Political Crossfire Forums

Ragnar Danneskjold · Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 2628 Location: Mulligan's Valley

No, in fact, I would like to trade more liberty for less security.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

Yes, and I stand behind a sign saying exactly that down by the off ramp, and I get a lot more money than the guy whose sign says will work for food.

Ragnar Danneskjold · Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 2628 Location: Mulligan's Valley

mr.snruB wrote: Ozzone wrote: Define "essential" liberties.

I would say any that your constitution or bill of rights grants you

So none? The constitution does not grant a thing, we have rights inherent in us. They do not need to be granted.

Kumar · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 15036 Location: Zürich

mr.snruB wrote: Kumar wrote: It depends on the circumstances.

What circumstances, and why?
In the event of an invasion, for example. It's an extreme example, but it does show how there are cases where some liberties are pushed aside temporarily due to an issue of greater importance. This was certainly the case during WWII.

The truth of the matter is that every one of us does forego some liberty in order to attain security and other luxuries. That is the nature of government. The vast majority of people prefer this system as opposed to the so-called "absolute liberty" advocated by some (specifically anarchists), which would take us back to a primitive era.

mr.snruB · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 7136 Location: Ontario, Canada

Ragnar Danneskjold wrote: mr.snruB wrote: Ozzone wrote: Define "essential" liberties.

I would say any that your constitution or bill of rights grants you

So none? The constitution does not grant a thing, we have rights inherent in us. They do not need to be granted.

Well then those. I'm not as familiar with the American system. Sorry about that

Patriarch · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 289

TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

mr.snruB · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 7136 Location: Ontario, Canada

Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Looks like you're the only one who voted to give up your liberties, not liberals

Ozzone · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject:

Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

I was thinking the same thing when I read his statement. The socialits have brainwashed people into thinking that it's the government that has made their lives safer and more protected with the multitude of socialistic programs they have pushed.

Right-wingers pale in comparison to left-wingers when it comes to increasing government intervention in our lives.

callous · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Except that you support an administration that is doing exactly that.

So do you understand what a liberal is?

Ozzone · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

mr.snruB wrote: Ozzone wrote: Define "essential" liberties.

I would say any that your constitution or bill of rights grants you

You mean like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I have yet to ever see the government take that away from me.

Of course, I lose a liberty when I apply for a job and not get hired because an employer needs to fill a "minority" quota with a much less qualified person.

Of course, I lose a liberty when I can't get a scholarship, because I'm the wrong color, over someone that has lower grades than me.

I could go on with more examples, but I don't want to feel negative about my pursuit of happiness.

Patriarch · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 289

mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Looks like you're the only one who voted to give up your liberties, not liberals

Actually I voted yes because your poll was stupid and pointless.

Patriarch · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 289

callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Except that you support an administration that is doing exactly that.

So do you understand what a liberal is?

Oh really? I wasn't aware GW was pushing bigger taxes, more welfare, bigger govt, and more intervention into businesses, and more socialism.

Oh wait he hasn't been. You were probably thinking of John Kerry the democrats nominee in '04. But no, he lost by the way.

Yes I am aware of what liberalism means. Real question is are you?

callous · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject:

Patriarch wrote: callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Except that you support an administration that is doing exactly that.

So do you understand what a liberal is?

Oh really? I wasn't aware GW was pushing bigger taxes, more welfare, bigger govt, and more intervention into businesses, and more socialism.

Oh wait he hasn't been. You were probably thinking of John Kerry the democrats nominee in '04. But no, he lost by the way.

Yes I am aware of what liberalism means. Real question is are you?

Bigger government? = Patriot Act

Intervention into business? = CAFTA

Welfare has nothing to do with this thread, and was thrown in for visual effect.

Socialism? = Centralizing warmaking powers and intelligence in the president.

There you have it, your very own political education as it applies to current events.

Ozzone · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject:

You know what's funny? The only thing I've seen different about the current administration's "intervention" in my life is at the airport. It takes me a little longer getting on a plane, I may have to take my shoes off, and I can't carry a suitcase full of liquids.

That's it. Everything else is the same. Seems the government did a good job of minimizing the impact on my liberty in reaction to a serious national threat.

Oh, I know that those phone calls I might make to Tehran and Islamabad, in Farsi, might get intercepted but then I'll be damned careful not to say the words nuclear and allah and other stuff like that.

mr.snruB · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 7136 Location: Ontario, Canada

Patriarch wrote: mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Looks like you're the only one who voted to give up your liberties, not liberals

Actually I voted yes because your poll was stupid and pointless.

