Political Crossfire Forums

[Lumina]

ieatfood wrote: lovebush wrote: ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

I almost agree with you but the N-word has a history that other words dont. the C-word is a terrible thing to call a woman, and it fits the category that you speak of, but N!@#r has such a history of tyrannical abuse that goes along with it. like the name Adolf, who names their kid Adolf anymore. it becomes a word that congers up images of the past that we dont want to ever be relived.

When you say"Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees." I think you are taking a words meaning and stretching it to a point that it becomes useless. I have had a person tell me that if I use black as a descriptive term to draw attention so a specific person. such as" which one is joe? oh thats easy, hes the black guy." that is racist. I reject that as being silly, in a sense that would be racist because its acting like calling someone black is an insult. I think we should save the term racist for the bigots, for those who dislike someone souly for the color of their skin.

no, what i mean is that we are all visual people--that is, we judge things and people by how they look. Skin color is a very important part of the judgement that we make as soon as we see any person. Whenever you see a person, you will automatically make judgements based on clothing, height, weight, facial features, sex, skin color, hair color, hair length, hair style, etc etc. Thus, everyone is racist to differring degrees.

as for the n-word having a special connotation, i disagree. I think that the N-word has been coopted into so many different forms that in modern language, it no longer carries the stigma that it once did. The word isnow frequently used in many genres of rap, hiphop, poetry, and other art forms.

One function of the human brain is to categorize, and so we all do notice height, weight, skin color, and so on. This doesn't mean that we're racist, just that we're not being honest with ourselves if we deny seeing differences.

And there's nothing wrong, if a room full of folks in uniform to distinguish by gender or race or both if these are the only immediately identifiable markers. "Yes, that officer over there, the Asian one" or "That woman--the redhead." I go out of my way not to use those markers unless necessary; very often it's easier to say, "That guy wearing the dark green shirt," but I don't think I'm a racist if I say--all else being similar--"that black guy."

While it's true that the n-word has always been an integral "hook" of hip-hop, isn't one of the reasons for its use the taking back and out of its context this hateful word?

Is there not a difference between a black using the term and anybody else doing so?

Meanwhile, here's a poem using the word that you may appreciate:

http://www.duboislc.org/ShadesOfBlack/CounteeCullen.html

http://www.duboislc.org/ShadesOfBlack/CounteeCullen.html

[Geronimo]

Racism is a pointless and useless piece of the past that people keep bringing up because of their relatives' previous assumptions of other people. Everone seriousely needs to let it go. Racism is sick and disgusting. It doesn't matter if it's "funny" or not. Wouldn't it be great if no one gave a Sh#*? Racism would melt away if we knew all the aliens in our universe. Blacks, whites, asians, mexicans, etc. if other beings had tentacles and whatnot, we would all get along pretty well, don't you think? Then racism would just transfer to the next difference. Racism is the symptom of not be able to comprehend
life.

[Chymical]

We would rip on the aliens tenticles and cyclops eyes and slime etc...

We're just sucky semi sentient beings, is good not to expect too much.

[curisz]

ieatfood wrote: curisz wrote: ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

1. Michael Richards was not making a joke he was deadly seious and spewing outright hate.

2. Chris Rock making that joke is funny because its ironic, and sort of self deprecating. A white person saying the same thing just plays into racist stereotypes. Noone rags on white people better than some of the whitest comics out there, and for the same reason. And yes, there are black comics who mock whites, but usually they mock blacks in the same breath, and expose everyones little foibles and idiosyncracies. A comic just shouting out
"I hate crackers" would have a verry brief career.

1. so according to you, racism is ok when people are laughing. Whats your reasoning behind that?

2. so self-deprecating racism is ok but non-self-deprecating racism is not ok. Whats your reasoning behind that?

The difference is hate. I think thats a pretty good reason.

[lovebush]

[quote="ieatfood"][
Quote:
no, what i mean is that we are all visual people--that is, we judge things and people by how they look. Skin color is a very important part of the judgement that we make as soon as we see any person.


Ok, what does their skin color tell you about them?

[Tritt00]

Geronimo wrote: Racism is a pointless and useless piece of the past that people keep bringing up because of their relatives' previous assumptions of other people. Everone seriousely needs to let it go. Racism is sick and disgusting. It doesn't matter if it's "funny" or not.

