Political Crossfire Forums

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21683 Location: Minnesota

Well to be clear one must understand the context. They are in a comedy club. If someone did that here, they would naturally be banned from ever saying it again. But if someone is going to a comedy club -- where typically people laugh at X person or groups expense, you may be X and you have to live with that. They got very upset about it and I think their reaction was far worse than his. Yes, he screamed and wasn't saying it in a "funny voice" but comics don't laugh at their own jokes (not that he made up that as a joke, I could see him naturally being upset but as the man with the mic he is still in control and can turn whatever heckling he got right back at the other people).

That word is so charged that if someone who is not black uses it people get "offended".

It was a comedy club. That's basically the take home message. Comedy club. Getting offended from this at a comedy club is like being offended by nudity at a strip club.

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

I don't think he was joking. That's the trouble. I'm pretty mouthy and what have you.. but that really did not sound like he was trying to be funny... maybe at first with the 'fork up the ass' comment.. but after that, it went downhill and didn't sound.... like he was joking or even attempting to sound funny. Especially given his tone when he started yelling about "f***ing interrupting me" blah blah blah.

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4791

John Galt wrote: Well to be clear one must understand the context. They are in a comedy club. If someone did that here, they would naturally be banned from ever saying it again. But if someone is going to a comedy club -- where typically people laugh at X person or groups expense, you may be X and you have to live with that. They got very upset about it and I think their reaction was far worse than his. Yes, he screamed and wasn't saying it in a "funny voice" but comics don't laugh at their own jokes (not that he made up that as a joke, I could see him naturally being upset but as the man with the mic he is still in control and can turn whatever heckling he got right back at the other people).

That word is so charged that if someone who is not black uses it people get "offended".

It was a comedy club. That's basically the take home message. Comedy club. Getting offended from this at a comedy club is like being offended by nudity at a strip club.

I hear ya. But to me, it's like going to the strip club and getting a lap dance... only to have the stripper sh!t in my lap.

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21683 Location: Minnesota

JoeBen81 wrote: John Galt wrote: Well to be clear one must understand the context. They are in a comedy club. If someone did that here, they would naturally be banned from ever saying it again. But if someone is going to a comedy club -- where typically people laugh at X person or groups expense, you may be X and you have to live with that. They got very upset about it and I think their reaction was far worse than his. Yes, he screamed and wasn't saying it in a "funny voice" but comics don't laugh at their own jokes (not that he made up that as a joke, I could see him naturally being upset but as the man with the mic he is still in control and can turn whatever heckling he got right back at the other people).

That word is so charged that if someone who is not black uses it people get "offended".

It was a comedy club. That's basically the take home message. Comedy club. Getting offended from this at a comedy club is like being offended by nudity at a strip club.

I hear ya. But to me, it's like going to the strip club and getting a lap dance... only to have the stripper sh!t in my lap.

My point is a comedy club is that kind of strip club. They have hecklers and they hecklers are well, literally, asking for it. They know what they are doing but then they get beat up and start crying about it. But they asked for Kramer to give them a lap dance with a Clev... what you said.

Numb · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 273

One thing I just gotta know, was the audience entertained?

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

Numb wrote: One thing I just gotta know, was the audience entertained?

Watch the video. I would say no.

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4791

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Numb wrote: One thing I just gotta know, was the audience entertained?

Watch the video. I would say no.

Shocked and disgusted, mostly. Some people were chuckling, but I would guess because they couldn't believe what a pyhco he was being. Laughing it off is a way I deal with extreme uneasiness in situations like that, I imagine the one chucking were feeling the same way.

JDHURF · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 4051 Location: Tulsa, OK

John Galt wrote: I don't think it was really that bad, although I could be wrong. The people in the audience start crying since "the n word" is one of those words only certain people can use. They start saying it was "uncalled for" yeah well, comics make fun of people. Why is it that people get all upset about him using this word? He was on stage, people were heckling and he heckled back. That's what stand up comics do....

If Chris Rock started calling people Cracker then everyone would laugh. "Look at that Cracker ass. Cracker cracker cracker. Cracker-- we've got a cracker here." I'm fairly sure I've heard him actually say this. Ha ha, it's funny... at least people are laughing. But here with Richards the audience starts crying. They need to grow up. Yes, however, it is the context in which such words are used which deems their usage either acceptable or unacceptable. If he had said, in a facetious and sarcastic tone, “he’s a ****” it wouldn’t have been offensive; white comics are using that specific term more and more without trouble: George Carlin and Lisa Lampaneli coming directly to mind. The thing is that Richards did not do this, he did not say these things in a clearly sarcastic or facetious manner. It was loud, overt and hostile; it was, in no way, funny whatsoever.

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 19129

I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 16443 Location: On Earth

I really liked Kramer... I really did... but this is too much.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t.

+1

Incase any of you are wondering, he apparently is on David Letterman tonight and apologizes via satellite. Jerry Seinfeld is tonights guest too. Kinda ironic, eh?

http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/sorry-seems-to-be-the-hardest-word/

JDHURF · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 4051 Location: Tulsa, OK

FCTE wrote: I think he went too far, but no one has a problem when it's not a white guy like Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia telling racist jokes.

Double standards are bullsh!t. You are conflating the issue. Richards did not tell a joke, he was angry, overt and hostile in his claims that fifty years ago blacks would be hung upside down with forks up their asses and that those heckling him were “ni**ers.” This was not a joke it was a racist tirade. White comics tell racist jokes all of the time, George Carlin, Lisa Lampanelli, Nick DePalo, Jim Norton and there is no problem; you are conflating the issue.

