Political Crossfire Forums

[ToonArmyIsComing]

It always irritates me to see ethnic neighborhoods where the majority of the people in a neighborhood are from one part of the world or from one ethnicity. For example, I was in Toronto and there is the China town, little Tehran, little Italy, little Seoul, Greek Town, Jewish neighborhood, little somalia, etc etc ... When you walk in these places, I see people living as if they are in another country. They can't even speak English nor have any interest in interacting with "foreigners".

I don't understand to be honest. Why do people move to a new country if they just want to live as if they were living in their old country? Do you think there should be any laws about these places such as requiring these people to learn English?


I found an interesting site about the ethnic make up:

http://www.walkingaround.com/

[Kumar]

It's natural for new immigrants to gravitate towards areas where there are a large number of people who share, for example, their language. The problem with this is that it encourages balkanization and reduces incentive to effectively integrate into the host society. There should be more programs to facilitate integration and the acceptance of ethnic enclaves (eg. "Chinatown") needs to end.

[Demonic Spoon]

Integration? why? How in the hell does someone wearing different clothing or eating different foods affect you in any way?

[Kumar]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Integration? why? How in the hell does someone wearing different clothing or eating different foods affect you in any way?
I don't care if they eat different foods. That's not the point at all. The issue is people who decide to come to a new country and refuse to adapt to its social values. Instead of identifying with the country itself and its people, they bind more closely to those of the same ethnic background, something which encourages factions in society and contributes to instability. When you immigrate to a new country, the loyalty is to that country. If you have contempt for its values and/or its people, or if you are more loyal to your original country and its people, then stay away.

The way things stand now, immigration practices need to be significantly reformed.

[foadi]

i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state.

[foadi]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Integration? why? How in the hell does someone wearing different clothing or eating different foods affect you in any way?
kumar is right, it could eventually affect you and does indeed encourage balkanization.

[TwinkieDP]

foadi wrote: i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state. How would u do that??

[foadi]

TwinkieDP wrote: foadi wrote: i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state. How would u do that??
Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong will show the path.

[Mare Tranquillity]

Demonic Spoon wrote: Integration? why? How in the hell does someone wearing different clothing or eating different foods affect you in any way?

It leads to Balkanization in many instances, which includes turf battles arising at the boundaries of these ethnic enclaves as they gradually expand and come into contact with other expanding enclaves. Just like the Balkans but on a somewhat smaller scale.

[LostSoul3412]

What's wrong with people choosing to live where it is most comfortable for them?

[Kumar]

LostSoul3412 wrote: What's wrong with people choosing to live where it is most comfortable for them?
They can live wherever they want. The problem arises when it leads to a refusal to integrate. I live in Toronto, where there is a very large immigrant population. Some groups of immigrants just don't adapt as well to their new country as others, and this is in part because they live in large neighbourhoods that have come to be thoroughly dominated by a particular ethnic group. They see themselves as separate from those around them and often even look down upon white Canadians and other ethnic groups. It's almost like tribalism.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Mare Tranquillity wrote: It leads to Balkanization in many instances, which includes turf battles arising at the boundaries of these ethnic enclaves as they gradually expand and come into contact with other expanding enclaves. Just like the Balkans but on a somewhat smaller scale.

Kumar wrote: They can live wherever they want. The problem arises when it leads to a refusal to integrate. I live in Toronto, where there is a very large immigrant population. Some groups of immigrants just don't adapt as well to their new country as others, and this is in part because they live in large neighbourhoods that have come to be thoroughly dominated by a particular ethnic group. They see themselves as separate from those around them and often even look down upon white Canadians and other ethnic groups. It's almost like tribalism.

If I may add to these two posts, another problem that arises from this phenomenon is that politics will become an ethnic based politics, which will divide the country and make it dysfunctional at times.

[Demonic Spoon]

Quote:
I don't care if they eat different foods. That's not the point at all. The issue is people who decide to come to a new country and refuse to adapt to its social values. Instead of identifying with the country itself and its people, they bind more closely to those of the same ethnic background, something which encourages factions in society and contributes to instability. When you immigrate to a new country, the loyalty is to that country. If you have contempt for its values and/or its people, or if you are more loyal to your original country and its people, then stay away.

The way things stand now, immigration practices need to be significantly reformed.

In which case the issue is ignorance, not refusal to integrate.

[foadi]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Mare Tranquillity wrote: It leads to Balkanization in many instances, which includes turf battles arising at the boundaries of these ethnic enclaves as they gradually expand and come into contact with other expanding enclaves. Just like the Balkans but on a somewhat smaller scale.