I think racism has transformed into a word that is way overused in our society. As human beings we observe things that surtain groups of people do. Racism: according to dictionary.com means "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races." So when does something become racism? I believe it when you truely have something against a person simply because of there race. To say "we need to get rid of racism" is like saying "we need to get rid of thoughts". People are have always and will always be generalized by there groups they are a part of.

I personally think that what michael richards said undoubtibly crossed a line, I also think the news media making a big deal out of this does not help the racism issues in our country at all. This sort of stuff happens, and has happened before. Welcome to the world of 24 hour news so lets talk about something to make it into a serious issue.

[ilovebushnotdick]

Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

[Fiduciary]

arn wrote: the black guy should have got up on the stage and beat his arse. see if he thinks that's funny. signed: arn, a white guy

So, it's not enough now for the dreaded "N" word to end careers, now you think it should justify physical beating???

Your post is the epitome of PC ignorance run-amok.

[curisz]

ilovebushnotdick wrote: Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

I would like to see every rapper who uses n**** as a pejorative lose their career too. I am the proud father of two bi-racial children (most would look at them and say "black"). The first time I hear some punk, be they black, white or otherwise call my kids n***** or hos there WILL be a beat down.

The word itself is not offensive when used carefully, circumspectly, ironically, which is what I think someone like Chris Rock does. It's the attitude that accompanies it, hate or callous disregard.

[Fiduciary]

curisz wrote: ilovebushnotdick wrote: Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

I would like to see every rapper who uses n**** as a pejorative lose their career too. I am the proud father of two bi-racial children (most would look at them and say "black"). The first time I hear some punk, be they black, white or otherwise call my kids n***** or hos there WILL be a beat down.

The word itself is not offensive when used carefully, circumspectly, ironically, which is what I think someone like Chris Rock does. It's the attitude that accompanies it, hate or callous disregard.

Regarding the "beat down", so you practice and teach you children, to give POWER to the word?

It's that PRECISE reaction that gives a stupid redneck word power.

What if someone called them that and you laughed and just said "how pathetic"... That would have much more effect than beating someone's butt.

[curisz]

Fiduciary wrote: curisz wrote: ilovebushnotdick wrote: Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

I would like to see every rapper who uses n**** as a pejorative lose their career too. I am the proud father of two bi-racial children (most would look at them and say "black"). The first time I hear some punk, be they black, white or otherwise call my kids n***** or hos there WILL be a beat down.

The word itself is not offensive when used carefully, circumspectly, ironically, which is what I think someone like Chris Rock does. It's the attitude that accompanies it, hate or callous disregard.

Regarding the "beat down", so you practice and teach you children, to give POWER to the word?

It's that PRECISE reaction that gives a stupid redneck word power.

What if someone called them that and you laughed and just said "how pathetic"... That would have much more effect than beating someone's butt.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not talking about hospitalizing anyone. I'm talking pushing some punk up against the wall, telling him never to talk to my kid like that again, and telling them they can come around again when they learn some respect, period. Sometimes a little healthy fear goes a long way in getting a point across.

[Fiduciary]

curisz wrote: Fiduciary wrote: curisz wrote: ilovebushnotdick wrote: Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

I would like to see every rapper who uses n**** as a pejorative lose their career too. I am the proud father of two bi-racial children (most would look at them and say "black"). The first time I hear some punk, be they black, white or otherwise call my kids n***** or hos there WILL be a beat down.

The word itself is not offensive when used carefully, circumspectly, ironically, which is what I think someone like Chris Rock does. It's the attitude that accompanies it, hate or callous disregard.

Regarding the "beat down", so you practice and teach you children, to give POWER to the word?

It's that PRECISE reaction that gives a stupid redneck word power.

What if someone called them that and you laughed and just said "how pathetic"... That would have much more effect than beating someone's butt.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not talking about hospitalizing anyone. I'm talking pushing some punk up against the wall, telling him never to talk to my kid like that again, and telling them they can come around again when they learn some respect, period. Sometimes a little healthy fear goes a long way in getting a point across.

I'm all for a little physical violence; that's all some people understand.

But we've been doing this N-word freak out fro 20-30 years now and it ISN'T working.

Perhaps the opposite approach would be more effective

for example, "cracker" is not considered offensive because white people don't freak out about it and threaten to beat ass or ruin careers over it. Hence the insulting word has no power...just food for thought..

[curisz]

Fiduciary wrote: curisz wrote: Fiduciary wrote: curisz wrote: ilovebushnotdick wrote: Nathyn wrote: Not sure where to put this, as there's no racial forum and this is bound to get too "political," for the lounge forum, but...
i never liked seinfield or his kooky team, but if '****' is the problem word here, i must say that i heard this word so many times used in black rap on the streets that i dont see the problem with a white thrash using it either.

