Political Crossfire Forums

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Good, bad, ugly

It appears the writer of this article feels that Sony almost slapped together their online plan at the last minute...
Also he brings up some interesting points about the system including :

Quote: When you speak to developers privately, they express a stunning level of frustration. Repeated delays in the delivery of online APIs, delays in coming-up with online testing kit, incomplete or missing libraries, promised features that are never delivered. The list goes on and on. They have to deal with the bloat of the OS, which eats up nearly 100 MB of memory (and one SPU), and provides very little functionality to the game. In comparison, the OS for the Xbox is rumored to only use up 3.5 MB.
Odd since apparently the OS for the PS3 is Linux based and of course the 360's is built by MS.

Quote: As to the notion that - unlike Xbox Live with its subscription-based charges- to the fact that the service is free, the reality is that you get what you pay for. The multiplayer experience on the PS3 will pale in comparison to Xbox Live. The only games that will do well are the ones using Xfire, or those where the developer has invested a lot of their time creating a fun multiplayer experience.

It seems that Sony hasn’t actually learned their lesson from their days supporting developers on the PS2. Perhaps they will only realize their mistake once they have been knocked off their perch at the top. Let’s hope it’s not too late by then.

Leaving the games themselves up to companies is not as good as it sounds as the article points out. What is stopping EA from charging whatever to play Madden online or something? They are not allowed to do that because of MS' policy. Apparently Sony is leaving this up to devs.

Quote: Sony also provides a web browser at no extra cost. It remains to be seen who exactly Sony is targeting with the web browser (perhaps the WebTV demographic), but it is consistent with their goal of making the PS3 a computer. I personally can’t see why you’d ever want to browse the web without a mouse or keyboard, but the PS3 also caters for that with their support of all USB standard devices. You can plug in any USB keyboard, and it’ll be instantly recognized.
This is great news. Hopefully if someone releases something like C&C for a PS 3 it will be keyboard/mouse enabled.

Free Thinkr · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:05 am Post subject:

I found the hardware to be very impressive. I like the layout.

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 18879

Quote: All in all, the PlayStation 3 is one of the most takeapart-ready consoles we've ever seen, an enormous departure from the Xbox 360 mentality. We've already completed our first hack by attaching a 320GB hard drive to the console, and the system hasn't even launched in the US yet.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: I found the hardware to be very impressive. I like the layout.
Unfortunately for Sony however as impresive as the hardware may be, their Linux based OS is apparently a huge resource hog taking away a lot from what the actual games can use.
Also apparently the programmers aren't too impressed with how difficult it is to make games for the PS 3.

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 18879

Venom wrote: their Linux based OS is apparently a huge resource hog taking away a lot from what the actual games can use.

Based on an opinion piece written in a blog with the added benefit of "rumors" used as their comparison between the two operating systems. :lol:

It's not the Linux kernel that is the bloat, it's Sony's XMB user interface, which happens to be the same user interface on the PSP and I don't hear any complaints of bloat on the PSP which has far far less resources than the PS3.

PricklySponge · Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 9222

FCTE wrote: Quote: All in all, the PlayStation 3 is one of the most takeapart-ready consoles we've ever seen, an enormous departure from the Xbox 360 mentality. We've already completed our first hack by attaching a 320GB hard drive to the console, and the system hasn't even launched in the US yet.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148135
8:)

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 18879

PricklySponge wrote: FCTE wrote: Quote: All in all, the PlayStation 3 is one of the most takeapart-ready consoles we've ever seen, an enormous departure from the Xbox 360 mentality. We've already completed our first hack by attaching a 320GB hard drive to the console, and the system hasn't even launched in the US yet.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148135
8:)

Beyond the gaming capabilities these will make excellent low cost high performance desktops, servers, PVR's, and supercomputing clusters for only $600 a pop. Built in WiFi is a huge plus.

