Political Crossfire Forums

[Kumar]

People need to learn to stop making foolish assumptions.

[Babylon_Horuv]

foadi wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: foadi wrote: TwinkieDP wrote: foadi wrote: i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state. How would u do that??
Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong will show the path.

From Snow Crash?
yes

I thought Snow Crash painted a very pleasant society when I was about 14. I now realize it would be a pretty Hellish place to live.

[XiangYu]

Apparently the governments in the USA and Canada don't feel an overwhelming need to break up these "Ethnic Enclaves". Of course every Canadian citizen has a right to travel anywhere in his/her country, to be treated with respect, and offered service for proper payment, so long as everyone respects each other's private space and property. Other than that, I don't see the reasoning to force people to live where they don't wish to.

[d00d]

I live just outside Toronto. I am Indian and I have a lot of family that lives in Toronto. They live in Rexdale which is primarily an East Indian area.

The way I see it is that a lot of these ethnic neighborhoods were at one time primarily white. They become ALL CHINESE or ALL INDIAN because at one point an Indian guy probably moved into that white neighborhood and then the whites didn't want an Indian guy living in their neighborhood so they moved out and more and more Indian people began moving in.

The following scenario applies to Brampton Ontario. There was a time when Brampton was all white. When the huge influx of East Indian immigrants came about all the white people packed up and moved North to Caledon cuz they didn't want to live along side with Indian people.

Anyway, ethnic neighborhoods don't bother me at all. Like I said earlier I'm Indian and I grew up in a primarily portuguese and italian neighborhood and I thought it was pretty kool.

[Superfly]

Live and let live.

Damn.

[Kumar]

Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

[Superfly]

Kumar wrote: Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

I disagree. I feel that society is developing, as a result of immigrants even being here. Remember, the whole "melting pot" thing? This whole country is founded on immigration, and I see nothing wrong with allowing people to feel comfortable with their surroundings, while trying to acclimate to their new surroundings.

I'll bet you're one of those people who gets pissed off when you here "Press One for English, Press Two for Spanish". :lol:

[ieatfood]

Kumar wrote: Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

no evidence that american or canadian society is "sliding away"
you are just making false justifications for your hatred of foreign cultures.

[Kumar]

Superfly wrote:
I disagree. I feel that society is developing, as a result of immigrants even being here. Remember, the whole "melting pot" thing? This whole country is founded on immigration, and I see nothing wrong with allowing people to feel comfortable with their surroundings, while trying to acclimate to their new surroundings.
Right. The problem is when their surroundings inhibit their ability to adapt to their new surroundings. Maximizing interactions with those who speak the same language and practice traditions used in their homeland while minimizing interactions with other groups encourages factionalization and social tension. Why should this be tolerated or encouraged? There is no logic to it whatsoever.

Quote: I'll bet you're one of those people who gets pissed off when you here "Press One for English, Press Two for Spanish".
Nope, although the second option in Canada is French, an official language along with English. The example you provide is helpful to new immigrants who have not had ample time to adapt to their new country. I would of course expect these people to eventually disregard such a feature as they become integrated.

[Babylon_Horuv]

Superfly wrote: Kumar wrote: Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

I disagree. I feel that society is developing, as a result of immigrants even being here. Remember, the whole "melting pot" thing? This whole country is founded on immigration, and I see nothing wrong with allowing people to feel comfortable with their surroundings, while trying to acclimate to their new surroundings.

I'll bet you're one of those people who gets pissed off when you here "Press One for English, Press Two for Spanish". :lol:

The melting pot concept asssumes that immigrants integrate into society. Canada, however, is envisioned as a quilt instead of a melting pot, and has implemented that concept quite successfully. Canada has been repeatedly voted the best place in the world to live.

[Kumar]

Babylon_Horuv wrote:
The melting pot concept asssumes that immigrants integrate into society. Canada, however, is envisioned as a quilt instead of a melting pot, and has implemented that concept quite successfully. Canada has been repeatedly voted the best place in the world to live.
The cracks are already beginning to appear. We will soon have to have a domestic battle like the one being had in many European nations: how much tolerance is really necessary?