Kumar wrote: They can live wherever they want. The problem arises when it leads to a refusal to integrate. I live in Toronto, where there is a very large immigrant population. Some groups of immigrants just don't adapt as well to their new country as others, and this is in part because they live in large neighbourhoods that have come to be thoroughly dominated by a particular ethnic group. They see themselves as separate from those around them and often even look down upon white Canadians and other ethnic groups. It's almost like tribalism.

If I may add to these two posts, another problem that arises from this phenomenon is that politics will become an ethnic based politics, which will divide the country and make it dysfunctional at times.
this is the natural order. globalization has sparked the dawn of a new era. this era will be marked by crumbling empires and tribalization. the final result will be a shattered war-torn society composed of micronations plagued with massive wealth inequality. i for one look forward to this future. it cant come soon enough. the nation states of the world need to be destroyed. your time is running out.

[ToonArmyIsComing]

foadi wrote: this is the natural order. globalization has sparked the dawn of a new era. this era will be marked by crumbling empires and tribalization. the final result will be a shattered war-torn society composed of micronations plagued with massive wealth inequality. i for one look forward to this future. it cant come soon enough. the nation states of the world need to be destroyed. your time is running out.

Yes, globalization is making people cling onto their cultural and ethnic ties a lot more and they are now the most important part of their identity.

I think we are witnessing the tribalization in places like France with the 2005 riots. It is disconcerting to witness it to be honest.

However, unlike you I am not looking forward to this future.

[ieatfood]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: It always irritates me to see ethnic neighborhoods where the majority of the people in a neighborhood are from one part of the world or from one ethnicity. For example, I was in Toronto and there is the China town, little Tehran, little Italy, little Seoul, Greek Town, Jewish neighborhood, little somalia, etc etc ... When you walk in these places, I see people living as if they are in another country. They can't even speak English nor have any interest in interacting with "foreigners".

I don't understand to be honest. Why do people move to a new country if they just want to live as if they were living in their old country? Do you think there should be any laws about these places such as requiring these people to learn English?


I found an interesting site about the ethnic make up:

http://www.walkingaround.com/

are you kidding?
that's what makes a city cool--the fact that you have so many different places you can go and enjoy cultures from around the world

embrace the fact that you can get a little bit of china, of italy, of israel, of greece, without ever getting on a plane. Diversity makes a city worth living in. Who the hell wants to see the same culture everywhere?? Boring as hell.

I hate to break it to you, but Canada is a fairly boring country as it is. Ethnic diversity is one the elements that might help break the boredom. If you like boring places, just look at all the Canadian land around Toronto. It's all ethnically the same boring white culture. I guess that's how you like it.

[Kumar]

ieatfood wrote: I hate to break it to you, but Canada is a fairly boring country as it is. Ethnic diversity is one the elements that might help break the boredom. If you like boring places, just look at all the Canadian land around Toronto. It's all ethnically the same boring white culture. I guess that's how you like it.
That's nonsense. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with excitement and it creates more problems than it solves.

[Kumar]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: foadi wrote: this is the natural order. globalization has sparked the dawn of a new era. this era will be marked by crumbling empires and tribalization. the final result will be a shattered war-torn society composed of micronations plagued with massive wealth inequality. i for one look forward to this future. it cant come soon enough. the nation states of the world need to be destroyed. your time is running out.

Yes, globalization is making people cling onto their cultural and ethnic ties a lot more and they are now the most important part of their identity.

I think we are witnessing the tribalization in places like France with the 2005 riots. It is disconcerting to witness it to be honest.

However, unlike you I am not looking forward to this future.
The problem is that people have become afraid to speak out against multiculturalism for fear of being labelled racist. There are very real problems that exist due to large influxes of immigrants in various Western countries that must be solved. The present failure of mainstream parties in power is partly to blame for the rise of extremist groups vowing to deal with this neglected problem in their own way.

[eynon]

foadi wrote: i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state.

Toronto? 1000 city-states? 4,558,800/1000........that's like 4,500 citizens in each little state.....that could barley support a decent rec-center.

btw.........but ethnic neighborhoods have great food!

[foadi]

eynon wrote: foadi wrote: i fully support these communities and hope they break off into their own little micronations. Toronto needs to be broken up into 1,000+ city-state.

Toronto? 1000 city-states? 4,558,800/1000........that's like 4,500 citizens in each little state.....that could barley support a decent rec-center.
burbclaves and franchice states.