Political Crossfire Forums

cool_chick · Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 20115 Location: Chicago

Kilo Tango wrote: cool_chick wrote: Kilo Tango wrote: I thought it was the anti-war party?

You were mislead. That never, ever was true. That was another lying talking point on the part of Republicans. No, it's true, most "anti-war" voters vote democrat.

No, it's not true. The party is not "anti-war." Never have been.

JDinPhilly · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Philly PA

Heinz wrote: Quote: I couldn't agree more.

With what? That he's full of s**t?

Do you know the difference between being forced to work and signing up to work? I'll give a clue:

One is optional and the other is not.

One's called slavery and the other's called choice.

Even if there's a draft, which I pray there isn't, it is far from slavery.

slav·er·y n. , pl. -ies . The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household. Service people get paid, housing, medical care Slaves get whipped. People could be in a lot worse plaves then the military. Being drafted would probably be a step up for a lot of people.

Ozzone · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject:

JDinPhilly wrote: Why not re institute the draft? It might actually open up peoples eyes to whats going on with their own country and in the world. If a letter came in the mail and said that you had to report for your physical, your Ipod and cell phone might not seem like the most important thing in the world any more. You might actually care about whom gets voted into office or pay attention to what country your country is bombing or helping. People start giving a siht when their ass is on the line. And maybe the people voting to go to war might think and vote differently if they have family involved. Just a thought :-D

I never thought about it this way. Imagine all those hoodlums waiting in line for the PS3. They were butchering each other over the damn game. Put them to better use.

Tek · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 64

JDinPhilly wrote: Why not re institute the draft? It might actually open up peoples eyes to whats going on with their own country and in the world. If a letter came in the mail and said that you had to report for your physical, your Ipod and cell phone might not seem like the most important thing in the world any more. You might actually care about whom gets voted into office or pay attention to what country your country is bombing or helping. People start giving a siht when their ass is on the line. And maybe the people voting to go to war might think and vote differently if they have family involved. Just a thought :-D
Agreed My good friend, we as citizen only care for ourselves an ourselves alone. We should not only fight for the light of liberty and democracy for ourselves but yet the whole world must be enlightened to this beam. Those words are so tasteless on the lips of the lazy, ignorant American who see those as only words because they are more than words they are Idea’s and a way of life. Think about it you can live in a despot being killed for the very words the lazy Americans say and do. So be grateful of what you have as a American citizen so we can keep it “the way it ought to be”™ and not a Socialist Union overflowed and in debt.

Heinz · Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 1636 Location: Philadelphia

Quote: slav·er·y n. , pl. -ies . The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

Thanks for making my point.

They're not property.

JDinPhilly · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Philly PA

Heinz wrote: Quote: People start giving a siht when their ass is on the line. And maybe the people voting to go to war might think and vote differently if they have family involved

Considering the military is 75% Republican, I would venture to say that a good majority of them do have family over there or anywhere.

I thought the military has no political affiliation?

Heinz · Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 1636 Location: Philadelphia

Quote: I thought the military has no political affiliation?

As a group they don't, but the individual members of the military are in political parties.

JDinPhilly · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Philly PA

Heinz wrote: Quote: I thought the military has no political affiliation?

As a group they don't, but the individual members of the military are in political parties.
I was trying to do a search online to find that statistic. Can you post a link so I can read more about that? (the 75% republican thing)

Moracca · Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 2821 Location: ar-Raba, KOM

Ozzone wrote: The hidden purpose of enacting the draft to start conscription is simple. The liberal, anti-war Democrats (and that includes Murtha and Sangel), want to infest the military with dissenters. 100% of the military now is voluntary and those members CHOSE to serve. That is why you hear very little, if any, anti-war sentiment in the military. Oh there's a lone voice now and then, or a service member goes UA or deserts, but that is the rare, extreme case.

The Democrats are fully aware that the vast majority of military lean Republican and they know the only way to change that is with a draft. In today's world of politics, numbers mean everything and the Democrats want to increase their ranks, even in the military.

Awesome breakdown Ozzone! I think that you nailed it. :clap:

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Oh crap, all those that send US troops to die might actually have to die themselves. How illogical.

But on a serious note I will personanlly harbor or at least find places for US draft dodgers to hide if the time comes. Any government that forces it's people into the army does not deserve to exist.

Ek0nomik · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: La Fleur

I still don't understand how making the draft active is any different than our current situation? We have a draft setup, we just aren't /drafting/ people.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Ozzone wrote: The hidden purpose of enacting the draft to start conscription is simple. The liberal, anti-war Democrats (and that includes Murtha and Sangel), want to infest the military with dissenters. 100% of the military now is voluntary and those members CHOSE to serve. That is why you hear very little, if any, anti-war sentiment in the military. Oh there's a lone voice now and then, or a service member goes UA or deserts, but that is the rare, extreme case.

Or maybe they want to show all the chickenhawks and those others that put war out of their minds what war is really like. In fact, they should just conscript everybody that voted for bush the second time. That would prevent all these dessenters you speak of...wouldn't it? :lol:

But either way, both your explanation and mine is absolute conjecture.

Eduffy80911 · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 4541

Canada_Rocks wrote: Ozzone wrote: The hidden purpose of enacting the draft to start conscription is simple. The liberal, anti-war Democrats (and that includes Murtha and Sangel), want to infest the military with dissenters. 100% of the military now is voluntary and those members CHOSE to serve. That is why you hear very little, if any, anti-war sentiment in the military. Oh there's a lone voice now and then, or a service member goes UA or deserts, but that is the rare, extreme case.