I would like to see every rapper who uses n**** as a pejorative lose their career too. I am the proud father of two bi-racial children (most would look at them and say "black"). The first time I hear some punk, be they black, white or otherwise call my kids n***** or hos there WILL be a beat down.

The word itself is not offensive when used carefully, circumspectly, ironically, which is what I think someone like Chris Rock does. It's the attitude that accompanies it, hate or callous disregard.

Regarding the "beat down", so you practice and teach you children, to give POWER to the word?

It's that PRECISE reaction that gives a stupid redneck word power.

What if someone called them that and you laughed and just said "how pathetic"... That would have much more effect than beating someone's butt.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not talking about hospitalizing anyone. I'm talking pushing some punk up against the wall, telling him never to talk to my kid like that again, and telling them they can come around again when they learn some respect, period. Sometimes a little healthy fear goes a long way in getting a point across.

I'm all for a little physical violence; that's all some people understand.

But we've been doing this N-word freak out fro 20-30 years now and it ISN'T working.

Perhaps the opposite approach would be more effective

for example, "cracker" is not considered offensive because white people don't freak out about it and threaten to beat ass or ruin careers over it. Hence the insulting word has no power...just food for thought..

Go into an inner city neighborhood at night and see if you feel offended if a group of young black men walk toward you calling you cracker. The difference in the power of the word is the power of the people using it. Day in and day out, the fact is most black folks don't have an awful lot of power over most white folks, and thats why we can laugh off stuff like cracker or some "white people can't dance" joke.

On the other hand, most black people ARE in a situation where whites have a lot of control over there lives: whether they get the job/promotion/raise or not. Whether they get a mortgage or a car loan. Whether they get into school and what grades they get. Whether they get a ticket or just a warning, charged with a misdemeanor or a felony, whether the cop decides to just take the license and registration and move on or decides to approach the car gun drawn and tell you to put up your hands. Whether the server at the restaurant will come back with a free refill or just ignore your table. Whether the clerk at the store will give you a thorough answer to a question or just a brush off. Whether the car dealership will take you seriously when you try and negotiate a better price.

Outbursts like this only serve to reinforce the feeling many blacks live with day in and day out that no matter how cool white people may seem to their face, (and it would not be unreasonable to assume that Richards would be a relatively cool guy) on the inside they are screaming "n*****". That feeling is the very crux of the race relations issue. It's why many blacks always feel that they MUST have gotten poorer treatment than white people any time its less than perfect.

We have the power to laugh off "cracker". A black person being called n***** is going to take a serious confidence hit about his ability to deal successfully with the whites who dominate society.

[AmericanJuggernaut]

I always prefer "real" to politically correct any day. It's the hidden racist comments that you should be worried about. You got that cracker?

Tell it like it is. If it's wrong in the suburbs , it's wrong in the hood. Don't bother to rationalize it . Keep it real bro.

[Vexillum]

I saw the video. Kramer really cracked me up. If he came to town, I'd have to go see him. Too bad Kramer apologized the next day. He should have claimed it was comedy. :lol:

He had been chosen to be a voice in the animated movie Cat Tale, ETA 2008. I wonder if he'll get to keep that job. His acting career died in 2000.

[usa-1]

curisz wrote: The difference is hate. I think thats a pretty good reason.

I think we are pretty much on the same page. We don't need adjectives describing what makes us different, rather what makes us WE THE PEOPLE - all of us Americans. How will we ever escape racism if we continue to fuel the fires?

The media is guilty of fueling the fires, when they refer to "blacks" in whatever article they are doing. I think when I see it,.... "Do I need to know the person is black or brown or yellow or white for this to be a news article?" The overwhelming majority of the time, the answer is no. I don't need to know a persons race to know he is American. It should be taught in the schools civic classes. :wink:

[Geronimo]

What grinds my gears is that racism in this day and age is so...old fashioned. children aren't born with racism. It's the parents and whoever is around to raise them, and their teachings. My best friend growing up was black, and I never thought twice about it, whereas some of the kids that went to my school hated him for no reason. racism is weakness, and the inability to comprehend changing times.

[citizen_X]

N****R, just offended, GET OVER IT, its a word, weird humans, so easy to rile them up, wonder how they got this far, oh wait, its going backwards. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Peace420]

He just needs to rememer. "These floors are dirty, AND IM NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!"