to disband pursuing nuclear capabilities. I have noticed this change in direction after 06 elections. I wonder what influence this has had if any?

Trig.

Syria isn't a puppet of Iran, what the US should be doing is engaging with Syria to isolate Iran, but you have f****d that up, Bush should have opened up Syria like Nixon opened up China.

Syria not a puppet of Iran? Good God man, how the hell do you think Iranian armaments got into the hands of Hezbollah in Lebanon? Do you think they were FedEx'd there, bypassing Syria? :lol:

How does that make Syria a puppet? They already have a vested interest in Hezbollah as there pro-Syrian. Syria also wants the Golan heights back from Israel.

[The Ferryman]

mendosan wrote: The Ferryman wrote: mendosan wrote: The American wrote: Timmytour wrote: Is this a mark of progress in Iraq?

At about the same time that America was restoring diplomatic relations with Saddam the State Department was removing Iraq from its list of states supporting international terrorism, diplomatic relations between Iraq and Syria were severed.

How things change. Despite the American hostility towards Syria and its presence in Iraq, Syria and Iraq have now restored diplomatic relations.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2002057.ece

Quote: Iraq and Syria restore diplomatic relations
AP
Published: 21 November 2006
Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.

"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.
"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Increasingly I get the feeling that Bush has been played for a fool and anticipated with ease.

The whole Iraqi situation seems to be playing into every "unfriendly" nations hands and not the USA´s :(

It is my opinion, we should stick to our guns and not negotiate with terrorist states. Especially in the building of a free nation. Syria is a puppet of Iran, in who continually supports terrorist activities and who ignores the call to disband pursuing nuclear capabilities. I have noticed this change in direction after 06 elections. I wonder what influence this has had if any?

Trig.

Syria isn't a puppet of Iran, what the US should be doing is engaging with Syria to isolate Iran, but you have f****d that up, Bush should have opened up Syria like Nixon opened up China.

Syria not a puppet of Iran? Good God man, how the hell do you think Iranian armaments got into the hands of Hezbollah in Lebanon? Do you think they were FedEx'd there, bypassing Syria? :lol:

How does that make Syria a puppet? They already have a vested interest in Hezbollah as there pro-Syrian. Syria also wants the Golan heights back from Israel.

Okay 'Chucky'....I'll agree with you that Syria is not a puppet of Iran if you agree that Israel is not a puppet of the U.S..

[The Ferryman]

then there's this......old news.......

www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2005/me_syria_12_19.html


And, then who goes nuclear next after Iran? You guessed it!

[Timmytour]

The Ferryman wrote: then there's this......old news.......

www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2005/me_syria_12_19.html


And, then who goes nuclear next after Iran? You guessed it!

Iraq? :shock:

[The Ferryman]

Timmytour wrote: The Ferryman wrote: then there's this......old news.......

www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2005/me_syria_12_19.html


And, then who goes nuclear next after Iran? You guessed it!

Iraq? :shock:


I swear T-Tour, I'm envious of people like you who float through life on brainpower alone.

[Timmytour]

The Ferryman wrote: Timmytour wrote: The Ferryman wrote: then there's this......old news.......

www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2005/me_syria_12_19.html


And, then who goes nuclear next after Iran? You guessed it!

Iraq? :shock:


I swear T-Tour, I'm envious of people like you who float through life on brainpower alone.

:lol:

[_Kev_]

Timmytour wrote:
I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, just that it's going to a helluva job for Bush to square his rhetoric of the past with what happens going forward.

For me, the Bush "cheerleading" is a big part of the problem. His words have done more to place obstacles in the path to this sort of thing then anything. Nobody judges cheerleaders on the things they come out with, but I think Bush is struggling with the concept that a president is usually bound by his words, unless he precedes a different direction with an apology.

"Cowboy diplomacy" and demonizing all alternatives, at home and abroad, has painted the right into a corner. This situation is surely the best example of this (and potentially the most destructive to our security).

