Political Crossfire Forums

[Sands]

Mr. Sunshine wrote: So, you cannot provide a source to actualize the true percentage of Islamofascists within the Muslim religion and NOW you are trying to say that Muslims who are not radicalized vote for radical political parties in Pakistan and Indonesia for fun?
I don't have to provide a source for anything... I'm not claiming ANY percentages...YOU are!

I just stated that I believed your FACTS were wrong.

Your proof is quoting VOTING TRENDS.... Not actual numbers of radical Islamists.

I can not help the fact that your arguments are factually incorrect and that your comprehension of these facts is lacking.

[Charlie Man]

Would you say that the republican party is explicitly christian, sun?
I would, though perhaps a better comparison could be made to Israel.

You're equating "Explicitly Islamic" with "Radically Islamic" here, that's teh fallacy that makes your claim bunk. The constant abuse and demands for counter-proof are just red herrings if it's obvious that your numbers don't show what you think they do.

Imagine if, in court, if the prosecution claimed that the man was innocent becasue of the position of the moon, when they defense pointed out that this was silly, would the prosecution ask the defense to prove that he was innocent?
No, of course not. The accuser, or in this case the poster, must prove his or her charges beyond reasonable doubt, that is where the burden of proof rests.

On YOU.

[The Ferryman]

Sands wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: So, you cannot provide a source to actualize the true percentage of Islamofascists within the Muslim religion and NOW you are trying to say that Muslims who are not radicalized vote for radical political parties in Pakistan and Indonesia for fun?
I don't have to provide a source for anything... I'm not claiming ANY percentages...YOU are!

I just stated that I believed your FACTS were wrong.

Your proof is quoting VOTING TRENDS.... Not actual numbers of radical Islamists.

I can not help the fact that your arguments are factually incorrect and that your comprehension of these facts is lacking.


To get an actual number of radical Islamists, maybe we should do a sand dune to sand dune in-person census. And you go first!

[Sands]

As much as I hate using Conservative sources, here's an article from a well respected veteran reporter published in The American Conservative

Here's a portion:

"Ninety-nine percent of the world’s 1.2 billion Muslims are moderate and see jihad as a self-cleansing process to get back on the path of spiritual excellence. Presidents Mubarak, Musharraf, Ben Ali (Tunisia), Kings Abdullah II of Jordan, Fahd of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed VI of Morocco, and other moderate Muslim leaders, all have told this reporter in the past two years that Islamist extremists are no more than 1 percent of their population.

When we reminded Musharraf that one percent of 140 million is 1.4 million, he said, “you’re right, but I’d never thought of it that way.” Now he realizes it’s a lot more than one percent as politico-religious extremists won the provincial government in the Northwest Frontier Province adjacent to Afghanistan, a share of the Baluchistan government, and 20 percent of the seats in the new national parliament.

One percent of 1.2 billion is 12 million Muslim fanatics who believe America is the Great Satan, fount of all evil, to be attacked and demolished. Whether al-Qaeda is centralized as it was before 9/11 or decentralized, as it appears to be after Bali and Mombassa, is immaterial. Islam is the world’s fastest growing religion. From Sweden (660,000 Muslims out of 5.8 million people) to Switzerland (also 10 percent), Senegal and Somalia in Africa, Sumatra and Singapore in Asia, and South America (especially Brazil and Venezuela), there are Wahhabi and Deobandi mosques. And that’s just the countries beginning with the letter S."
______________________

So 1% of 1.2 billion equals 12 million radical Islamists and 15% would equal 180 million radical Islamists.

I would agree with the 1% figure, which is logical, albeit frightening. If there were 180,000,000 radical Islamists out there...the world as we know it would have been in deep trouble. :(

[Mr. Sunshine]

Life in the burrito of self delusion must be fun. If I get you guys to agree with 1% or 12 million. Mission accomplished. 8:)

[Sands]

Then I'll have to quote the factually incorrect tidbit that led to this point:

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Vast deception leads to vast ignorance. Radical Islam accounts for 15% of all Muslims worldwide. What is that number? You do the math. THOSE Islamofascists are a very real danger by number and violent acts. 8:)

Let's see that 85% take back their hijacked religion of peace and end the ignorance.

Now tell us again...who's delusional?

[Mr. Sunshine]

Sands wrote: Then I'll have to quote the factually incorrect tidbit that led to this point:

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Vast deception leads to vast ignorance. Radical Islam accounts for 15% of all Muslims worldwide. What is that number? You do the math. THOSE Islamofascists are a very real danger by number and violent acts. 8:)

Let's see that 85% take back their hijacked religion of peace and end the ignorance.

Now tell us again...who's delusional?

