Political Crossfire Forums

[jimmyz]

Ek0nomik wrote: FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.

+1

Incase any of you are wondering, he apparently is on David Letterman tonight and apologizes via satellite. Jerry Seinfeld is tonights guest too. Kinda ironic, eh?

http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/sorry-seems-to-be-the-hardest-word/

"ironic"?...No.Seinfeld is releasing a new boxed set of Seinfeld for Christmas.I would bet he got with Richards and Letterman for self-interest and damage control.

Ratings for Letterman.

Sales for Seinfeld(who owns the Seinfeld brand as executive producer along with Larry David).

More looking for gigs that will dry up for Richards.

[spearsy23]

If an old struggling actor who was never that great in the first place screw up does anybody care?

[John Galt]

The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.

[JoeBen81]

John Galt wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

[John Galt]

JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.

[ubikk]

FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.


I disagree. The men were being extremely rude in the way they heckled Richards and they deserved to be humiliated but Richards should have known better than to use race as retort. That suggests that the fault lies with the fact that the men were black, rather than the simple fact that they were just a**holes, regardless of skin color. That's what racism is.

[ubikk]

John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote:
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.

There is no comparison. Chris Rock uses the terminology in a different way. He's trying to enlighten people about faults in their culture by using satirical comedy. Richards lost his temper at hecklers and addressed two men personally with racially charged comments.

[JoeBen81]

ubikk wrote: FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.


I disagree. The men were being extremely rude in the way they heckled Richards and they deserved to be humiliated but Richards should have known better than to use race as retort. That suggests that the fault lies with the fact that the men were black, rather than the simple fact that they were just a**holes, regardless of skin color. That's what racism is.
:tu:

[John Galt]

ubikk wrote: FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.


I disagree. The men were being extremely rude in the way they heckled Richards and they deserved to be humiliated but Richards should have known better than to use race as retort. That suggests that the fault lies with the fact that the men were black, rather than the simple fact that they were just a**holes, regardless of skin color. That's what racism is.

Comics use racism all the time. It's kind of their thing. I have not actually defended Richards -- screaming at someone that they are a **** is not particularly nice. But calling people crackers isn't nice either. The audience typically laughs at racists jokes. Most all comics resort to racism, sexism or gay jokes. They all do it. They use the pain of others to make people laugh. ha ha hahah hahahahahaha racism is funny.

The problem for Richards here was that the audience instead of laughing as they normally did started whining about how it was uncalled for. Whatever. It's a comedy club. Comics are the one batch of people who don't get fired from their jobs for being racist. In fact, being racist is a large part of their job. My contention is that Richards really did nothing out of the ordinary other than he picked on a group that isn't "allowed" to be picked on by white people.

[John Galt]

ubikk wrote: John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote:
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.

There is no comparison. Chris Rock uses the terminology in a different way. He's trying to enlighten people about faults in their culture by using satirical comedy. Richards lost his temper at hecklers and addressed two men personally with racially charged comments.

Both were being racist, were they not? One said it with a mean voice another with a smile on his face. So what? They were both saying racist things. "Enlighten people" give me a break that's the most asinine thing I've heard in years.

[JoeBen81]

John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.
1. I don't think I have asked you specifically
2. I ask again only becauseI don't see how someone who watched the video can compare the two, they arn not even remotely the same.

I doubt either one of us feel like trying to convince the other, so I'll just respectfully agree to disagree. But coming from someone who has seen every stand up comedy special in the last 30 years (yes, I know) as well as plenty of live ones that bombed, and understands satirical context quite well.... there is no comparison.

[JoeBen81]

John Galt wrote:

The problem for Richards here was that the audience instead of laughing as they normally did started whining about how it was uncalled for. Whatever. It's a comedy club.

You disappoint me, Galt.. oh well.

[John Galt]

JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.
1. I don't think I have asked you specifically
2. I ask again only becauseI don't see how someone who watched the video can compare the two, they arn not even remotely the same.

I doubt either one of us feel like trying to convince the other, so I'll just respectfully agree to disagree. But coming from someone who has seen every stand up comedy special in the last 30 years (yes, I know) as well as plenty of live ones that bombed, and understands satirical context quite well.... there is no comparison.

Actually, you did directly ask me and I directly responded. Again, yes he made racist comments.

So does every other comic. If you are to jump on Richards about it you should jump on all other comics for trying to pass of racism as comedy. I know he was screaming. I don't really care. The inflection of his voice shouldn't matter. I also think it was still "comical" in the same way other comics do comedy these days. It's fine if you want to say he was saying racist things. But I hope you see that all other comics say racists things everyday and people pay them to hear more. Hahahahahaha racism.

[JoeBen81]

John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

There is only "one meaning"? Why do certain blacks, usually rap "artists" call each other **** then?

No, it has different meanings by who is using it. It's why the audience members started crying. Their feelings were hurt. A white man said ****. Only blacks can say that word! We're all equal, only not! At all! Certian people can say certian things! No one else!!!!!

Boo-hoo.

The word only has weight because people cry about it and whites have such a guilt complex over what OTHER PEOPLE DID A LONG TIME AGO that they think that someone else calling them disparaging racist names is okay. It's why you think nothing of cracker. Look, someone is degrading you. It doesn't matter. But HA HA it's Chris Rock he's so funny.

