Political Crossfire Forums

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4157

OK THIS ISN'T DIRECTED AT ANYONE in particular, but clearly we have some people who are commenting on this and haven't seen the video yet.
If you're commenting and you haven't seen the video yet, stop and watch the video. It's obvious to those who have, which ones of you hasn't cause were not talking about the same kind of stuff. I wouldn't disagree with any of the last few statements, but we're not talking about the same type of racism.

namelessprefect · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Jersey Shore

If someone (Michael Richards) attacks you verbally in front of a crowd, your first reaction (without a pause to think clearly) would be to verbally retaliate with crude remarks, as the man did. In hindsight one would realize the best retaliation would be silent departure which would show who was the more mature human being. I feel sorry for Mr. Richards, I'll pray for him. Of course this was way out of line, and downright absurd, in my own opinion. On another note, however, his career is far from over. Notice how "Kramer" aka Michael Richards is now in the limelight of the media? How much attention he now has? Publicity? Another question to everyone, I'm sure there are some who knew previously: How many of you knew "Kramer" was named Michael Richards? I'll be honest, I didn't. This gave his character new light, be it good or bad. Media attention is consuming him now, we'll see how his PR's handle it.

whatnotwho · Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 474

Will someone explain to me what the word means. I was told it comes from a foreign word meaning black. If so, what's the problem with it?

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

whatnotwho wrote: Will someone explain to me what the word means. I was told it comes from a foreign word meaning black. If so, what's the problem with it?

Uhm, what word? N*gg*r?

It's slang for dark-skinned people. It was common language during the slave trade periods.

[Bible]Monkey · Joined: 03 Jul 2004 Posts: 6655 Location: Alberta

The tape shows what the difference is between an amateur-Michael Richards, and a proffessional is-say , Don Rickles .

If you hire an amatuer , expect shoddy workmanship.

Flake · Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 1902

A lot of thoughtful replies in here. Its true that too many people hear these trigger words and just shut their brains off, and let outrage take over. While I have no idea what angle he was working with the "50 years ago...." line, he was obviously not just on some hateful, bigoted rant. That much should be obvious with the "shocking, eh, what's buried beneath". It was done very clumsily (he sounded drunk or high), and he made it really tough to follow, but to me its quite clear he wasn't being "himself" up there.

"So physical violence is more acceptable than someone calling a person a hurtful name? Nice."

Exactly. People can't deal with race and the conflicts it has bred since day 1. So many want to sweep it under the rug, and then simply can't deal with it when face to face.

NAB · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:

[Bible]Monkey wrote: The tape shows what the difference is between an amateur-Michael Richards, and a proffessional is-say , Don Rickles .

If you hire an amatuer , expect shoddy workmanship.

I heard that Paul Rodriguez alluded to as much on this incident. He said Richard's wasn't experienced at stand-up, and didn't know how to handle a heckler. Destroying a heckler but not your own career is a skill that comes with years of practice.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

let me ask you,
if this had been an arab or korean or chinese person and kramer had used the word ****, instead of niigger, do you think we would have the same reaction?

I can almost guarantee that we wouldn't even know about it.

That, to me, makes everyone here just as racist as the people they claim to be offended by.

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

ieatfood wrote: let me ask you,
if this had been an arab or korean or chinese person and kramer had used the word ****, instead of niigger, do you think we would have the same reaction?

I can almost guarantee that we wouldn't even know about it.

That, to me, makes everyone here just as racist as the people they claim to be offended by.

that would have more to do with your own miss perception than anything else.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

lovebush wrote: ieatfood wrote: let me ask you,
if this had been an arab or korean or chinese person and kramer had used the word ****, instead of niigger, do you think we would have the same reaction?

I can almost guarantee that we wouldn't even know about it.

That, to me, makes everyone here just as racist as the people they claim to be offended by.

that would have more to do with your own miss perception than anything else.

really? when was the last time you saw a korean person on the news talkiing about racism against koreans?

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

JoeBen81 wrote: Ok... Who just saw him on Letterman trying to apoligize..... :shock: AKWARD...

I thought he sounded sincere for what it's worth.

what struck me was how he said he is not a racist, My first thought was " if you werent a racist you wouldnt have used the word. then it hits me! I used the word once. and Im not a racist. I was so angry at a black guy that I wanted to yell something at him that might get to him. I called him a stupid N......! I have never had negative feelings toward black people, yet that was the worst thing I could think to call the guy. I dont think I would have done it in front of a crowd of people, but then if there had been a crowd of people he wouldnt have robbed me.

pyrophasma · Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 591 Location: Georgia

I don't think it was necessarily racially motivated. If some black dude was insulting me to the point that I was infuriated, and I wanted to insult him verbally as deeply as possible, '****' would be the best way to do it. Just like if you wanted to insult a woman as harshly as you could, you might call her a 'c.u.n.t'. Doesn't mean you're a misogynist, though.

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

pyrophasma wrote: I don't think it was necessarily racially motivated. If some black dude was insulting me to the point that I was infuriated, and I wanted to insult him verbally as deeply as possible, '****' would be the best way to do it. Just like if you wanted to insult a woman as harshly as you could, you might call her a 'c.u.n.t'. Doesn't mean you're a misogynist, though.