Why is that?

Patriarch · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 289

callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Except that you support an administration that is doing exactly that.

So do you understand what a liberal is?

Oh really? I wasn't aware GW was pushing bigger taxes, more welfare, bigger govt, and more intervention into businesses, and more socialism.

Oh wait he hasn't been. You were probably thinking of John Kerry the democrats nominee in '04. But no, he lost by the way.

Yes I am aware of what liberalism means. Real question is are you?

Bigger government? = Patriot Act

Intervention into business? = CAFTA

Welfare has nothing to do with this thread, and was thrown in for visual effect.

Socialism? = Centralizing warmaking powers and intelligence in the president.

There you have it, your very own political education as it applies to current events.

That was a flame thread. All opionion with no facts.

Patriot act does not make the government bigger. Can you prove that? It does however protect against terror attacks. By the way have you even read the patriot act or have you just heard about how bad it is from the left? I would guess the latter.

Cafta? How about NAFTA which was architect by who? BILLy Clinton.

Pinhead wrote: Socialism? = Centralizing warmaking powers and intelligence in the president.

Actually warmaking powers have Always been to the president, that's not a new crazy GW take over thing, I know you would like to think so. And intelligence is not a presidential power, its a separate organization called the CIA perhaps you have heard. And no GW did not "take that over," as well.

And yes welfare is a very socialistic idea. It is very relevant.

Any more smart ones?

The dane · Joined: 26 Sep 2006 Posts: 3895

Think the point of this poll is to point out dishonesty on the part of some, more specifically anyone who vote no here yet support the patriot act or the military commissions act.

Patriarch · Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 289

mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Looks like you're the only one who voted to give up your liberties, not liberals

Actually I voted yes because your poll was stupid and pointless.

Why is that?

Because like you said it was a Hypothetical and had no real life applications.

Why not make a poll about if aliens landed and took over Canada would that be bad?

callous · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject:

Patriarch wrote: callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: callous wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Except that you support an administration that is doing exactly that.

So do you understand what a liberal is?

Oh really? I wasn't aware GW was pushing bigger taxes, more welfare, bigger govt, and more intervention into businesses, and more socialism.

Oh wait he hasn't been. You were probably thinking of John Kerry the democrats nominee in '04. But no, he lost by the way.

Yes I am aware of what liberalism means. Real question is are you?

Bigger government? = Patriot Act

Intervention into business? = CAFTA

Welfare has nothing to do with this thread, and was thrown in for visual effect.

Socialism? = Centralizing warmaking powers and intelligence in the president.

There you have it, your very own political education as it applies to current events.

That was a flame thread. All opionion with no facts.

Patriot act does not make the government bigger. Can you prove that? It does however protect against terror attacks. By the way have you even read the patriot act or have you just heard about how bad it is from the left? I would guess the latter.

Cafta? How about NAFTA which was architect by who? BILLy Clinton.

Pinhead wrote: Socialism? = Centralizing warmaking powers and intelligence in the president.

Actually warmaking powers have Always been to the president, that's not a new crazy GW take over thing, I know you would like to think so. And intelligence is not a presidential power, its a separate organization called the CIA perhaps you have heard. And no GW did not "take that over," as well.

And yes welfare is a very socialistic idea. It is very relevant.

Any more smart ones?

The patriot act doesn't make government bigger? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Homeland security? 30 some-odd executive orders?

and your using clinton, an equally conservative politician to escape the argument?

Good god man, quit while your behind.

mr.snruB · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 7136 Location: Ontario, Canada

Patriarch wrote: mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: mr.snruB wrote: Patriarch wrote: TomPaine wrote: I answered "no", but then again, I'm not a right-wing authoritarian who secretly wants the government to be run by a dictatorship so they can feel safe and protected.

Actually the last time I checked it was the Libs who want MORE government More regulations More socialism More Taxes.

Don't pull that crap on me it's the Libs who want Authoritarianism and want the govt to run their lives and raise their kids.

Looks like you're the only one who voted to give up your liberties, not liberals

Actually I voted yes because your poll was stupid and pointless.

Why is that?

Because like you said it was a Hypothetical and had no real life applications.

Why not make a poll about if aliens landed and took over Canada would that be bad?

Because this is dealing with how much people value their liberty and, if they were willing to give it up, what for?