Personally, I have faith that even this administration will see the wisdom in talking to our enemies at last despite their pride.

Why I have that faith, I have no idea.

[mendosan]

The Ferryman wrote: mendosan wrote: The Ferryman wrote: mendosan wrote: The American wrote: Timmytour wrote: Is this a mark of progress in Iraq?

At about the same time that America was restoring diplomatic relations with Saddam the State Department was removing Iraq from its list of states supporting international terrorism, diplomatic relations between Iraq and Syria were severed.

How things change. Despite the American hostility towards Syria and its presence in Iraq, Syria and Iraq have now restored diplomatic relations.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2002057.ece

Quote: Iraq and Syria restore diplomatic relations
AP
Published: 21 November 2006
Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.

"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq were restored today after being severed 24 years ago.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said: "The latest talks between the Syrian and Iraqi side have been crowned by declaring a new era with the participation of the Syrian brothers in working on the security and stability with Iraq and restoring full diplomatic relations."

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem arrived in Iraq on Sunday in the first such visit by a senior Syrian official since the 2003 fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. He was expected to return to Damascus later today.

After the signing ceremony, Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told reporters that the names of ambassadors would be announced soon.
"Iraq's flag will fly in the sky of Damascus and Syria's flag will fly in the sky of Baghdad," Zebari said.

On arrival, Moallem had called for a timetable for the withdrawal of US forces, saying that would reduce violence.

Zebari said the presence of the 140,000-strong American force was "approved by the Iraqi government".

Syria broke diplomatic ties with Iraq in 1982, accusing it of inciting riots in Syria by the banned Muslim Brotherhood. Damascus also sided with Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

Trade ties between Iraq and Syria were restored in 1997.

Increasingly I get the feeling that Bush has been played for a fool and anticipated with ease.

The whole Iraqi situation seems to be playing into every "unfriendly" nations hands and not the USA´s :(

It is my opinion, we should stick to our guns and not negotiate with terrorist states. Especially in the building of a free nation. Syria is a puppet of Iran, in who continually supports terrorist activities and who ignores the call to disband pursuing nuclear capabilities. I have noticed this change in direction after 06 elections. I wonder what influence this has had if any?

Trig.

Syria isn't a puppet of Iran, what the US should be doing is engaging with Syria to isolate Iran, but you have f****d that up, Bush should have opened up Syria like Nixon opened up China.

Syria not a puppet of Iran? Good God man, how the hell do you think Iranian armaments got into the hands of Hezbollah in Lebanon? Do you think they were FedEx'd there, bypassing Syria? :lol:

How does that make Syria a puppet? They already have a vested interest in Hezbollah as there pro-Syrian. Syria also wants the Golan heights back from Israel.

Okay 'Chucky'....I'll agree with you that Syria is not a puppet of Iran if you agree that Israel is not a puppet of the U.S..

Stop getting your info from FOX news then we can talk.

[Plato & Socrates]

mendosan wrote:

Syria isn't a puppet of Iran, what the US should be doing is engaging with Syria to isolate Iran, but you have f****d that up, Bush should have opened up Syria like Nixon opened up China.

Come on Mendosan, that would have required Bush and his neo-con cohorts to think and have a modicum of foresight. :roll: Dividing Syria and Iran would have been a great strategy. But this old divide and rule stunt is getting a bit long in the tooth and we have used it too much. Nations can see our ploys a mile off and act accordingly.

Secondly and most importantly, Assad by all the murmurings of the last 6 months, appears to not be in full control of Syria. ie; there are other powers behind the throne. How true this is, I dont know yet. But when Channel 4 news at 7pm and Newsnight run stories on this same issue, its good to take note.

[Ameriman]

Timmytour wrote:

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, just that it's going to a helluva job for Bush to square his rhetoric of the past with what happens going forward.

For me, the Bush "cheerleading" is a big part of the problem. His words have done more to place obstacles in the path to this sort of thing then anything. Nobody judges cheerleaders on the things they come out with, but I think Bush is struggling with the concept that a president is usually bound by his words, unless he precedes a different direction with an apology.

