Political Crossfire Forums

[callous]

Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

To be a neocon, you'd first have to understand traditional conservativism, and then how to take advantage of its supporters, and then have a sociopathic desire to completely destroy those principles in favor of monopolizing the cashflow of the community you reside or work in.

as nico said, its an exclusive group of people, the supporters of which merely choose not to criticize.

[NAB]

Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

[callous]

NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I heard a nazi use a hyperbole once.....

[poweRob]

NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I think Adolf Hitler invented the "Hyperbole Cycle".

:-D

[NAB]

callous wrote: NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I heard a nazi use a hyperbole once.....

Was it a single rider or did it have the sidecar attached.

[Moracca]

NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I can't remember being called a Nazi yet, but I have been called a whole slew of other things. Oh well. It was pretty funny to be tagged a government plant in here though. :lol:

[poweRob]

callous wrote: NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I heard a nazi use a hyperbole once.....

Damn you beat me to it.

[callous]

NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: Moracca wrote: Nico wrote: Moracca wrote:

Many 'o leftist in here have labeled me a "neo-con" so I'm just running with it.


As far as I'm concerned, Neocon is/ was a small group of Whitehouse idologues. I don't feel it applies to the public at large at all, unless they really identify with that small group and their ideas. Most of them are gone now, and their ideas have been played out to their conclusions.

Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

Just hang in there and the Nazi comparisons can't be too far down the road.

I think I'll dub it the Hyperbole Cycle. :wink:

I heard a nazi use a hyperbole once.....

Was it a single rider or did it have the sidecar attached.

no side car, but it had custom pipes and there was no seat, only a sharp stick.

[sLiPpY]

Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

[callous]

sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

yup, fascism in its most flamboyant nature.

[Nico]

sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?


I would argue no, but not striclty.
To me a neocon is not a right or a left but an ideology of convenience. If the democrats had given shelter to the very same group of people, i'm sure the outcome would have been the same, as the group seem driven by a unique outlook on America's place regarding foreign policy. Realistically any side could harbour them, and i'm sure they would not have cared one way or the other.

Bush is a guy with a social conscience, but I don't see him as a Neocon or a socialist. Social conscience is not the preserve of the left, although it is their imperative. I see his social moves as entertained by the neocons but not as part of their policy. It's an impression anyway.
Even the porkbarrelling I see as not the Neocon agenda but the agenda of associated persons.



To me the neocons were wolfowitz, Perle, cheney and rumsfeld. the first one i see as the architect and the most likely to be unconcerned where he attained his power base. the others I see as his leverage, a means to an end. I am almost prepared to think of Wolfowittz as the Neocon, and others as the acolytes. He's not evil but he is an ideologue, which is more dangerous i think. he's a guy never to take your eye off for a second though out of the loop now as the fallout starts to float down.



In late 1979 Jeanne Kirkpatrick began a migration of neoconservatives from their traditional base in the U.S. Democratic Party over to the U.S. Republican Party and its Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. Wolfowitz joined this exodus after receiving a phone call from his old boss Fred Ikle, then working on the Reagan campaign, in which he said “Paul, you’ve got to get out of there. We want you in the new administration.” A short time later, in early 1980, Wolfowitz resigned from the Pentagon and went to work as a visiting professor at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University. According to the Washington Post; "He said it was not he who changed his political philosophy so much as the Democratic Party, which abandoned the hard-headed internationalism of Harry Truman, Kennedy and Jackson." [1] The Times claims however that "he has not ceased being a registered Democrat."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz

[Moracca]

sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

[homerjay_s]

Moracca wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

I believe I've probably labeled you a neocon in here once or twice, but it would only have been when you were new and if you were supporting some of the standard neocon talking points.

Then again I get labeled all sorts of things here that aren't exactly accurate, too.

[homerjay_s]

Moracca wrote:
Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

So you are categorically denying being a government plant?

:-D

[Dookiestix]

homerjay_s wrote: Moracca wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

I believe I've probably labeled you a neocon in here once or twice, but it would only have been when you were new and if you were supporting some of the standard neocon talking points.

Then again I get labeled all sorts of things here that aren't exactly accurate, too.
As have I.

Moracca: Are you calling yourself a neocon only becuase some may have "falsely" accused you as such? Or is that the case in your own classic definition?

I'm just curious...

[Moracca]

Dookiestix wrote: homerjay_s wrote: Moracca wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

I believe I've probably labeled you a neocon in here once or twice, but it would only have been when you were new and if you were supporting some of the standard neocon talking points.

Then again I get labeled all sorts of things here that aren't exactly accurate, too.
As have I.

Moracca: Are you calling yourself a neocon only becuase some may have "falsely" accused you as such? Or is that the case in your own classic definition?

I'm just curious...