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 19129

JDHURF wrote: You are conflating the issue. Richards did not tell a joke, he was angry, overt and hostile in his claims that fifty years ago blacks would be hung upside down with forks up their asses and that those heckling him were “ni**ers.” This was not a joke it was a racist tirade. White comics tell racist jokes all of the time, George Carlin, Lisa Lampanelli, Nick DePalo, Jim Norton and there is no problem; you are conflating the issue.

Not quite, I don't think it started out that way, but degraded immediately when it backfired.

JDHURF · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 4051 Location: Tulsa, OK

FCTE wrote: JDHURF wrote: You are conflating the issue. Richards did not tell a joke, he was angry, overt and hostile in his claims that fifty years ago blacks would be hung upside down with forks up their asses and that those heckling him were “ni**ers.” This was not a joke it was a racist tirade. White comics tell racist jokes all of the time, George Carlin, Lisa Lampanelli, Nick DePalo, Jim Norton and there is no problem; you are conflating the issue.

Not quite, I don't think it started out that way, but degraded immediately when it backfired. Irregardless of however you believe it started, it ended up as an angry, overt and hostile racist tirade – not a joke – that much is clear. My point is also that your claim of racial comedic double standard is fictitious.

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21683 Location: Minnesota

JDHURF wrote: FCTE wrote: JDHURF wrote: You are conflating the issue. Richards did not tell a joke, he was angry, overt and hostile in his claims that fifty years ago blacks would be hung upside down with forks up their asses and that those heckling him were “ni**ers.” This was not a joke it was a racist tirade. White comics tell racist jokes all of the time, George Carlin, Lisa Lampanelli, Nick DePalo, Jim Norton and there is no problem; you are conflating the issue.

Not quite, I don't think it started out that way, but degraded immediately when it backfired. Irregardless of however you believe it started, it ended up as an angry, overt and hostile racist tirade – not a joke – that much is clear. My point is also that your claim of racial comedic double standard is fictitious.

The difference between a "hostile racist tirade" and a "joke" is the way the audience takes it. There are plenty of comics who do basically the same thing and people laugh. They didn't laugh here. Suddenly it's a "tirade".

Chris Rock:

''Cracker-ass cracker!

''l'll put my foot in the crack of your ass,
cracker-ass cracker!

''l wish that cracker would've said some s**t
to me, saltine-assed, motherf****** cracker!

''Cracker, kiss my ass, you f***ing cracker!''

The Grandmaster · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:03 am Post subject:

I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word. It is almost as though cracker has recently come into parlance as being a supposed equivalent counterpart, however, it’s almost as though some word was needed to offset the n word, and this was all that could be come up with. Cracker can also have many meanings. There is only one meaning for the n word. And it also has a much longer pedigree and is far further engrained into the minds of the populous. Basically, the two are nowhere near equivalent, and so not really comparable.

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4791

John Galt wrote: JDHURF wrote: FCTE wrote: JDHURF wrote: You are conflating the issue. Richards did not tell a joke, he was angry, overt and hostile in his claims that fifty years ago blacks would be hung upside down with forks up their asses and that those heckling him were “ni**ers.” This was not a joke it was a racist tirade. White comics tell racist jokes all of the time, George Carlin, Lisa Lampanelli, Nick DePalo, Jim Norton and there is no problem; you are conflating the issue.

Not quite, I don't think it started out that way, but degraded immediately when it backfired. Irregardless of however you believe it started, it ended up as an angry, overt and hostile racist tirade – not a joke – that much is clear. My point is also that your claim of racial comedic double standard is fictitious.

The difference between a "hostile racist tirade" and a "joke" is the way the audience takes it. There are plenty of comics who do basically the same thing and people laugh. They didn't laugh here. Suddenly it's a "tirade".

Chris Rock:

''Cracker-ass cracker!

''l'll put my foot in the crack of your ass,
cracker-ass cracker!

''l wish that cracker would've said some s**t
to me, saltine-assed, motherf****** cracker!

''Cracker, kiss my ass, you f***ing cracker!''
Yea but Chris Rock said it with a smile on his face and wasn't screaming and pointing at white audince members. At this point I don't understand why some people are still downplaying this as a botched joke, it was nothing of the sort. I'm not calling for his head, but there is no defense or excuse. I understand how comdey clubs works, I've been to plenty. And I understand how unscrpted and crazy Richards can be. Still, this was nothing like any black comdeians' "cracker" comment, and to suggest it was, is well.... IMO.

JoeBen81 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 4791

The Grandmaster wrote: I think Cracker is understood as not being anywhere near the vehemence and potency of its counterpart, the n word.
I agree, perhaps this is the real issue some people are having.....

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

I think it boils down to this.

He may have been joking and the audience may have been too sensitive.

He may not have been joking and the audience may have been right to get pissed.

He may have just been a dumbass and didn't know when to stop and some people in the audience got pissed since he had addressed someone personally and the others were sitting there thinking they fell asleep and was having a surreal dream.

We will never know... and that's fine. Some people will continue liking him and his comedy and some of us who didn't really care for him before will not suddenly like him and we'll like him even less now.

I'm just ready for some spiked eggnog but it's only 9am in the morning and I'm at work.

Sooooo

s*cks to be me right now.

Ellron · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2281 Location: NY upstate

I think his appology on Letterman showed some character or was just a last ditch effort.

Its hard to appologize especially in this case.

Like Galt said earlier if it was a black man saying cracker cracker there would not be a big deal and it is true.

Even if a black said it with anger in his voice he would not be looked down on because the white people he would be calling cracker would be considered races in some way and they deserve it.