And people say the neo-cons are unbending....

You are so desperate to hear Bush admit that he is wrong that you are willing to bend your own ideals?

Just to get this straight.

You don't think this is a bad thing but because Bush may have continued the policy of considering Syria a terrorist supporting nation...this somehow equates to a failure of Bush's part?

If Bush were to move to stop this from taking place...you would come out as everyone else did on Iran and say that he is short-sighted and a failure.

Don't you realize what you are compromising as a result of your blind hatred for Bush?

[Timmytour]

Ameriman wrote: Timmytour wrote:

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, just that it's going to a helluva job for Bush to square his rhetoric of the past with what happens going forward.

For me, the Bush "cheerleading" is a big part of the problem. His words have done more to place obstacles in the path to this sort of thing then anything. Nobody judges cheerleaders on the things they come out with, but I think Bush is struggling with the concept that a president is usually bound by his words, unless he precedes a different direction with an apology.

And people say the neo-cons are unbending....

You are so desperate to hear Bush admit that he is wrong that you are willing to bend your own ideals?

Just to get this straight.

You don't think this is a bad thing but because Bush may have continued the policy of considering Syria a terrorist supporting nation...this somehow equates to a failure of Bush's part?

If Bush were to move to stop this from taking place...you would come out as everyone else did on Iran and say that he is short-sighted and a failure.

Don't you realize what you are compromising as a result of your blind hatred for Bush?

As is often the case with you, I really struggle to see what relation your response bears to anything I've said. I don't see why you continually ask me to justify commenrts I've never made or stances I've never taken :roll:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010927-1.html
Quote: The attacks on America were intended to break our spirit. But the evildoers failed. It's a fabulous land; we're lucky to live in it. It's a land -- (applause.) They have stirred a mighty nation to action, and the world is seeing what we're made out of. The world sees our resolves and is willing to follow. The world sees our commitment to freedom, as it impressed. The world sees our compassion toward one another, as neighbor helps neighbor; as neighbor grieves with neighbor; as people from all across our country want to hold the families who have been dangered -- who have been hurt in their arms.

The world sees a nation at prayer -- Christian, Jew and Muslim, alike -- praying for strength to an almighty and merciful God. The world is beginning to see the best of this great land. The world is beginning to understand why we all treasure America so much -- our values, our freedom and the strength of the American character.

No, they thought they attacked America and hurt us. We are stronger than ever, and we will prove it to the world.

What Bush thought the world saw in America back then, it certainly doesn't see now. As horrible an event as 9/11 was, much of the world sympathised and stood by America because for all her faults there was still an overiding feeling of admiration and respect.

To my mind much of that has disappeared now. Replaced by an overriding sense that Bush's America is overtly hypocritical. Dictators are not to be tolerated and democracy and freedom must ring across the world....that is, unless you are a dictator who is on friendly terms with the US. And if you are a democracy on good terms with the US then the US will do what it can to protect your sovereignty....that is, unless an even more friendly nation fancies launching a military action in your country.

For me, the coming together of Syria and Iraq is an indication that the US is being sidelined, that it's influence is in decline. That's why I have my reservations. For all the accusations that Bush throws at Syria about how evil it is, virtually one of the Iraqis governments first truly independent acts of foreign policy is to restore relations to a level they never were for a long time under Saddam even.

If Iraq becomes a country that acquiesces quietly to the same kind of Iranian and Syrian influences that are allegedly being bought to bear on Lebanon, then in this atmosphere of sidelining the US, the result will be closer to the objectives pursued by Al Qaeda rather than those proclaimed by Bush.

On the other hand, if the US got off of its high horse and joined in the discussions, then a more desireable outcome might be achieved.

But Bush has set his stall out elsewhere. So that ain't gonna happen like that unless he packs it up and brings it nearer to where he's got a decent chance of selling something from it.