Political Crossfire Forums

[Canada_Rocks]

Quote: But you just said the guns bought are not being used. So how would you justify more gun control if .01% of those guns are used to kill someone? Seriously, the hoplophobia is worse then you may think.

I am glad somebody else caught Luke's strange way of justifying things.

[Lucky Luke]

Canada_Rocks wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself.

You won't stop smuggling with guns, you just make the act more dangerous and life threatening.

:-D
:-D

I can even the odds by owning a gun.

You just make it more likely to happen, the American experience is showing you just that.

:-D
:-D

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote:

Wow, had to edit the post two times to get the sarcasm just right, eh?
I love satire.

Man, ambigious as well. You're a comic genius Wolverine. Seriously, why do you waste your time here with these folk?

wolverine wrote:
Quote: I never suggested that ALL firearms not used in murders were not used at all. It is one explanation for why you don't have a murder rate on par with the number of guns sold.
Grow up.
But you just said the guns bought are not being used. So how would you justify more gun control if .01% of those guns are used to kill someone? Seriously, the hoplophobia is worse then you may think.

Actually, and you just quoted it, I said it was one explanation. Grow up.

[Wolverine]

Blinky wrote:

Man, ambigious as well. You're a comic genius Wolverine. Seriously, why do you waste your time here with these folk?
You mean a one lined post takes a great deal of time? Doubt it.

Quote:

Actually, and you just quoted it, I said it was one explanation. Grow up.
So the guns are not being used?

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote:

Man, ambigious as well. You're a comic genius Wolverine. Seriously, why do you waste your time here with these folk?
You mean a one lined post takes a great deal of time? Doubt it.


Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.

wolverine wrote:
Quote:
Actually, and you just quoted it, I said it was one explanation. Grow up.
So the guns are not being used?

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.

[Wolverine]

Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

[Canada_Rocks]

Lucky Luke wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself.

You won't stop smuggling with guns, you just make the act more dangerous and life threatening.

:-D
:-D

I can even the odds by owning a gun.

You just make it more likely to happen, the American experience is showing you just that.

:-D
:-D

Yes, me defending my s**t is more likely to happen if I own a gun. Now you are catching on.

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

Oh I see now. You're taking what strangers anonymously post on internet message boards as not only true but representative of every gun owner in the USA.

[Wolverine]

Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

Oh I see now. You're taking what strangers anonymously post on internet message boards as not only true but representative of every gun owner in the USA.
Hardly, I would assume if the only use of a gun is murder than surely a huge gun board like AR15.com would be full of convicted killers. Surely you could prove this true if gun really do drive people mad.

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

Oh I see now. You're taking what strangers anonymously post on internet message boards as not only true but representative of every gun owner in the USA.
Hardly, I would assume if the only use of a gun is murder than surely a huge gun board like AR15.com would be full of convicted killers. Surely you could prove this true if gun really do drive people mad.

Wolverine, I could be one such poster on AR15.com for all you know.

[Wolverine]

Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

Oh I see now. You're taking what strangers anonymously post on internet message boards as not only true but representative of every gun owner in the USA.
Hardly, I would assume if the only use of a gun is murder than surely a huge gun board like AR15.com would be full of convicted killers. Surely you could prove this true if gun really do drive people mad.

Wolverine, I could be one such poster on AR15.com for all you know.
You mean you are really pro-gun, a poster on AR15.com, but you come here to make anti's look hoplophobic and foolish?

Good man.

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: Quote:

Not on its own, but the majority of posts you make here consist of one liners devoid of any real substance. I imagine that all together you have wasted perhaps days of your life "entertaining" the adults here.
I can;t imagine 10 seconds would amount to days.

Quote:

How should I or anyone else know Wolverine? Maybe. I can't lay claim to being on close terms with every gun owner is the United States. Neither can you so I guess we'll never know definitvely. But, again, one explanation (among many others I'm sure) is that the guns not used in crimes are not used at all - rather, that they sit in cupboards and garages gathering dust.
Yeah.... I wonder how so many members on gun boards can get away with murder when they take guns to the range? Weird.