Their sales are gonna be huge as the sky is the limit with these machines. It should have multiple operating systems in less than a year. Unlike the original Xbox that required a mod chip, soldering, a new hard drive that wasn't MS locked, or unique software hacks this thing is already set up to run multiple operating systems with little effort.

PricklySponge · Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 9222

FCTE wrote: PricklySponge wrote: FCTE wrote: Quote: All in all, the PlayStation 3 is one of the most takeapart-ready consoles we've ever seen, an enormous departure from the Xbox 360 mentality. We've already completed our first hack by attaching a 320GB hard drive to the console, and the system hasn't even launched in the US yet.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148135
8:)

Beyond the gaming capabilities these will make excellent low cost high performance desktops, servers, PVR's, and supercomputing clusters for only $600 a pop. Built in WiFi is a huge plus.

Their sales are gonna be huge as the sky is the limit with these machines. It should have multiple operating systems in less than a year. Unlike the original Xbox that required a mod chip, soldering, a new hard drive that wasn't MS locked, or unique software hacks this thing is already set up to run multiple operating systems with little effort. once the price drops.

Free Thinkr · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject:

FCTE wrote: PricklySponge wrote: FCTE wrote: Quote: All in all, the PlayStation 3 is one of the most takeapart-ready consoles we've ever seen, an enormous departure from the Xbox 360 mentality. We've already completed our first hack by attaching a 320GB hard drive to the console, and the system hasn't even launched in the US yet.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148135
8:)

Beyond the gaming capabilities these will make excellent low cost high performance desktops, servers, PVR's, and supercomputing clusters for only $600 a pop. Built in WiFi is a huge plus.

Their sales are gonna be huge as the sky is the limit with these machines. It should have multiple operating systems in less than a year. Unlike the original Xbox that required a mod chip, soldering, a new hard drive that wasn't MS locked, or unique software hacks this thing is already set up to run multiple operating systems with little effort.
I've got to say, Sony has changed my mind a bit. I really am impressed with their hardware. We'll see what happens with the games, but I have a hard time believing that Sony will have a hard time getting developers to turn out quality games in the long run. That hard drive is badass, BTW; the 7200.10 series with the perpendicular recording is the shiznitobam.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: Beyond the gaming capabilities these will make excellent low cost high performance desktops, servers, PVR's, and supercomputing clusters for only $600 a pop.
And yet it's a gaming console. If I wanted a computer.... I'd buy a computer.
Also it is no longer $600 a pop as you've shown with your HD quote (even though your supposed to put a source when you quote).
Lets look at Prickly's link. A $230 HD, so now we are at $830 before buying a game, before buying HD cables.

Quote: Their sales are gonna be huge as the sky is the limit with these machines
No sales will be huge because it's brand name and due to a few key exclusives (Metal Gear Solid, etc).
Also the vast majority of people that purchase a PS 3 will not mod it, will not change it's OS, will do nothing but play games and maybe watch a movie on it.

Quote: It should have multiple operating systems in less than a year. Unlike the original Xbox that required a mod chip, soldering, a new hard drive that wasn't MS locked, or unique software hacks this thing is already set up to run multiple operating systems with little effort.
Good for them... because we all know that being able to mod your system doesn't lead to rampant cheating in consoles right?

Quote: Please........... load up Halo 2 on Xbox Live and I'll show you some major cheating.
This is from you a previous thread in which you complain of the cheating in Halo 2. Where does this cheating come from? Why alterning the system, not just simply downloading/installing some uber hack like CS (yup even VAC servers are loaded with cheaters). Now since you can apparently alter the system... you might just very well be able to download a cheat for say Resistance.
So while you smile now with joy to the idea of being able to alter so much of your system, remember this will become a fault later on when people are flying in Resistance or whatever is the popular game that everyone feels the need to cheat.

