Political Crossfire Forums

californian conservative · Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2714 Location: Michigan

Venom wrote: AgentKGB wrote: Yeah I'll bet that was exactly their intention.
Running to a militant target that is set to be bombed and chanting death to Israel seems to show their intentions...
Don't worry these people chanting the death of the Jews and supporting terrorism are just innocent civilians...:roll:

Quote: Because if they leave the house often the sniping technology is there so that you don't have to really worry about your sniper being taken out.
Well that's not entirely true because snipers have to be within a decent range, thus putting them deep in Palestinian territory. Also since it's an urban setting there is a lot of line of sight issues.
Coaltion snipers are killed in Iraq even with the best of sniping technology. It wouldn't be difficult for a group of Palestinian militants to dress up like normal civilians (which apparently is their outfit anyways..) and just rush the sniper once they are close with easily conceled weapons such as pistols or even a suicide vest.
Sniping is very risky business because your often outnumbered, in enemy control territory, and without very close support if you get rushed if found.

well, i can see the line of sight issues. But even still the range and scopes on some of those sniper rifles are really ridiculous. You could shoot from farther away than anyone could see you (if you had a nice vantage point, like a hill)

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: well, i can see the line of sight issues. But even still the range and scopes on some of those sniper rifles are really ridiculous. You could shoot from farther away than anyone could see you (if you had a nice vantage point, like a hill
True but extreme range shootings are very rare as they are incrediably hard to pull off. The average sniper kill in Iraq is about 300 meters. That is not really that far away.
Also the target may not be able to see you, however people may see you going to your vantage point and thus tell someone which could lead to an attack or ambush.

californian conservative · Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2714 Location: Michigan

Venom wrote: Quote: well, i can see the line of sight issues. But even still the range and scopes on some of those sniper rifles are really ridiculous. You could shoot from farther away than anyone could see you (if you had a nice vantage point, like a hill
True but extreme range shootings are very rare as they are incrediably hard to pull off. The average sniper kill in Iraq is about 300 meters. That is not really that far away.
Also the target may not be able to see you, however people may see you going to your vantage point and thus tell someone which could lead to an attack or ambush.

well, it would (hopefully) be pulled off by someone who could do it from really really far away, but i guess yeah my argument for snipers is flawed.

agentkgb · Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 2241 Location: US

Venom wrote: Quote: They might have just wanted Israel to stop bombing their country.

They were chanting "Death to Israel". Not "Stop Violence" or even "Stop bombing us", no they yelled as loud as they could that they want all the Jews inside of Israel wiped out.
They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.

Venom wrote: Quote: I thought it was "Death to Israel."
Israel, a Jewish state. If Israel was wiping out Palestine would that not be called genocide of Muslims? So if Muslims went into Israel to wipe them out wouldn't that be genocide against Jews? SO yes they are advocating the death of the Jews.
You can destroy a country without killing all its people. A country is a thing on paper.

Venom wrote: Quote: Israel being the country that was about to bomb their land, it's not surprising that they aren't it's biggest fan
Oddly enough they weren't fans of Israel prior to them bombing Palestine.
Some of them might not even have been alive before then.

Venom wrote: Quote: Israel isn't synomous with Jews, Jews are people and Israel is a country.
Israel is a Jewish state. So I argue yes it's synomous with Jews. Palestine, Iran, Hezbollah, Syria, etc seem to think so.
Then they're wrong. There are a lot of Jews who don't live in Israel. If I supported the destrcution of Iran, that would in no way mean I supported the destruction of Muslims even though Iran is an Islamic nation.

californian conservative · Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2714 Location: Michigan

agentkgb wrote: Venom wrote: Quote: They might have just wanted Israel to stop bombing their country.

They were chanting "Death to Israel". Not "Stop Violence" or even "Stop bombing us", no they yelled as loud as they could that they want all the Jews inside of Israel wiped out.
They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.

I'm pissed off at someone for warning me ahead of time so that i can leave that i'm going to blow up a building that contains a terrorist?

agentkgb · Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 2241 Location: US

californian conservative wrote: agentkgb wrote: Venom wrote: Quote: They might have just wanted Israel to stop bombing their country.