:!oops:that one to, just once.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

curisz · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 2099 Location: chicago

ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

1. Michael Richards was not making a joke he was deadly seious and spewing outright hate.

2. Chris Rock making that joke is funny because its ironic, and sort of self deprecating. A white person saying the same thing just plays into racist stereotypes. Noone rags on white people better than some of the whitest comics out there, and for the same reason. And yes, there are black comics who mock whites, but usually they mock blacks in the same breath, and expose everyones little foibles and idiosyncracies. A comic just shouting out
"I hate crackers" would have a verry brief career.

lovebush · Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 1147

ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

I almost agree with you but the N-word has a history that other words dont. the C-word is a terrible thing to call a woman, and it fits the category that you speak of, but N!@#r has such a history of tyrannical abuse that goes along with it. like the name Adolf, who names their kid Adolf anymore. it becomes a word that congers up images of the past that we dont want to ever be relived.

When you say"Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees." I think you are taking a words meaning and stretching it to a point that it becomes useless. I have had a person tell me that if I use black as a descriptive term to draw attention so a specific person. such as" which one is joe? oh thats easy, hes the black guy." that is racist. I reject that as being silly, in a sense that would be racist because its acting like calling someone black is an insult. I think we should save the term racist for the bigots, for those who dislike someone souly for the color of their skin.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 14791

pyrophasma wrote: I don't think it was necessarily racially motivated. If some black dude was insulting me to the point that I was infuriated, and I wanted to insult him verbally as deeply as possible, '****' would be the best way to do it. Just like if you wanted to insult a woman as harshly as you could, you might call her a 'c.u.n.t'. Doesn't mean you're a misogynist, though.

No, it doesn't. But it does mean that as your brain went to work searching for epithets that would zing, you selected one that focused on what made her different from you.

As another example, why is it among people who do use the n-word that if another driver's a jerk and white, they'll scream that he's an ****...but if the driver is black or a woman, they'll scream the n-word or the c-word?

Geronimo · Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 73 Location: Boogeyland

He needs to be careful...He might :

"Wake up in the Hudson River in a SACK!!"
Kramer, Seinfeld

*love that episode"

I think that this whole thingwas probably just drunken babble. I agree, he won't recover from this, but I don't think it was really how either party wanted the night to end.

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

curisz wrote: ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

1. Michael Richards was not making a joke he was deadly seious and spewing outright hate.

2. Chris Rock making that joke is funny because its ironic, and sort of self deprecating. A white person saying the same thing just plays into racist stereotypes. Noone rags on white people better than some of the whitest comics out there, and for the same reason. And yes, there are black comics who mock whites, but usually they mock blacks in the same breath, and expose everyones little foibles and idiosyncracies. A comic just shouting out
"I hate crackers" would have a verry brief career.

1. so according to you, racism is ok when people are laughing. Whats your reasoning behind that?

2. so self-deprecating racism is ok but non-self-deprecating racism is not ok. Whats your reasoning behind that?

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6289

lovebush wrote: ieatfood wrote: When Chris Rocks says "when I'm at the atm at night, i'm looking over my shoulder for niiggers," people laugh. No one considers that racist. WHy is it racist when Kramer says it?

Is it because he is white? Does his race make the statement itself any more or less racist? Or is it because it is funny and racism is thus ok when people are laughing? WHen is racism ok and when is it not ok? We have all of these random standards for it. It seems to me that the issue isn't so much about racism itself as much as the "social ettiquette" of how to act in public without appearing racist. Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees.

But I don't think that people here are objecting to the racism itself. Rather, they are objecting to the social faux paux that occurs when a white man says the N-word to a black man. It's not the racism that we object to. It's the social impropriety.

I almost agree with you but the N-word has a history that other words dont. the C-word is a terrible thing to call a woman, and it fits the category that you speak of, but N!@#r has such a history of tyrannical abuse that goes along with it. like the name Adolf, who names their kid Adolf anymore. it becomes a word that congers up images of the past that we dont want to ever be relived.

When you say"Inside, we all know that we are racist--we can't help but be. Racism is simply a natural human reaction to differences and we all have it to differing degrees." I think you are taking a words meaning and stretching it to a point that it becomes useless. I have had a person tell me that if I use black as a descriptive term to draw attention so a specific person. such as" which one is joe? oh thats easy, hes the black guy." that is racist. I reject that as being silly, in a sense that would be racist because its acting like calling someone black is an insult. I think we should save the term racist for the bigots, for those who dislike someone souly for the color of their skin.

no, what i mean is that we are all visual people--that is, we judge things and people by how they look. Skin color is a very important part of the judgement that we make as soon as we see any person. Whenever you see a person, you will automatically make judgements based on clothing, height, weight, facial features, sex, skin color, hair color, hair length, hair style, etc etc. Thus, everyone is racist to differring degrees.

as for the n-word having a special connotation, i disagree. I think that the N-word has been coopted into so many different forms that in modern language, it no longer carries the stigma that it once did. The word isnow frequently used in many genres of rap, hiphop, poetry, and other art forms.