Political Crossfire Forums

Chymical · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject:

I'd rather have a big slice of screwup pie please, anyday.

callous · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 15297 Location: In The Open

DSwain wrote: callous wrote: DSwain wrote: callous wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: SideTraKd wrote: Moracca wrote: His career is over. But if he was a black man making fun of white people he'd be fine.

You're right, of course, but at least that would have been a part of their sketch routine... This was just an outburst that wasn't even meant to be funny.

This kind of racism is deplorable, from both sides. The thing that I find sad is that only one side will get condemned for it.
Yeah, I agree. And I'll add that I don't think most papers will mention the fact that they called him a cracker. TMZ didn't.
They called him a cracker only after he called them ni**ers at least 6 times. I used to like him, but now I know he's a fool.

I've read about signs that Richards is a wee bit on the unstable side for years.

Probably just someone in a depression about not being in the limelight anymore.......

Well, the man in your avatar - the great Peter Sellers - was a total a-hole to be around, but a great comic. Richards has had a career of which most performers can only dream and I think it's a shame that this is the note on which it ends (and end it will - he doesn't have the clout of Gibson to pull this one back). He wasn't being particularly racist, IMO, but he was rude, offensive and silly.

Have you seen the movie about him with geoffrey rush, amazing movie.

and yeah, comic genius it seems many times comes from an extremely dark personality....

I wasn't convinced about the movie being 'a good idea' before seeing it - though Rush convinced me, as you say - amazing movie.

I think Sellers - and to a lesser extent Richards in this incident - raise an interesting question: do you want a comic to be the best he can be and bugger the personality screw-ups or do you want him to be a fully rounded and normal person who's nice and understanding and whose comedy might suffer as a result?

i.e. John Lovitz?

I think I'd rather have em dark and screwed up.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

callous wrote:

I think I'd rather have em dark and screwed up.

Absolutely

callous · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 15297 Location: In The Open

DSwain wrote: callous wrote:

I think I'd rather have em dark and screwed up.

Absolutely

Although Steve Martin may be the lone problem in that theory.... its hard to pin a dark and screwed up moment on him, and he was destructively funny as a stand up.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

callous wrote: DSwain wrote: callous wrote:

I think I'd rather have em dark and screwed up.

Absolutely

Although Steve Martin may be the lone problem in that theory.... its hard to pin a dark and screwed up moment on him, and he was destructively funny as a stand up.

I subscribe to the Dorian Gray theory with Steve Martin - he must have a MONUMENTAL screw-up hidden away somewhere, in some dark closet, and we should be scared for the day when it makes an appearance.

NAB · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject:

I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

callous · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 15297 Location: In The Open

DSwain wrote: callous wrote: DSwain wrote: callous wrote:

I think I'd rather have em dark and screwed up.

Absolutely

Although Steve Martin may be the lone problem in that theory.... its hard to pin a dark and screwed up moment on him, and he was destructively funny as a stand up.

I subscribe to the Dorian Gray theory with Steve Martin - he must have a MONUMENTAL screw-up hidden away somewhere, in some dark closet, and we should be scared for the day when it makes an appearance.

quite possible.

Nathyn · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 7341 Location: The Great Satan

JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: SideTraKd wrote: Moracca wrote: His career is over. But if he was a black man making fun of white people he'd be fine.

You're right, of course, but at least that would have been a part of their sketch routine... This was just an outburst that wasn't even meant to be funny.