Oh I see now. You're taking what strangers anonymously post on internet message boards as not only true but representative of every gun owner in the USA.
Hardly, I would assume if the only use of a gun is murder than surely a huge gun board like AR15.com would be full of convicted killers. Surely you could prove this true if gun really do drive people mad.

Wolverine, I could be one such poster on AR15.com for all you know.
You mean you are really pro-gun, a poster on AR15.com, but you come here to make anti's look hoplophobic and foolish?

Good man.

Thats not the point, and you know it. The only person looking foolish at the moment is you. But just keep on digging that hole Wolverine.

[Wolverine]

Will do.

Speaking of digging holes, where's that link proving that guns that are not used in crime are used at all?

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Will do.

Speaking of digging holes, where's that link proving that guns that are not used in crime are used at all?

See other thread. (Gun's don't kill people)
http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1798670#1798670

[Canada_Rocks]

Who cares. They are there if we need it. Just because someting is not used doesn't men they should be banned. It isn't a question of use, it is a question of liberty. By this logic (using for good VS using fo evil) I can claim that more guns do not kill poeple than guns that do kill people-- thus guns are more positive than negative.

[Blinky]

Canada_Rocks wrote: Who cares. They are there if we need it. Just because someting is not used doesn't men they should be banned. It isn't a question of use, it is a question of liberty.

The problem, Canada Rocks, is that they are used. Thousands of dead Americans every year - year after year - woud attest to that, if they still could.


Quote: By this logic (using for good VS using fo evil) I can claim that more guns do not kill poeple than guns that do kill people-- thus guns are more positive than negative.

Same with cars, yet we all support measures to reduce the number of deaths attributed to them.

[Canada_Rocks]

Blinky wrote:

The problem, Canada Rocks, is that they are used. Thousands of dead Americans every year - year after year - woud attest to that, if they still could.

So? Can you provide any evidence to show me that licensed guns kill all those people. No need. Read further.


Quote:
Same with cars, yet we all support measures to reduce the number of deaths attributed to them.

Like banning them?

Anyhow, I will post the spanking I gave to Lucky Luke concerning "deaths caused by guns" and how guns attribute to deaths shown between countries with strict gun control laws and countries without strict gun control laws:

Quote:
http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm

MURDER RATE GOING UP


http://www.ncpa.org/iss/cri/2003/pd050103d.html

Quote: In France and Germany, it is down by more than a quarter since 1995. Yet Britain's homicide rate has risen steadily to almost 850 per year.

Aw. looks like CR was right all along.



Quote:

Gun crime and black-on-black killings are both on the increase, but neither can fully explain the rise in the murder rate.
Over the past three years, there have been 230 victims of shooting, compared with 345 who died after being hit or kicked.
Stabbing was by far the most common method of killing, accounting for 693 deaths.

And it seems we need to ban knives and fists. :rotf: CR right again.


http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm62.html

Quote:
A study published by the University of Chicago found that crime rates are lower when civilians are allowed to carry concealed weapons.

Murder rates in the District of Columbia and Chicago actually went up after each jurisdiction passed restrictive gun control laws.

Burglaries of occupied dwellings in the gun-free U.K. are much more frequent than in the United States.
( http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~llou/guns.html )



http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=7862

Quote: general, the research shows that violent crime rates were lower in the UK than the United States in 1992. (Rated in percent of those interviewed responding ''yes'' to being victimized.)

Burglary with entry: UK – 2.5% U.S. – 3.5%
Robbery: UK – .9% U.S. – 1.7%
Sexual assault of women: UK – .3% U.S. – 1.5%
Assault with force: UK – 1.1% U.S. – 2.2%



In the 2000 survey the researchers combined the three violent crimes of robbery, rape, and assault into one category entitled ''Selected Contact Crime.'' Here is what they report (post-ban for UK.)

Burglary with entry: UK – 2.8% U.S. – 1.8%
Selected contact crime: UK – 3.6% U.S. – 1.9%



Hehehe. Don't ever battle a jedi master LL.

As you can see that crime and murder still happen regardless. People are "safer" for owning guns. Plus an armed militia is good militarily.
Any more questions?

[Canada_Rocks]

Quote: It isn't a question of use, it is a question of liberty.

And I think this needs to be repeated. Again and again and again.