Political Crossfire Forums

[Nine_Enigmas]

The Russian wrote: Nine_Enigmas wrote: The Russian wrote: Nine_Enigmas wrote: The Russian wrote: Clarino wrote: The Russian wrote:
If the middle east starts a conflict with the US or Israel, count me in... if WE start the conflict, I'm blowing this hot-dog stand.


What if Israel starts a war? I mean, lets face it, that's the most likely scenario.

are you nuts?... its been in several multi-national military conflicts... except ALL of them were started by arab countries...

how quickly we forget...

A hee hee.

All is a bad descriptor. In the six-day war, the first act of war was carried out by Israel as a pre-emptive strike due to perceived hostilities. (The destruction of the Egyptian air force)

Its hard to call that a defensive war, unless we go by Bush's definition, in which case nobody ever fights a war of aggression.

what?... in the six day war, Egypt faked doing practice maneuvers near the Israeli border, turned and crossed the border and killed people in the area... Israel was not aware of the attack till after it had happened. Only then were jets scrambled.

Funny how history changes in the telling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570433/Six-Day_War.html

even

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html

Quote: By this time, Israeli forces had been on alert for three weeks. The country could not remain fully mobilized indefinitely, nor could it allow its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba to be interdicted. Israel decided to preempt the expected Arab attack. To do this successfully, Israel needed the element of surprise. Had it waited for an Arab invasion, Israel would have been at a potentially catastrophic disadvantage.

Again, all is a bad descriptor. In this case you are in error. Even Israel admits that it was a pre-emptive attack to what they felt was an imminent war. But there's was the opening shot, all the same.

Oops, wrong war, this is the Third conflict... so, tell me, how would you interpret a naval blockade of your nations ships, the removal of peace keeping forces from the borders, the support of Fadayeen who were *already* staging raids into your country, and a build-up of military forces along the border...

Quote: The 1956 Suez War represented for Egypt a military defeat, but a political victory. Heavy diplomatic pressure from both the United States and the Soviet Union forced Israel to withdraw its military from the Sinai Peninsula. After the 1956 war, Egypt agreed to the stationing of a UN peacekeeping force in the Sinai, U.N.E.F. (United Nations Emergency Force), to keep that border region demilitarized, and prevent guerrillas from crossing the border into Israel. As a result the border between Egypt and Israel quieted for a while.

The air strike may have been the first, but it was clearly forced... when a 4 nation army is at your border with planes, tanks, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers... you dont presume they've come to bring you flowers.

Aggressive, perhaps, but if Naval blockades and troop build-ups were acts of war, our cold war with the USSR would have gotten hot fast.

Perhaps it was inevitable, perhaps it was mere posturing, depends on who you ask (The arab nations or the Israeli's). Regardless, that war was initiated by the Israeli's, simply proving my point that "all" is not an apt descriptor of this situation.

As some historians have put it, there are at least four histories to any event: My side, your side, what "really happened", and the Truth.

Israel is not always the victim - nor is it always the perpetrator - but a bit of both, just like everyone else.

[The Russian]

Nine_Enigmas wrote: The Russian wrote: Nine_Enigmas wrote: The Russian wrote: Nine_Enigmas wrote: The Russian wrote: Clarino wrote: The Russian wrote:
If the middle east starts a conflict with the US or Israel, count me in... if WE start the conflict, I'm blowing this hot-dog stand.


What if Israel starts a war? I mean, lets face it, that's the most likely scenario.

are you nuts?... its been in several multi-national military conflicts... except ALL of them were started by arab countries...

how quickly we forget...

A hee hee.

All is a bad descriptor. In the six-day war, the first act of war was carried out by Israel as a pre-emptive strike due to perceived hostilities. (The destruction of the Egyptian air force)

Its hard to call that a defensive war, unless we go by Bush's definition, in which case nobody ever fights a war of aggression.

what?... in the six day war, Egypt faked doing practice maneuvers near the Israeli border, turned and crossed the border and killed people in the area... Israel was not aware of the attack till after it had happened. Only then were jets scrambled.