Of course now we have the warranty to worry about. Hopefully they aren't complete pricks and see no problem with switching out a HD with a different one. However as with every other console in the past, if you actually take it apart your warranty is gone. If you mod it, your warranty is gone.
Of course consoles all have a great track record of not breaking so who needs a warranty right?

FCTE · Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 18879

Venom wrote: And yet it's a gaming console. If I wanted a computer.... I'd buy a computer.

That's you. Other people want the most for their money and you can have the best of both worlds for cheaper.

Quote: Also it is no longer $600 a pop as you've shown with your HD quote (even though your supposed to put a source when you quote).
Lets look at Prickly's link. A $230 HD, so now we are at $830 before buying a game, before buying HD cables.

The 60GB is plenty for a basic desktop or server. Why would you buy games when you can download them off of bittorrent for free? No HD cables necessary, you can just connect it to a monitor everyone already owns.

Quote: No sales will be huge because it's brand name and due to a few key exclusives (Metal Gear Solid, etc).

Their market share is expected to drop to 50% and the 360 and Wii take the other 50. With all the crap Sony has been pulling lately their base has become disgruntled, which means loss of sales.

Quote: Also the vast majority of people that purchase a PS 3 will not mod it, will not change it's OS, will do nothing but play games and maybe watch a movie on it.

I don't give a damn what the vast majority does. A great deal of people will mod the sh!t out of it and get the machine to go way beyond what it was designed to do. The original Xbox is still going strong as desktops, PVR's, servers, and clusters and it will live on for a long time as it has so many uses as a cheap PC.

Quote: Good for them... because we all know that being able to mod your system doesn't lead to rampant cheating in consoles right?

Well locking the box down isn't going to do anything. The 360 has new hacks frequently and there is nothing anyone can do to stop a machine from being dissected, reverse engineered, hacked, and modded, it's inevitable.

Quote: This is from you a previous thread in which you complain of the cheating in Halo 2.

I wasn't complaining, I hate Halo, I was using it as an example that the Xbox and Xbox Live will never be cheat proof no matter what they do. Someone somewhere will crack anything eventually.

Quote: Where does this cheating come from? Why alterning the system, not just simply downloading/installing some uber hack like CS (yup even VAC servers are loaded with cheaters). Now since you can apparently alter the system... you might just very well be able to download a cheat for say Resistance. So while you smile now with joy to the idea of being able to alter so much of your system, remember this will become a fault later on when people are flying in Resistance or whatever is the popular game that everyone feels the need to cheat.

Irrelevant, the 360 will not be free from hacks, nothing is hackproof.

Quote: Of course now we have the warranty to worry about. Hopefully they aren't complete pricks and see no problem with switching out a HD with a different one. However as with every other console in the past, if you actually take it apart your warranty is gone. If you mod it, your warranty is gone. Of course consoles all have a great track record of not breaking so who needs a warranty right?

If you don't know how to mod a system then odds are your not going to, but for people who know how it won't matter, it depends on your skill level. I don't worry about warranties and anyone who mods won't give a rats ass either.

Swapping out a hard drive and loading a CD isn't very demanding.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: That's you. Other people want the most for their money and you can have the best of both worlds for cheaper.
The vast majority of people buy a game console to play games, not to surf the internet, not to be some server, etc... as they already own PCs as you've stated :
Quote: And you still fail to realize that most people own PC's like they have toilets in their homes
Nevermind the vast majority of people will not know how to nor will they want to alter their systems to perform the actions of a computer.

Quote: The 60GB is plenty for a basic desktop or server. Why would you buy games when you can download them off of bittorrent for free?
60GB for a game console that has some of the games that require the Blu-ray still inserted that will install up to 5gbs of information on the HD. That will go fast. As for downloading free games, most free games are crap, and if your downloading new titles that is called "illegal". Another thing that the vast majority of people will not be doing on their PS 3.

Quote: Their market share is expected to drop to 50% and the 360 and Wii take the other 50. With all the crap Sony has been pulling lately their base has become disgruntled, which means loss of sales.
The internet is disgruntled, the masses don't even know the price let alone what Sony has been pulling. The masses create market share more than the active people on internet forums and gaming news sites.