Or maybe they want to show all the chickenhawks and those others that put war out of their minds what war is really like. In fact, they should just conscript everybody that voted for bush the second time. That would prevent all these dessenters you speak of...wouldn't it? :lol:

But either way, both your explanation and mine is absolute conjecture.

no, Ozzone's is actually right on the money.
The left is very upset that more people in the military aren't very upset.

Tek · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 64

Canada_Rocks wrote: Oh crap, all those that send US troops to die might actually have to die themselves. How illogical.

But on a serious note I will personally harbor or at least find places for US draft dodgers to hide if the time comes. Any government that forces it's people into the army does not deserve to exist.

I believe It is the duty of the citizen to protect his country. Personally I think It would Nucking futs if I would have to go to the army but I would do it anyways as my duty to server my country Its people and the way of life *answers apply to last statement to the paragraph of your statement.*

On the post above me*

Yes I think That Person is "on the money". I perfer button but who cares.

Eduffy80911 · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 4541

cool_chick wrote: Kilo Tango wrote: cool_chick wrote: Kilo Tango wrote: I thought it was the anti-war party?

You were mislead. That never, ever was true. That was another lying talking point on the part of Republicans. No, it's true, most "anti-war" voters vote democrat.

No, it's not true. The party is not "anti-war." Never have been.

that's true, Dems aren't anti-war, they're just extremely anti-Republican.

If this war had been started by a Democrat it would be going much better. The media would be supportive and the Republicans wouldn't have spent 3 + years trying to demoralize the troops and the public at large. There wouldn't have been partisan unity, they just would have chosen other battles (taxes, regs, etc).

pyrophasma · Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 591 Location: Georgia

JDinPhilly wrote:
slav·er·y n. , pl. -ies . The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household. Service people get paid, housing, medical care Slaves get whipped. People could be in a lot worse plaves then the military. Being drafted would probably be a step up for a lot of people.

Slaves were compensated for their labor as well. Food, lodging, healthcare when they were older.

But that still didn't change the nature of the relationship. You were forced to do the work, and if you didn't, you would be punished. You wanted to go out on your own and be a hunter, or tradesman? Not so fast negro, get back in the field.

You want to be an accountant, or maybe an electrician? Heh, strap up, soldier.

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Tek wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Oh crap, all those that send US troops to die might actually have to die themselves. How illogical.

But on a serious note I will personally harbor or at least find places for US draft dodgers to hide if the time comes. Any government that forces it's people into the army does not deserve to exist.

I believe It is the duty of the citizen to protect his country. Personally I think It would Nucking futs if I would have to go to the army but I would do it anyways as my duty to server my country Its people and the way of life *answers apply to last statement to the paragraph of your statement.*

It isn't your duty to be forced into an armed conflict becasue of political agendas. If you believe the war is just then you should just enlist. The draft exists because people don't always agree with it's overnments intentions so the government must raise it's fascist hamd and force you to obey. This is not freedom of liberty. I persoanlly believe if our great nations were attacked, like actually attacked, almost every able bodied person would fight. 15 percent of Canada's population volunteer to fight in WW2 and they were still volunteering by 1945. I am pretty sure the US was similar. It just goes to show what people are willing to do when the cause is correct. And in WW2 they weren't doing it for college scholarships and as a job.

Tek · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 64

Canada_Rocks wrote: Tek wrote: Canada_Rocks wrote: Oh crap, all those that send US troops to die might actually have to die themselves. How illogical.

But on a serious note I will personally harbor or at least find places for US draft dodgers to hide if the time comes. Any government that forces it's people into the army does not deserve to exist.

I believe It is the duty of the citizen to protect his country. Personally I think It would Nucking futs if I would have to go to the army but I would do it anyways as my duty to server my country Its people and the way of life *answers apply to last statement to the paragraph of your statement.*

It isn't your duty to be forced into an armed conflict becasue of political agendas. If you believe the war is just then you should just enlist. The draft exists because people don't always agree with it's overnments intentions so the government must raise it's fascist hamd and force you to obey. This is not freedom of liberty. I persoanlly believe if our great nations were attacked, like actually attacked, almost every able bodied person would fight. 15 percent of Canada's population volunteer to fight in WW2 and they were still volunteering by 1945. I am pretty sure the US was similar. It just goes to show what people are willing to do when the cause is correct. And in WW2 they weren't doing it for college scholarships and as a job. I would fight the war even if I did not like it out of respect. If I get killed then so shall It be. But unless It was a Civil war ( in America) that would be a whole different agenda.( Just to help you use the SpelChek(tm) not tring to be a jerk just making you seem a bit smrater :). )

Kilo Tango · Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 8701 Location: D.C.

cool_chick wrote: Kilo Tango wrote: cool_chick wrote: Kilo Tango wrote: I thought it was the anti-war party?

You were mislead. That never, ever was true. That was another lying talking point on the part of Republicans. No, it's true, most "anti-war" voters vote democrat.

No, it's not true. The party is not "anti-war." Never have been. Well, it's still true that most "anti-war" people currently vote democrat. Are you disputing that?

Canada_Rocks · Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 9012 Location: Vancouver

Tek wrote: I would fight the war even if I did not like it out of respect. If I get killed then so shall It be.

And this prove percisely why the US does not need to draft soldiers.

1) it goes against freedom and liberty
2) It is fascist
3) The government will always have reserve forces to fight in a just war.

Whether you choose to fight or not is irrelevant. The fact is you are choosing, not being forced. You can't justify something by saying "Well I would do it anyways so who cares if they force us." You don't speak for other people.

Quote:
But unless It was a Civil war ( in America) that would be a whole different agenda.( Just to help you use the SpelChek(tm) not tring to be a jerk just making you seem a bit smrater :). )

Huh?