Funny how history changes in the telling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570433/Six-Day_War.html

even

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html

Quote: By this time, Israeli forces had been on alert for three weeks. The country could not remain fully mobilized indefinitely, nor could it allow its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba to be interdicted. Israel decided to preempt the expected Arab attack. To do this successfully, Israel needed the element of surprise. Had it waited for an Arab invasion, Israel would have been at a potentially catastrophic disadvantage.

Again, all is a bad descriptor. In this case you are in error. Even Israel admits that it was a pre-emptive attack to what they felt was an imminent war. But there's was the opening shot, all the same.

Oops, wrong war, this is the Third conflict... so, tell me, how would you interpret a naval blockade of your nations ships, the removal of peace keeping forces from the borders, the support of Fadayeen who were *already* staging raids into your country, and a build-up of military forces along the border...

Quote: The 1956 Suez War represented for Egypt a military defeat, but a political victory. Heavy diplomatic pressure from both the United States and the Soviet Union forced Israel to withdraw its military from the Sinai Peninsula. After the 1956 war, Egypt agreed to the stationing of a UN peacekeeping force in the Sinai, U.N.E.F. (United Nations Emergency Force), to keep that border region demilitarized, and prevent guerrillas from crossing the border into Israel. As a result the border between Egypt and Israel quieted for a while.

The air strike may have been the first, but it was clearly forced... when a 4 nation army is at your border with planes, tanks, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers... you dont presume they've come to bring you flowers.

Aggressive, perhaps, but if Naval blockades and troop build-ups were acts of war, our cold war with the USSR would have gotten hot fast.

Perhaps it was inevitable, perhaps it was mere posturing, depends on who you ask (The arab nations or the Israeli's). Regardless, that war was initiated by the Israeli's, simply proving my point that "all" is not an apt descriptor of this situation.

As some historians have put it, there are at least four histories to any event: My side, your side, what "really happened", and the Truth.

Israel is not always the victim - nor is it always the perpetrator - but a bit of both, just like everyone else.

the cold war never broke out, the six-day war was the third major conflict within a decade involving nation vs. nation wars against israel, I think the guess-work was taken out. (and we're not even counting the non-national terrorist acts that were backed by those govts)

[Mr. Sunshine]

Sands wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Some of us must answer this question in the past tense. 8:)
The poll question included the past tense. Very astute. I wanted to highlight the fact that many here have done the deed decades ago so the younguns would get a sense of tradition about their duty. 8:)

[Kane]

eynon wrote: Kane wrote: I registered...

and all I got to show for it was...

:think: :lol: :lol:

what........you didn't get the t-shirt?

It's funny...I had to wait three more years to drink legally. I needed one right then and there I tell you what... :lol:

[Clarino]

The Russian wrote: Clarino wrote: The Russian wrote:
If the middle east starts a conflict with the US or Israel, count me in... if WE start the conflict, I'm blowing this hot-dog stand.


What if Israel starts a war? I mean, lets face it, that's the most likely scenario.

are you nuts?... its been in several multi-national military conflicts... except ALL of them were started by arab countries...

how quickly we forget...


Well, as you should be aware by now that is not correct. Anyway, what about my question?

[gavnook]

eynon wrote: gavnook wrote: I never did. I got stuff in the mail at my dad's house for it while I was somewhere far away in the Army.

:lol: oh the irony.......

oh course you register, if the commie-nazis attacked the gov would need to know where to find ya........just makes things easier.

They're such a mess. I never let the Army know where I moved to after I got out and they never found me. The IRS knows where I am, the VA knows, the State of Arizona knows, but the Army doesn't. I know this because I never received whatever it is they send out when you're IRR time is up. It could be that I've been stop-lossed in that, but it's pretty unlikely. In any case, I'm sure the Army wouldn't want me back, and I wouldn't go.

[Medius]

The Russian wrote: I applied for financial aid, I had to register.