This kind of racism is deplorable, from both sides. The thing that I find sad is that only one side will get condemned for it.
Yeah, I agree. And I'll add that I don't think most papers will mention the fact that they called him a cracker. TMZ didn't.
They called him a cracker only after he called them ni**ers at least 6 times. I used to like him, but now I know he's a fool.
So if somebody calls me a cracker six times, should I be able to call them a n****r?
In a perfect world or the one we live in?
I said should I be able to, not can I say it without getting assaulted.

callous · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 15297 Location: In The Open

NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

NAB · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

callous wrote: NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

I don't remember the roller skates bit on Fridays, but I do remember him doing the bit with G.I. Joe and cutting the head of Barbie off. :lol:

Seeing him go off like this reminds me of the first time I saw Bob Saget's stand-up after only knowing him from Full-House and the like. :shock:

callous · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 15297 Location: In The Open

NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

I don't remember the roller skates bit on Fridays, but I do remember him doing the bit with G.I. Joe and cutting the head of Barbie off. :lol:

Seeing him go off like this reminds me of the first time I saw Bob Saget's stand-up after only knowing him from Full-House and the like. :shock:

There aren't many darker personalities in American celebrity than Bob Sagget. Just the look in his eyes.

I think he's a real life version of American Psycho.

SideTraKd · Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 6860 Location: Indianapolis

JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: SideTraKd wrote: Moracca wrote: His career is over. But if he was a black man making fun of white people he'd be fine.

You're right, of course, but at least that would have been a part of their sketch routine... This was just an outburst that wasn't even meant to be funny.

This kind of racism is deplorable, from both sides. The thing that I find sad is that only one side will get condemned for it.
Yeah, I agree. And I'll add that I don't think most papers will mention the fact that they called him a cracker. TMZ didn't.
They called him a cracker only after he called them ni**ers at least 6 times. I used to like him, but now I know he's a fool.
So if somebody calls me a cracker six times, should I be able to call them a n****r?
In a perfect world or the one we live in?

How do you know for certain what they were saying when they were heckling him? They could have been using racist slurs first, and, in fact, it might explain a hell of a lot if they had been. Not saying that they were, because I don't know.

But my point is that you don't know, either...

NAB · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject:

callous wrote: NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

I don't remember the roller skates bit on Fridays, but I do remember him doing the bit with G.I. Joe and cutting the head of Barbie off. :lol:

Seeing him go off like this reminds me of the first time I saw Bob Saget's stand-up after only knowing him from Full-House and the like. :shock:

There aren't many darker personalities in American celebrity than Bob Sagget. Just the look in his eyes.

I think he's a real life version of American Psycho.

I must say that I actually prefer the dark version to the Cheese-whiz version he portrays to the general public. It's more honest, and, frankly, a lot funnier.

StrangerWitCandy · Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 4668 Location: Fairfax, VA

SideTraKd wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: SideTraKd wrote: Moracca wrote: His career is over. But if he was a black man making fun of white people he'd be fine.

You're right, of course, but at least that would have been a part of their sketch routine... This was just an outburst that wasn't even meant to be funny.

This kind of racism is deplorable, from both sides. The thing that I find sad is that only one side will get condemned for it.
Yeah, I agree. And I'll add that I don't think most papers will mention the fact that they called him a cracker. TMZ didn't.
They called him a cracker only after he called them ni**ers at least 6 times. I used to like him, but now I know he's a fool.
So if somebody calls me a cracker six times, should I be able to call them a n****r?
In a perfect world or the one we live in?

How do you know for certain what they were saying when they were heckling him? They could have been using racist slurs first, and, in fact, it might explain a hell of a lot if they had been. Not saying that they were, because I don't know.

But my point is that you don't know, either...

I would like to see what happened before his outburst too, but no matter what they said two wrongs don't make a right and he should not have directed his comments at the entire crowd. I would have been very uncomfortable in that crowd, black or not, and it was pretty inexcusable behavior IMO.

A smarter man would not have buried his already dead career.

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4157

I'm saying, IMO, regardless of what was said before the camera was turned on, he was on the stage with a mic and should have known better than to scream **** and point, over and over, like he did.

Yes, there is a double standard here, but it doesn't excuse him at all.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1744 Location: London

NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

I don't remember the roller skates bit on Fridays, but I do remember him doing the bit with G.I. Joe and cutting the head of Barbie off. :lol:

Seeing him go off like this reminds me of the first time I saw Bob Saget's stand-up after only knowing him from Full-House and the like. :shock:

There aren't many darker personalities in American celebrity than Bob Sagget. Just the look in his eyes.