YOU ARE! There is hope because you admitted Islamofascists exist within Islam millions strong. Your toilet paper link is perfect for my Rand PhD to use. Unless you would like to argue that Muslim voters in Muslim countries voting for radical Islamic parties are not voting their conscience, and are only moderates. That is a whole extra thick blanket of protection against your fears. Hamas won the election in Palestine because the minority and not the majority support the terror organization. :rofl:

Get real. 8:)

[Sands]

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Sands wrote: Then I'll have to quote the factually incorrect tidbit that led to this point:

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Vast deception leads to vast ignorance. Radical Islam accounts for 15% of all Muslims worldwide. What is that number? You do the math. THOSE Islamofascists are a very real danger by number and violent acts. 8:)

Let's see that 85% take back their hijacked religion of peace and end the ignorance.

Now tell us again...who's delusional?

YOU ARE! There is hope because you admitted Islamofascists exist within Islam millions strong. Your toilet paper link is perfect for my Rand PhD to use. Unless you would like to argue that Muslim voters in Muslim countries voting for radical Islamic parties are not voting their conscience, and are only moderates. That is a whole extra thick blanket of protection against your fears. Hamas won the election in Palestine because the minority and not the majority support the terror organization. :rofl:

Get real. 8:)

I never denied there being millions of radical Islamists, just your claim of hundreds of millions, which you keep trying to distance yourself from.

The rest of your arguments about voting are incidental and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

You were proven wrong...get over it

I have. :lol:

[TomStall]

Without being on the plane, you definately can't say for sure, but since most of the terrorism in the world today is being committed by Arabs, then yes, racial profiling definately is going to occur. Yes if several Muslims that entered the plane separately stood up and started praying loudly, maybe not as big of a deal. But if they group together and start praying, yes that becomes a whole lot more suspicious. And if they did go sit together, and they actually were making anti-American and pro-Saddam comments, then yes this would be even more troubling.



Pretty much, if we should know that Muslims pray in a certain way in a certain time, then they most certaintly know that they way they act is going to be scrutinized. And they should know that 6 Arabs who board separately with separate seats that come together to talk and pray are going to look extrememly suspicious, regardless of how much people know about Islam. Seeing as they live in America, and have most likely travelled by plane before, not knowing this is complete ignorance on their part.



Pretty much, if you're walking in a bad neighborhood after dark, and you see 3 big, black guys trailing behind you, you're gonna be worried about your safety, regardless of whether or not you're in any danger. Maybe it's ignorance on the passengers part, but it is no less ignorant on the part of the imams. All I know is if I'm sitting there, and I see 3 arabs from different sections of the plane group together and start praying, you can bet your *** that I'm worried as hell.



But once again, without being on the plane, who really knows if this was an overreaction or if the imams truly were acting suspiciously.

[Mr. Sunshine]

Sands wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Sands wrote: Then I'll have to quote the factually incorrect tidbit that led to this point:

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Vast deception leads to vast ignorance. Radical Islam accounts for 15% of all Muslims worldwide. What is that number? You do the math. THOSE Islamofascists are a very real danger by number and violent acts. 8:)

Let's see that 85% take back their hijacked religion of peace and end the ignorance.

Now tell us again...who's delusional?

YOU ARE! There is hope because you admitted Islamofascists exist within Islam millions strong. Your toilet paper link is perfect for my Rand PhD to use. Unless you would like to argue that Muslim voters in Muslim countries voting for radical Islamic parties are not voting their conscience, and are only moderates. That is a whole extra thick blanket of protection against your fears. Hamas won the election in Palestine because the minority and not the majority support the terror organization. :rofl:

Get real. 8:)

I never denied there being millions of radical Islamists, just your claim of hundreds of millions, which you keep trying to distance yourself from.

The rest of your arguments about voting are incidental and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

You were proven wrong...get over it

I have. :lol:

I am standing by my source and their credibility to determine that there are 11-20% of radicalized Muslims in the Islam community. You have proven nothing except that you cannot accept that fact. You have a completely unsupported argument to substantiate your claims that radical Muslims are limited to a whopping 12 million. To even concede 12 million Islamofascists and then marginalize it illustrates the depth of your need to delude yourself into not recognizing the threat. Time to unzip the sleeping bag of self deception. Get out of it, then you can get over it. 8:)

Islamofascists kill innocent people to further their agenda. People fear that. People want to know how many Muslims are radicalized and so does Rand. They hire a PhD, not Sands. :rofl:

[Tetracide]

Mr. Left, if no one has already, I am accusing you of outright plagiarism. Without sourcing your first post, you have led others to believe they were your own words and own ideas. That is theft sir.

In my opinion, plagiarism is the most embarrassing thing to get caught for.

Read the forum rules about starting a thread based on an article, and always cite your sources. I hope many remember this thread.