If we engage in a conflict reminiscint of WWII, i'd join up, but if its anything politcaly motivated like Nam, Korea, or Iraq... I'll be eating canadian bacon for a looong time... i'm not far from the border.

If the middle east starts a conflict with the US or Israel, count me in... if WE start the conflict, I'm blowing this hot-dog stand.

Agreed, I reigistered to help defend fellow americans if it becomes necessary. I will do what I can to keep myself from being used for some imperialistic goal. It isn't that I'm against the draft but rather that I am against how it is now used.

[LostSoul3412]

I registered on my 18th birthday, but not only because it was the law;

I registered because it was also my duty as a citizen.

[Black Sheep 5]

Thrilla wrote: yes.. I registered... a couple of weeks before i enlisted Me too, but I was smart and joined the Army. Damn Jarhead.

[Sands]

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Sands wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Some of us must answer this question in the past tense. 8:)
The poll question included the past tense. Very astute. I wanted to highlight the fact that many here have done the deed decades ago so the younguns would get a sense of tradition about their duty. 8:)
I wrote the question that way for just that purpose.

I registered on my 18th b-day in '65, got my physical notice at xmas same year, enlisted the day after new years '66. Sunday morning 01/02/66.

And you're right about the generation of today

[Eclectic]

Sands wrote: I asked this question in one of the draft threads and it was ignored, so I'll pose it on it's own.

From the Military Selective Service Act...

Sec. 453. Registration

(a)

Except as otherwise provided in this title (sections 451 to 471a of this Appendix) it
shall be the duty of every male citizen of the United States, and every other male
person residing in the United States, who, on the day or days fixed for the first or
any subsequent registration, is between the ages of eighteen and twenty-six, to
present himself for and submit to registration at such time or times and place or
places, and in such manner, as shall be determined by proclamation of the
President and by rules and regulations prescribed hereunder. The provisions of this
section shall not be applicable to any alien lawfully admitted to the United States as
a nonimmigrant under section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as
amended (66 Stat. 163; 8 U.S.C. 1101), for so long as he continues to maintain a
lawful nonimmigrant status in the United States.

Would you or have you registered?

I absolutely refused to register for Selective Services, on the principal that I was not willing to volunteer for anything that could lead to violence. As far as I was concerned, if they knew enough to keep sending me multiple "reminders" then they already knew I existed and that the registration only served as my acceptance, which I had no intention of giving.

[The Newb]

Thrilla wrote: The Newb wrote: Thrilla wrote: yes.. I registered... a couple of weeks before i enlisted

i enlisted before i had to register :snoot: newb :lol:

hehe well.....yeah i guess, but ive got my time in, im on the downside to retirement :dance:

[foadi]

no. doubt i ever will.

[Akajjred]

Mr. Sunshine wrote: Sands wrote: Mr. Sunshine wrote: Some of us must answer this question in the past tense. 8:)
The poll question included the past tense. Very astute. I wanted to highlight the fact that many here have done the deed decades ago so the younguns would get a sense of tradition about their duty. 8:)

Read Slaughterhouse-Five and come back to me.

[Black Sheep 5]

gavnook wrote: eynon wrote: gavnook wrote: I never did. I got stuff in the mail at my dad's house for it while I was somewhere far away in the Army.

:lol: oh the irony.......

oh course you register, if the commie-nazis attacked the gov would need to know where to find ya........just makes things easier.

They're such a mess. I never let the Army know where I moved to after I got out and they never found me. The IRS knows where I am, the VA knows, the State of Arizona knows, but the Army doesn't. I know this because I never received whatever it is they send out when you're IRR time is up. It could be that I've been stop-lossed in that, but it's pretty unlikely. In any case, I'm sure the Army wouldn't want me back, and I wouldn't go. The Army actually sends you a message when your IRR is up?

[homerjay_s]

I registered for selective service when I turned 18. I haven't heard a thing since. The military must be doing something right, inspite of the recent disasterous leadership at the very top.