According to the definition of neoconservative posted a couple of posts up in blue, I am not a neo-con. I don't walk around saying that I am a neo-con because I'm not exactly sure what it is. I don't even know if I'm Arab-American, Moroccan-American, African-American or Muslim-American. :lol:

I don't care what you guys call me. Just as you don't care what I call you. I posted this thread to basically say that some leftist views are noble and 100% American. My only issue with some of them is how you get them started, funded and run properly. I consider myself a conservative. I also do not have a lot of trust in the government to take care of me, you, Homer or some crack head on Sunset.

[Moracca]

homerjay_s wrote: Moracca wrote:
Yeah, but one of those leftists accused me of being a government plant in here as well.

So you are categorically denying being a government plant?

:-D

I will deny until I have successfuly wormed into all of your PC's, e-mail accounts, PC's you have logged onto your e-mail from and secured enough black mail material to keep all over you on your toes for decades to come.

:twisted: -insert sinister evil laugh- :twisted:

:lol:

[Dookiestix]

Moracca wrote: Dookiestix wrote: homerjay_s wrote: Moracca wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

I believe I've probably labeled you a neocon in here once or twice, but it would only have been when you were new and if you were supporting some of the standard neocon talking points.

Then again I get labeled all sorts of things here that aren't exactly accurate, too.
As have I.

Moracca: Are you calling yourself a neocon only becuase some may have "falsely" accused you as such? Or is that the case in your own classic definition?

I'm just curious...

According to the definition of neoconservative posted a couple of posts up in blue, I am not a neo-con. I don't walk around saying that I am a neo-con because I'm not exactly sure what it is. I don't even know if I'm Arab-American, Moroccan-American, African-American or Muslim-American. :lol:

I don't care what you guys call me. Just as you don't care what I call you. I posted this thread to basically say that some leftist views are noble and 100% American. My only issue with some of them is how you get them started, funded and run properly. I consider myself a conservative. I also do not have a lot of trust in the government to take care of me, you, Homer or some crack head on Sunset.
Well, whatever the case, I can certainly appreciate this thread. You've diffused the uncivility that can transpire on this forum, and you have done something that not many have seemed to have done on this forum:

Reached out to the other side.

:clap:

[callous]

Dookiestix wrote: Moracca wrote: Dookiestix wrote: homerjay_s wrote: Moracca wrote: sLiPpY wrote: Moracca wrote: I was just curious to see how other "neo-cons" thought of the leftist goals in the social services arena. Personally I feel that the leftist agenda concerning nationalized health care and socialism in general is a noble goal. I mean, the fact that leftsists want to ensure that everyone has at least access to health care, a place to stay and food to eat is as American to me than anything else. The problem is implementing these programs. I think that if we can find responsible ways to implement these programs we will have taken many steps forward in making the US a better place. However, the costs associated with these programs would be enormous.

Anyway, I'd like to see what everyone out there thought of the end result of these leftist ideals without too much argument on how to establish them. We all know that implementation is the problem along with the ability to sustain them longterm.

But Moracca, aren't Neo-Cons leftist by definition?

Read up...I only call myself a neo-con in here because I've been tagged it a few times by those who don't agree with my opinions on varying topics.

I believe I've probably labeled you a neocon in here once or twice, but it would only have been when you were new and if you were supporting some of the standard neocon talking points.

Then again I get labeled all sorts of things here that aren't exactly accurate, too.
As have I.

Moracca: Are you calling yourself a neocon only becuase some may have "falsely" accused you as such? Or is that the case in your own classic definition?

I'm just curious...

According to the definition of neoconservative posted a couple of posts up in blue, I am not a neo-con. I don't walk around saying that I am a neo-con because I'm not exactly sure what it is. I don't even know if I'm Arab-American, Moroccan-American, African-American or Muslim-American. :lol:

I don't care what you guys call me. Just as you don't care what I call you. I posted this thread to basically say that some leftist views are noble and 100% American. My only issue with some of them is how you get them started, funded and run properly. I consider myself a conservative. I also do not have a lot of trust in the government to take care of me, you, Homer or some crack head on Sunset.
Well, whatever the case, I can certainly appreciate this thread. You've diffused the uncivility that can transpire on this forum, and you have done something that not many have seemed to have done on this forum:

Reached out to the other side.

:clap:

and I like clapping, so I'll clap too. :clap:

[Patriarch]

Most of the programs you are talking about involve implementing socialism. Socialism almost never works. Just ask the Russians.

Or even France. There they have tried a quasi social/still capitalist approach and they have riots almost every weekend now. Not to mention a huge problem with immigrants and islamo fascists.

Furthermore the only way you can really help out these disadvantaged people is either trying to get them jobs and tax cuts---> Conservative Ideas. Or buy simply taxing the hell out of the rich and redistributing it in welfare---> leftest idea.

I don't think welfare for the most part is a good Idea. Especially unfettered welfare. It causes single mothers to want to have more kids, to get more money which is not good for society. It also causes illegals to want to come to the US so all their kids can get free Welfare and medicade.

And not to mention some people on it are just plain lazy and don't want to work, so we have to work for them? No way.