Political Crossfire Forums

[Lucky Luke]

mattman42 wrote: Those 728,511 guns + the 10s of millions we already have. Why are we getting only 12,000 or so murders despite having so many guns (handguns even!) available? Why, that almost seems to indicate that only a tiny percentage of guns will ever be used to murder someone.

No, it proves that handgun lovers can't stop buying more handguns but as there are less young Americans becoming gun lovers each new generation, guns are less of a problem. You are a dying breed, dying with more guns than ever before.
However the handgun murder rate is not going down in America anymore because gun lovers are buying more handguns and less of other guns nowadays.
:-D
:-D

[Wolverine]

*waits*

Where's these 728,511 murders automatic pistols? And 294,099 with revolvers? Where oh where.

Lets look at 2003.
Hmmm..... 811,660 semi-automatics... 309,364 revolvers a total of 1,121,024 handguns made..... 11,920 homicides..... thats 0.01% that were used to kill someone.
Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.

*stamps owned on the foreheads of everyone who fail to answer*

[britboy]

Wolverine wrote: *waits*


Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.



I would propose it depends on the type of 'goods'.


I would say some 'goods', such as torture implements, are used far more often for evil than good.

[Lucky Luke]

Wolverine wrote: *waits*

Where's these 728,511 murders automatic pistols? And 294,099 with revolvers? Where oh where.

Lets look at 2003.
Hmmm..... 811,660 semi-automatics... 309,364 revolvers a total of 1,121,024 handguns made..... 11,920 homicides..... thats 0.01% that were used to kill someone.
Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.

*stamps owned on the foreheads of everyone who fail to answer*

Wait for what Whateveryourname is? For you to tell us that you got it wrong when you quoted me?

You are the anti gun control poster, you tell us why should we care how many handguns you have.

:-D
:-D

[Wolverine]

britboy wrote: Wolverine wrote: *waits*


Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.



I would propose it depends on the type of 'goods'.


I would say some 'goods', such as torture implements, are used far more often for evil than good.
I agree, paper targets are often totured by gun nut rednecks.

[Rankor and Pissing]

Wolverine wrote: britboy wrote: Wolverine wrote: *waits*


Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.



I would propose it depends on the type of 'goods'.


I would say some 'goods', such as torture implements, are used far more often for evil than good.
I agree, paper targets are often totured by gun nut rednecks.

It's not suprising about those damned paper targets they had it coming anyway.


I'd suggest our resident anti-gun nuts simply take up the mantle of actually doing humanity some good. As accidental deaths in the U.S. by firearms is about 1,500 per year (which isn't good or evil), it's still not in the top 5... and now... for the top 5...

Americans are 2x as likely to die being burned in a fire or some fire accident, 3x as likely to drown, 6x as likely to die by being poisioned, 13x as likely to die by falling, and about 35x as likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

according to soyouwanna.com...

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?



4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.



1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?



So if it's not the accidental deaths, the rise in murders isn't happening, and all these guns are out there being sold every year, adding a pile of additional firearms... where's the streets of blood we're promised? It's certainly not in a spiffy chart.

If the anti-nerds really want to help people live and save lives... go after the car manufacturers and get them to make safer cars. Go after the road safety commissions and dept. of transportation to make better and safer driving laws. But... we all know... THAT isn't going to happen now don't we?

Oh, by the way... accidental deaths by firearms: 1,500.

:rotf:

[Lucky Luke]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: Wolverine wrote: britboy wrote: Wolverine wrote: *waits*


Thats ok, being wrong and all anti's, but goods are used far more often for good than evil.



I would propose it depends on the type of 'goods'.


I would say some 'goods', such as torture implements, are used far more often for evil than good.
I agree, paper targets are often totured by gun nut rednecks.

It's not suprising about those damned paper targets they had it coming anyway.


I'd suggest our resident anti-gun nuts simply take up the mantle of actually doing humanity some good. As accidental deaths in the U.S. by firearms is about 1,500 per year (which isn't good or evil), it's still not in the top 5... and now... for the top 5...

Americans are 2x as likely to die being burned in a fire or some fire accident, 3x as likely to drown, 6x as likely to die by being poisioned, 13x as likely to die by falling, and about 35x as likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

according to soyouwanna.com...

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?



4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.



1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?



So if it's not the accidental deaths, the rise in murders isn't happening, and all these guns are out there being sold every year, adding a pile of additional firearms... where's the streets of blood we're promised? It's certainly not in a spiffy chart.

If the anti-nerds really want to help people live and save lives... go after the car manufacturers and get them to make safer cars. Go after the road safety commissions and dept. of transportation to make better and safer driving laws. But... we all know... THAT isn't going to happen now don't we?

Oh, by the way... accidental deaths by firearms: 1,500.

:rotf:

If you add the number of murders to your list, suddenly guns are number two in your list, just after the number of deaths with car

Now tell us how often cars are used in America everyday compared to guns, 10,000 times more, 1,000 times more, 100 times more, please do tell us and I'll tell you what tops the list of the most lethal object used by Americans by far.

:-D
:-D

[Wolverine]

Rankor and Pissing wrote:

It's not suprising about those damned paper targets they had it coming anyway.
Hidding the remote is just sick. The paper deserved to die.


Quote: I'd suggest our resident anti-gun nuts simply take up the mantle of actually doing humanity some good. As accidental deaths in the U.S. by firearms is about 1,500 per year (which isn't good or evil), it's still not in the top 5... and now... for the top 5...