Yes Chris Rock had a smile on his face. He always has a smile on his face. ALWAYS. He could be screaming and he has a smile on his face. In fact I know he was doing both when he said that. And he didn't just do it in a comedy club. He got paid big money for saying that. And we all laugh.

Ha ha ha. Racism and sexism are funny.
All due respect Galt, but have you even seen the video?? I know you smart enough that if you watched this clip and the Chris rock ones, they're hardly comparable.... have you see the clip??

Why do you keep asking me this? For the last time, YES I have watched it.
1. I don't think I have asked you specifically
2. I ask again only becauseI don't see how someone who watched the video can compare the two, they arn not even remotely the same.

I doubt either one of us feel like trying to convince the other, so I'll just respectfully agree to disagree. But coming from someone who has seen every stand up comedy special in the last 30 years (yes, I know) as well as plenty of live ones that bombed, and understands satirical context quite well.... there is no comparison.

Actually, you did directly ask me and I directly responded. Again, yes he made racist comments.

Ahh, you're correct.
I apologize for my lack of short-term memory... drugs are bad kids.


John Galt wrote:
So does every other comic. If you are to jump on Richards about it you should jump on all other comics for trying to pass of racism as comedy. I know he was screaming. I don't really care. The inflection of his voice shouldn't matter. I also think it was still "comical" in the same way other comics do comedy these days. It's fine if you want to say he was saying racist things. But I hope you see that all other comics say racists things everyday and people pay them to hear more. Hahahahahaha racism.

Still disagree. Other comics saying rasict things in a comical context does not compare.... to a comic screaming rasict things, not to illicit a laugh from the crowd, but to demean an actual audince member. If you can't tell the difference there we have gone as far as we can. I understand and appreciate the argument of a double standard, however, IMO it does not apply here. I'm tapped out on this topic. peace.

[John Galt]

You weren't upset about racist comments, then, you were upset about the loud noises.

You don't seem phased if a comic makes racist jokes. But if a comic makes racist loud noises, oh man, that's akin to the lamb opening the first seal and the four horsemen descending upon the world.

The double standard is here. It really shouldn't matter HOW he said it. He said some racist things. Yes. I agree. He did. How he said it should not matter. He said racist things, so does every other comic. He gets pounced on since he yelled it instead of said it, while other comics are given money.

In fact what's far worse about other comics solicit laughs from racists jokes since it becomes ingrained as being acceptable.

[The Grandmaster]

John Galt wrote: ubikk wrote: FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.


I disagree. The men were being extremely rude in the way they heckled Richards and they deserved to be humiliated but Richards should have known better than to use race as retort. That suggests that the fault lies with the fact that the men were black, rather than the simple fact that they were just a**holes, regardless of skin color. That's what racism is.

Comics use racism all the time. It's kind of their thing. I have not actually defended Richards -- screaming at someone that they are a **** is not particularly nice. But calling people crackers isn't nice either. The audience typically laughs at racists jokes. Most all comics resort to racism, sexism or gay jokes. They all do it. They use the pain of others to make people laugh. ha ha hahah hahahahahaha racism is funny.

The problem for Richards here was that the audience instead of laughing as they normally did started whining about how it was uncalled for. Whatever. It's a comedy club. Comics are the one batch of people who don't get fired from their jobs for being racist. In fact, being racist is a large part of their job. My contention is that Richards really did nothing out of the ordinary other than he picked on a group that isn't "allowed" to be picked on by white people.

The thing is, one of the quickest ways to equality is for all of us to be fair game for a bad joke. Really, anything, if said in a light manner in the right context, can be funny, if it it not meant to be offensive. Yes, even these might offend some people, but usually not on a large scale. It it really the intention here, not the method, that is important. Your reference to Chris Rock isn't comparable because he isn't being vindictive or deliberately hurtful. Richards clearly had broken keyfabe, and was no longer "Comedy Man" but "really mad real life guy." People could tell he wasn't trying to be funny, he was trying to incite fury and anger.

That's why in everday life, you can say something, and someone might go.."Dude...what did you say?"

"Haha, aww man I was joking."

"Oh...hahahaha, cool."

It's really just okay if you're joking. It isn't if you're not.

[Achilles The Myrmidon]

John Galt wrote: I don't think it was really that bad, although I could be wrong. The people in the audience start crying since "the n word" is one of those words only certain people can use. They start saying it was "uncalled for" yeah well, comics make fun of people. Why is it that people get all upset about him using this word? He was on stage, people were heckling and he heckled back. That's what stand up comics do....

If Chris Rock started calling people Cracker then everyone would laugh. "Look at that Cracker ass. Cracker cracker cracker. Cracker-- we've got a cracker here." I'm fairly sure I've heard him actually say this. Ha ha, it's funny... at least people are laughing. But here with Richards the audience starts crying. They need to grow up. BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JoeBen81]

Amazing..... Oh well.

[Zoot]

I'm not from a country where one ethnic group kept other human beings as personal possessions, like animals, for generations. So I don't pretend to understand the subtleties of why a word used to refer to these dehumanised possessions - nígger - is more offensive than one used to refer to their oppressive owners - cracker.

But I will say that the difference between dealing with a heckler like a comedian and spitting the dummy like a child is that the comedian makes it funny.

[Ek0nomik]

Apology: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9107547518165183938&q=Michael+Richards&hl=en