I think he's a real life version of American Psycho.

I must say that I actually prefer the dark version to the Cheese-whiz version he portrays to the general public. It's more honest, and, frankly, a lot funnier.

You have to pity Michael Richards mindset. Comics get heckled all the time, it is part of the job. But for him to resort to base level racial insults, for being heckled says a lot. Some of hius reply was vitriolic and uncalled for.
I enjoy comedy clubs, i've seen comedians walk off hurling bile at the audience because they've been heckled, but never racist. I suppose for him to be heckled by a black man with his mind set was unacceptable to him.

SideTraKd · Joined: 19 Feb 2004 Posts: 6860 Location: Indianapolis

StrangerWitCandy wrote: SideTraKd wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Nathyn wrote: SideTraKd wrote: Moracca wrote: His career is over. But if he was a black man making fun of white people he'd be fine.

You're right, of course, but at least that would have been a part of their sketch routine... This was just an outburst that wasn't even meant to be funny.

This kind of racism is deplorable, from both sides. The thing that I find sad is that only one side will get condemned for it.
Yeah, I agree. And I'll add that I don't think most papers will mention the fact that they called him a cracker. TMZ didn't.
They called him a cracker only after he called them ni**ers at least 6 times. I used to like him, but now I know he's a fool.
So if somebody calls me a cracker six times, should I be able to call them a n****r?
In a perfect world or the one we live in?

How do you know for certain what they were saying when they were heckling him? They could have been using racist slurs first, and, in fact, it might explain a hell of a lot if they had been. Not saying that they were, because I don't know.

But my point is that you don't know, either...

I would like to see what happened before his outburst too, but no matter what they said two wrongs don't make a right and he should not have directed his comments at the entire crowd. I would have been very uncomfortable in that crowd, black or not, and it was pretty inexcusable behavior IMO.

A smarter man would not have buried his already dead career.

Oh, definitely...

He went off the deep end, for sure...

I'm just saying that I'm getting a bit leary of these edited clips that are tailored to make things seem different than they really are. Obviously there is no excuse for the way Richards acted, no matter what, but really, the Michael Moore school of video editing needs to be closed permanently.

arn · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1

the black guy should have got up on the stage and beat his arse. see if he thinks that's funny. signed: arn, a white guy

NAB · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject:

Plato & Socrates wrote: NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: callous wrote: NAB wrote: I didn't realize Kramer had such an edge.

All that time on roller skates on "Fridays" ?

I don't remember the roller skates bit on Fridays, but I do remember him doing the bit with G.I. Joe and cutting the head of Barbie off. :lol:

Seeing him go off like this reminds me of the first time I saw Bob Saget's stand-up after only knowing him from Full-House and the like. :shock:

There aren't many darker personalities in American celebrity than Bob Sagget. Just the look in his eyes.

I think he's a real life version of American Psycho.

I must say that I actually prefer the dark version to the Cheese-whiz version he portrays to the general public. It's more honest, and, frankly, a lot funnier.

You have to pity Michael Richards mindset. Comics get heckled all the time, it is part of the job. But for him to resort to base level racial insults, for being heckled says a lot. Some of hius reply was vitriolic and uncalled for.
I enjoy comedy clubs, i've seen comedians walk off hurling bile at the audience because they've been heckled, but never racist. I suppose for him to be heckled by a black man with his mind set was unacceptable to him.

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my post. I was referring to Bob Saget's stand-up versus the plain-vanilla persona portrayed in his US sit-coms. I wasn't referring to Kramer.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

arn wrote: the black guy should have got up on the stage and beat his arse. see if he thinks that's funny. signed: arn, a white guy

So physical violence is more acceptable than someone calling a person a hurtful name? Nice.