They were chanting "Death to Israel". Not "Stop Violence" or even "Stop bombing us", no they yelled as loud as they could that they want all the Jews inside of Israel wiped out.
They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.

I'm pissed off at someone for warning me ahead of time so that i can leave that i'm going to blow up a building that contains a terrorist?
They would be pissed because Israel bombs Palestine.

californian conservative · Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2714 Location: Michigan

agentkgb wrote: californian conservative wrote: agentkgb wrote: Venom wrote: Quote: They might have just wanted Israel to stop bombing their country.

They were chanting "Death to Israel". Not "Stop Violence" or even "Stop bombing us", no they yelled as loud as they could that they want all the Jews inside of Israel wiped out.
They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.

I'm pissed off at someone for warning me ahead of time so that i can leave that i'm going to blow up a building that contains a terrorist?
They would be pissed because Israel bombs Palestine.

I don't see crowds of Israelis chanting Death to Palestine

1. First of all they would be called blood thirsty
2. They'd probably be blown up by a suicide bomber trying to kill as many as possible.

agentkgb · Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Posts: 2241 Location: US

californian conservative wrote: I don't see crowds of Israelis chanting Death to Palestine
No, but you do see them bombing Palestine. They're not trying to destroy Palestine but they're doing a lot more harm than the people standing as a human shield were.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.
Thats not true. I wouldn't be.
Maybe they should try being pissed at the militants for continued attacks on Israel that bring Israel into Palestine? No, it appears it's far too simple to blame everything on Israel.

Quote: You can destroy a country without killing all its people. A country is a thing on paper.

Countries that are "destroyed' usually involved a lot of people dying.

Quote: Some of them might not even have been alive before then.
Ok so what? They continue the hate against Israel for simply existing.

Quote: Then they're wrong. There are a lot of Jews who don't live in Israel. If I supported the destrcution of Iran, that would in no way mean I supported the destruction of Muslims even though Iran is an Islamic nation.
They may be wrong, however they think they are right/
Also many people, myself included, do support the descruction of Iran, and the destruction of radical Islam. The reasoning for attacking Iran is because of it's radical islamic base in which is against Israel because they are Jews.
Would Israel be a problem if it was a Muslim nation? I'd bet no.
Also they advocate the death of Jews around the globe, not just Israel, which is a Jewish Nation.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

californian conservative wrote: agentkgb wrote: Venom wrote: Quote: They might have just wanted Israel to stop bombing their country.

They were chanting "Death to Israel". Not "Stop Violence" or even "Stop bombing us", no they yelled as loud as they could that they want all the Jews inside of Israel wiped out.
They were pissed at Israel, anyone would have been.

I'm pissed off at someone for warning me ahead of time so that i can leave that i'm going to blow up a building that contains a terrorist?

What do you expect?! Real people live in these houses. Their homes are all they have left. What right does Israel have to take it away from them? None. None whatsoever, regardless of who occupies it. Death is bad, but turning someone into a refugee IN HIS OWN LAND is even more evil.

It's called non-violent resistance. At least they're not lobbing rockets or whatever.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: What right does Israel have to take it away from them? None. None whatsoever, regardless of who occupies it. Death is bad, but turning someone into a refugee IN HIS OWN LAND is even more evil.

What right does Israel have? I'm going to go with "The Right To Exist".

Now not blowing up a house, regardless of who occupies it is an utterly blind blanket statement. I guess if Hitler was in Palestine, in a house, they shouldn't bomb it because they have no right to blow the house up? I'd drop 15 2,000lb bombs on a house Hitler was in.

Also these real people have no problem blowing up Israeli homes with their rockets...