Quote: don't give a damn what the vast majority does. A great deal of people will mod the sh!t out of it and get the machine to go way beyond what it was designed to do. The original Xbox is still going strong as desktops, PVR's, servers, and clusters and it will live on for a long time as it has so many uses as a cheap PC.

You tried to make a point that a great reason for a lot of people to run out and buy a PS 3 was because it was open to being modded, yet the vast majority will not do this and this is of zero importance to them. It's about as important as an HDMI cable is to someone with a 10 year old TV...
Many use the Xbox as a cheap PC? O rly? Show me a number for this many....

Quote: Well locking the box down isn't going to do anything. The 360 has new hacks frequently and there is nothing anyone can do to stop a machine from being dissected, reverse engineered, hacked, and modded, it's inevitable.
Yet there is a difference to leaving it open and locking it down. Xbox Live has a history of banning those that found to be modded. MS has gone through the trouble of software updates to detect modding to help stop cheating.
As for the 360 having new hacks frequently can you show me something to bakc up these statements? I went to http://www.xbox360-hacks.com/xbox360-hacks.php and found no cache of cheats.
Yes it will be done, yes people will always find away around it. However making it easier will only mean more and more is done.

Quote: I wasn't complaining, I hate Halo, I was using it as an example that the Xbox and Xbox Live will never be cheat proof no matter what they do. Someone somewhere will crack anything eventually.

Yes but making it harder means that less people will crack it and more than likely less people will be able to take advantage of it. Meanwhile if a system is incredibly easy to mod that only increases the scope of the hacks/mods.

Quote: Irrelevant, the 360 will not be free from hacks, nothing is hackproof.
It's not irrelevant at all. Being a system that is much easier to create hacks/mods for is far from irrelevant.

Quote: If you don't know how to mod a system then odds are your not going to, but for people who know how it won't matter, it depends on your skill level. I don't worry about warranties and anyone who mods won't give a rats ass either.
Your right it depends on skill level, a skill level the vast majority of people don't have. Also it's nice to point out that with the way that systems break I think a lot of people would worry about blowing $600 down a hole with no warranty to back it up.

Quote: Swapping out a hard drive and loading a CD isn't very demanding
Yet many people are unable to install video card drivers on a PC...
The vast majority will find this demanding.

Quote: No HD cables necessary, you can just connect it to a monitor everyone already owns.
You don't have to buy HD cables, no you have to buy cables so you can now hook it up to your monitor. My Samsung 204t will not accept the cables from a PS 3 or a Xbox 360... so again your buying cables.
Oh and if you own a computer monitor odds are you own a computer.. so why do you need a PS 3 to act as a computer again if you already have one?

Nathan · Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Florida

I won't ever know if the PS3 is good, because I refuse to pay that much money for a console. I do like how the service is free.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Free is of course a great thing. However I am willing to pay $3 a month for the difference in service, just for the voice chat in games alone (such as Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Call of Duty 3, etc). Playing Gears of War for the 360 really made this chat feature shine. Anyone that has raided in WoW realizes how much more useful voice chat is to games than not having it. in COD 3 for the 360 I can call out hey Im grabbing the flag or watch out there is a tank up to the right. In the PS 3 I don't have this feature. That's huge.

Nathan · Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Florida

Venom wrote: Free is of course a great thing. However I am willing to pay $3 a month for the difference in service, just for the voice chat in games alone (such as Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Call of Duty 3, etc). Playing Gears of War for the 360 really made this chat feature shine. Anyone that has raided in WoW realizes how much more useful voice chat is to games than not having it. in COD 3 for the 360 I can call out hey Im grabbing the flag or watch out there is a tank up to the right. In the PS 3 I don't have this feature. That's huge.

I agree. Voice chat helps a lot in Halo 2.