Political Crossfire Forums

eynon · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Heaven and man.

perdidochas wrote: Narvik wrote: Why doesn't God let us all live in heaven?
He let angels live in heaven, doesn't he? Why does he test us? First he created us in the paradise, right? But 2 persons sinned and all of humanity is forever punished, but if you're a good human you can still go to heaven.

Why didn't God just make us all angels that live in heaven and are always happy?

Not all angels are in heaven. Satan, for instance, is a fallen angel.

but as Job shows us he still has access to the lord......

Narvik · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 607 Location: Orsa

The Comrade wrote: Narvik wrote:
God made us flawed and then punishes all of humanity for all eternity for it. Even those who follow the Bible are punished while they live here on earth since it's not pure joy.Wasn't it really stupid of God to make us as curious as he made us and the place us in the paradise? Isn't it evil of God to later punish us for it?

god didn't make us curious. the tempter did.
okay, thank you, i didn't know that. But shouldn't God, who surely has more power than the tempter, be able to change us?

Narvik wrote: We can come to heaven, do we lose our free will when we get there? If not, why didn't God create a heaven where it's possible to have free will (paradise doesn't count).

how would i know? i've never been there. i would assume that you don't lose your freewill, as there would be no reason to take it away. and since god created us in his image, saying we wouldn't have free will says god doesn't have free will.[/quote]
But then again, why does god have to test us? why didn't he just create us in heaven? Why does his creation have to be punished for all eternity?

Narvik · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 607 Location: Orsa

psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: My question was: why didn't he create us in heaven?

Do we lose our free will when we get to heaven? If not, why didn't God create us in heaven. If so, how can we be more powerful than angels?
My point was that you have the power and freedom to return to Heaven whensoever you should desire to.

I bet you didn't even bother looking up the reference in Luke 17:21 I mentioned earlier, did you?
I looked at eynon´s post.
Is it implying that heaven is within me? Can you please clarify how I can reach heaven? Even though I like the life on earth I bet that the heaven would be better.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Narvik wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: My question was: why didn't he create us in heaven?

Do we lose our free will when we get to heaven? If not, why didn't God create us in heaven. If so, how can we be more powerful than angels?
My point was that you have the power and freedom to return to Heaven whensoever you should desire to.

I bet you didn't even bother looking up the reference in Luke 17:21 I mentioned earlier, did you?
I looked at eynon´s post.
Is it implying that heaven is within me?
Yes.

Quote: Can you please clarify how I can reach heaven?
Obey Divine Law

Quote: Even though I like the life on earth I bet that the heaven would be better.
Earth is not that different from Heaven.. or from Hell..

Narvik · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 607 Location: Orsa

psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: My question was: why didn't he create us in heaven?

Do we lose our free will when we get to heaven? If not, why didn't God create us in heaven. If so, how can we be more powerful than angels?
My point was that you have the power and freedom to return to Heaven whensoever you should desire to.

I bet you didn't even bother looking up the reference in Luke 17:21 I mentioned earlier, did you?
I looked at eynon´s post.
Is it implying that heaven is within me?
Yes.
In which way?

Quote: Can you please clarify how I can reach heaven?
Obey Divine Law[/quote] Quote:
But you said that i can reach heaven whenever i want to.
If i obey the divine law i am not supposed to take suicide, at least i thought so.

Quote: Even though I like the life on earth I bet that the heaven would be better.
Earth is not that different from Heaven.. or from Hell..
Then why strive to get to heaven?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 3940 Location: Florida

psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...

greeneye · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Heaven and man.

feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...

Yea... it's a funny thing ... how people are dying to get there. :wink:

Angelicus · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 4682

Of course, assuming, (I know a dangerous thing too do) that you believe the Bible as the scriptural authority, the answers as I see them, in a nutshell are as follows.

Narvik wrote: Why doesn't God let us all live in heaven?

Because God never intended for mankind too live there he intended for us to live here, on a perfect earth. And ultimately, thats not where we will live, in the end, those of us who are born again will wind up living on a new earth, under a new heaven.

Narvik wrote: He let angels live in heaven, doesn't he? Why does he test us? First he created us in the paradise, right? But 2 persons sinned and all of humanity is forever punished, but if you're a good human you can still go to heaven.

Actually we don't know that. In the scriptures we see them there, but thats not too say that they "live" there. As far as we know, God may have them living somewhere else, and they can travel back and forth.

Yes 2 People sinned, and thanks to them, every other human being too follow, except for ONE Jesus Christ himself, has sinned too.

No human being, is good. You show me a human being that says they are good. And I'll show you a bold faced liar.

Narvik wrote: Why didn't God just make us all angels that live in heaven and are always happy?

Because thats not what the purpose or the intent God had, when creating us.

eynon · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Heaven and man.

greeneye wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...

Yea... it's a funny thing ... how people are dying to get there. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 22958

Quote: Earth is not that different from Heaven.. or from Hell..

Interesting.

Please explain in detail.

eynon · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:

John wrote: Quote: Earth is not that different from Heaven.. or from Hell..

Interesting.

Please explain in detail.

I've heard that before........even been in bible studies where the teachers talk about living in hell on earth.........so yeah Paul, expand.......

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 12039 Location: Zagreb

Narvik wrote:
okay, thank you, i didn't know that. But shouldn't God, who surely has more power than the tempter, be able to change us?

he can't change free will. we chose to be this way.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 3940 Location: Florida

psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...
Don't ask questions if you aren't prepared for the answer.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 3940 Location: Florida

psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...
Don't ask questions if you aren't prepared for the answer.

I asked no question here and the gospels are nothing to me...

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 22958

feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...
Don't ask questions if you aren't prepared for the answer.

I asked no question here and the gospels are nothing to me...

Then there is no answer for you here.

eynon · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Heaven and man.

feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...
Don't ask questions if you aren't prepared for the answer.

I asked no question here and the gospels are nothing to me...

really? like not even books of wisdom, or stories about a nice guy?

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 3940 Location: Florida

John wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: feederband wrote: psholtz wrote: Narvik wrote: Then why strive to get to heaven?
Heaven is immortal and incorruptible..

It's a better deal than life here on Earth.

No living person has ever told me what heaven was like...Come to think of it no dead ones either...
Read your Gospels..

There are many descriptions therein of what Heaven is like..

As much as can be communicated from one human to another using words..

Heaven is a like a small mustard, etc, etc..

Gospels ...Word written by men claiming something...
Don't ask questions if you aren't prepared for the answer.

I asked no question here and the gospels are nothing to me...

Then there is no answer for you here.

Ok..