Quote: It's called non-violent resistance. At least they're not lobbing rockets or whatever
A non-violent resistance? They are protecting militants Saracen... militants use weapons to kill people. That is FAR from non-violent. Also chanting "Death to Israel' is just a great stance to take of course..
They are PROTECTING people that attack Israel, so by default they are ATTACKING Israel themselves.

californian conservative · Joined: 08 Jul 2006 Posts: 2714 Location: Michigan

agentkgb wrote: californian conservative wrote: I don't see crowds of Israelis chanting Death to Palestine
No, but you do see them bombing Palestine. They're not trying to destroy Palestine but they're doing a lot more harm than the people standing as a human shield were.

Israeli civilians bomb Palestinians? We are dealing with civilians here.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

Venom wrote: What right does Israel have? I'm going to go with "The Right To Exist".

Now not blowing up a house, regardless of who occupies it is an utterly blind blanket statement. I guess if Hitler was in Palestine, in a house, they shouldn't bomb it because they have no right to blow the house up? I'd drop 15 2,000lb bombs on a house Hitler was in.

I'm not going to answer your post because you just brought up two Hitler comparisons.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7442 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: It's called non-violent resistance. At least they're not lobbing rockets or whatever.

No they are just defending an admitted member of the PRC an avowed terrorist group. All this will do is prevent us from avoiding more civilian casualties by either elemintating or shortening extremely the warning time we give.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

superskippy wrote: Quote: It's called non-violent resistance. At least they're not lobbing rockets or whatever.

No they are just defending an admitted member of the PRC an avowed terrorist group. All this will do is prevent us from avoiding more civilian casualties by either elemintating or shortening extremely the warning time we give.

They're doing it willingly: there are more innocents in that building than a PRC member. They're not doing it because the PRC member told them to.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7442 Location: Petah Tikva

It was a house Saracen we gave the man 30 minutes to get his family out of the house if he had any inside. That is more than enough time, they werent defending anyone.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15233 Location: On Earth

superskippy wrote: It was a house Saracen we gave the man 30 minutes to get his family out of the house if he had any inside. That is more than enough time, they werent defending anyone.

There is no excuse to destroy the homes of innocents just to attack the fly inside it. The innocents I speak of are his family.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7442 Location: Petah Tikva

Come on, the house is untouchable because he has a family? The family wouldnt have been harmed he would have taken them out and probably carried with them a healthy sum of cash or similar valuables. He doesnt get a free ride because he has a family. Would it be more preferable to you if we had simply shot him?

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

I once had hope for Palestine.....

emerald · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 6934 Location: uk

Quote: Thats not true. I wouldn't be.
Maybe they should try being pissed at the militants for continued attacks on Israel that bring Israel into Palestine? No, it appears it's far too simple to blame everything on Israel.

ummmmm.......so you would not be pissed off that someone else was about to bomb your house?

i'm sorry but i have a hard time beleiving that. After sept 11th attacks two whole countries were attacked, hundreds of thousands killed, and the those countries still suffering from that instability today, were the americans just a little pissed off that they were attacked?? i'd say so, with good reason, it's human nature to be just a tad annoyed that you're being bombed.

Quote: They may be wrong, however they think they are right/
Also many people, myself included, do support the descruction of Iran, and the destruction of radical Islam. The reasoning for attacking Iran is because of it's radical islamic base in which is against Israel because they are Jews.
Would Israel be a problem if it was a Muslim nation? I'd bet no.
Also they advocate the death of Jews around the globe, not just Israel, which is a Jewish Nation.

so you can choose which countries have a right to exist and which just dont?? is that how a good democracy works, you either beleive what we believe, think how we think and do as we tell you or you'll be attacked??

israel would be a problem if it was a country for any other faith also, if muslims occupied it then there wouldnt be an issue, or wouldnt have been when muslims were a majority.

it astounds me how one sided any individual can be about this conflict, and how you assume israel has all these rights, all these human emotions, and feelings and all these rights to attack, the right to defence, the right to go against international law, yet the palestinians according to you just have no rights and no human emotion, because they are afterall all blood thirsty, terrorist supporters that want israel to no longer exist. yet suprisingly israel seems to be ensuring the downfall of palestinians and palestine in a way that would be unimaginable if they didnt have the Usa vetoing everything.