Americans are 2x as likely to die being burned in a fire or some fire accident, 3x as likely to drown, 6x as likely to die by being poisioned, 13x as likely to die by falling, and about 35x as likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

according to soyouwanna.com...

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?



4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.



1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?



So if it's not the accidental deaths, the rise in murders isn't happening, and all these guns are out there being sold every year, adding a pile of additional firearms... where's the streets of blood we're promised? It's certainly not in a spiffy chart.

If the anti-nerds really want to help people live and save lives... go after the car manufacturers and get them to make safer cars. Go after the road safety commissions and dept. of transportation to make better and safer driving laws. But... we all know... THAT isn't going to happen now don't we?

Oh, by the way... accidental deaths by firearms: 1,500.

:rotf:
Stop making sense.

Even if you included all the deaths, homicide, suicide, accident, even those numbers are not relavent when comapred ot other countries. Countries like Japan which have total gun control have higher suicide rates than the US. So maybe its not inanimate pieces of steel that are forcing people to kill themselves. *gasp*

[Lucky Luke]

Wolverine wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote:

It's not suprising about those damned paper targets they had it coming anyway.
Hidding the remote is just sick. The paper deserved to die.


Quote: I'd suggest our resident anti-gun nuts simply take up the mantle of actually doing humanity some good. As accidental deaths in the U.S. by firearms is about 1,500 per year (which isn't good or evil), it's still not in the top 5... and now... for the top 5...

Americans are 2x as likely to die being burned in a fire or some fire accident, 3x as likely to drown, 6x as likely to die by being poisioned, 13x as likely to die by falling, and about 35x as likely to die in a motor vehicle accident.

according to soyouwanna.com...

5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?



4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.



1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?



So if it's not the accidental deaths, the rise in murders isn't happening, and all these guns are out there being sold every year, adding a pile of additional firearms... where's the streets of blood we're promised? It's certainly not in a spiffy chart.

If the anti-nerds really want to help people live and save lives... go after the car manufacturers and get them to make safer cars. Go after the road safety commissions and dept. of transportation to make better and safer driving laws. But... we all know... THAT isn't going to happen now don't we?

Oh, by the way... accidental deaths by firearms: 1,500.

:rotf:
Stop making sense.

Even if you included all the deaths, homicide, suicide, accident, even those numbers are not relavent when comapred ot other countries. Countries like Japan which have total gun control have higher suicide rates than the US. So maybe its not inanimate pieces of steel that are forcing people to kill themselves. *gasp*

Irrelevant and you know it Whateveryournameis.

:-D
:-D

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: but goods are used far more often for good than evil.


Or could it be that those guns NOT used in homicides were not used at all?

[Canada_Rocks]

Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:

[mattman42]

Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: but goods are used far more often for good than evil.


Or could it be that those guns NOT used in homicides were not used at all?

I've used my guns quite a few times and never killed anyone. Do you really believe that of 10s of millions of guns, the only ones that are ever used are the 12,000 or so used to murder/kill people?

[Wolverine]

Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: but goods are used far more often for good than evil.


Or could it be that those guns NOT used in homicides were not used at all?
omg... you mean to say that when I shoot a handgun out in the hills, I am not actually using it?

Wow, what an eye opener, I would like to expand on this quantum theory, here all this time I thought I was actually using it and needed to clean it when I got home. But I guess i wasn't really using it. Its amazing only .01% of those who buy guns actually use them, they must buy it, take it home, and forget about it until they start hearing the voices. Maybe corrosion isn't real either.

[Wolverine]

Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

[Blinky]

Wolverine wrote: Blinky wrote: Wolverine wrote: but goods are used far more often for good than evil.


Or could it be that those guns NOT used in homicides were not used at all?
omg... you mean to say that when I shoot a handgun out in the hills, I am not actually using it?

Wow, what an eye opener, I would like to expand on this quantum theory, here all this time I thought I was actually using it and needed to clean it when I got home. But I guess i wasn't really using it. Its amazing only .01% of those who buy guns actually use them, they must buy it, take it home, and forget about it until they start hearing the voices. Maybe corrosion isn't real either.

Wow, had to edit the post two times to get the sarcasm just right, eh?
I never suggested that ALL firearms not used in murders were not used at all. It is one explanation for why you don't have a murder rate on par with the number of guns sold.
Grow up.

[Canada_Rocks]

Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself.

[Thrilla]

Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself. :tu:

[Lucky Luke]

Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself.

You won't stop smuggling with guns, you just make the act more dangerous and life threatening.

:-D
:-D

[Wolverine]

Blinky wrote:

Wow, had to edit the post two times to get the sarcasm just right, eh?
I love satire.

Quote: I never suggested that ALL firearms not used in murders were not used at all. It is one explanation for why you don't have a murder rate on par with the number of guns sold.
Grow up.
But you just said the guns bought are not being used. So how would you justify more gun control if .01% of those guns are used to kill someone? Seriously, the hoplophobia is worse then you may think.

[Canada_Rocks]

Lucky Luke wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Wolverine wrote: Our best buds seem to think that handguns only serve a purpose to kill. In 2004 728,511 handguns were manufactured, so logically that same number of people should have died by gun fire in 2004.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2004.pdf

So I must ask, where's our 728,511 murders?

Probably a lot of murders. Done by illegal firearms which are un licensed or smuggled in. :wink:
Which is why gun control laws and the anti-terror laws don't work with an open border.

Pretty much but you can never stop smuggling. The only way to keep it at arms length is to be armed yourself.

You won't stop smuggling with guns, you just make the act more dangerous and life threatening.

:-D
:-D

I can even the odds by owning a gun.