[Kumar]

ieatfood wrote: Kumar wrote: Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

no evidence that american or canadian society is "sliding away"
you are just making false justifications for your hatred of foreign cultures.
How exactly do I hate foreign cultures? You need to stop making things up.

I merely recognize that not all cultures are equal. The belief that they are is a destructive force.

[GCWallace]

America and Canada are NOT melting pots where everything mixes, they are salad bowls, Tomatoes and lettuce never merge into tomattuce

If the 'old country' was so good, why did you leave? Since there were enough problems to warrant you moving to my great nation, I suggest you come up to my nation's standards, not drag mine down to your nations level.

[Kumar]

Indeed. Excessive tolerance of other cultures has detrimental effects on national cohesion.

[cap'n queasy]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: It always irritates me to see ethnic neighborhoods where the majority of the people in a neighborhood are from one part of the world or from one ethnicity. For example, I was in Toronto and there is the China town, little Tehran, little Italy, little Seoul, Greek Town, Jewish neighborhood, little somalia, etc etc ... When you walk in these places, I see people living as if they are in another country. They can't even speak English nor have any interest in interacting with "foreigners".

I don't understand to be honest. Why do people move to a new country if they just want to live as if they were living in their old country? Do you think there should be any laws about these places such as requiring these people to learn English?


I found an interesting site about the ethnic make up:

http://www.walkingaround.com/

Why should people have to live their lives in a way that you or anyone else finds non-irritating?

[slitedeviance]

I do find it strange that the argument is always "These guys are not assimilating, and they clearly have no desire to adhere to my nations beliefs and practices" without any element of self criticism going on. Sure, there are ethnic immigrants who do not want to assimilate or conform to the host societies ideals, but assuming that this is the only situation in which this applies is failing to recognise that there are citizens of the state who also do not want to assimilate or conform. In the UK I'd probably fit into the latter category: I do not place importance on wealth, i do not believe in the ultimate saving grace of capitalism, I do not believe that there is an effective form of democracy, I do not enjoy living here alot of the time however much I may like my home. Why am I not being targeted?

IMO, as long as these communities are filled with law abiding, tax paying citizens then where is the issue? If a culture is so weak that it can be threatened by small communtiies exhibiting different standards then perhaps the culture is not fit to survive.

[ieatfood]

Kumar wrote: ieatfood wrote: Kumar wrote: Superfly wrote: Live and let live.

Damn.
No.

People should not sit on their hands when they have the opportunity to help society develop and grow rather than sliding away.

no evidence that american or canadian society is "sliding away"
you are just making false justifications for your hatred of foreign cultures.
How exactly do I hate foreign cultures? You need to stop making things up.

I merely recognize that not all cultures are equal. The belief that they are is a destructive force.

actually, due to globalization, all cultures will eventually become american.
so no worry.

[ieatfood]

GCWallace wrote: America and Canada are NOT melting pots where everything mixes, they are salad bowls, Tomatoes and lettuce never merge into tomattuce

If the 'old country' was so good, why did you leave? Since there were enough problems to warrant you moving to my great nation, I suggest you come up to my nation's standards, not drag mine down to your nations level.

what do you mean by "standards?"
do you think that the culture of a nation is what makes it great?
i doubt it

what makes a nation great is money--plain and simple
its the economy stupid
the culture is largely irrelevant as long as it is able to support a good economy

the problem with europe is not that they have different cultures. Indeed, we have many more different cultures in America and we have no such problems. No. The difference is in the economy. Europeans are unemployed. Americans have jobs. That's the difference.

[GCWallace]

so why, if their way of life has failed so misrably in Europe, Asia, Mexico, Cuba, Africa, should they hold so fast and true to the values that didn't work back in the old country?

[ieatfood]

GCWallace wrote: so why, if their way of life has failed so misrably in Europe, Asia, Mexico, Cuba, Africa, should they hold so fast and true to the values that didn't work back in the old country?

uh, did i not make myself clear?

the values are not the issue--its not like African-American values are inferior to white values--actually, that's kinda racist

no

values and culture are irrelevant

its the economy, not the culture that's important