Political Crossfire Forums

[JLB]

Centrist wrote: JLB wrote: Centrist wrote: JLB wrote: callous wrote: Klondikekat wrote: Everyone wants to make the most out of what they can for themselves. Our system is just conducive for lobbyists and they're making the most of it.

And the only problem with that is the exact reason it is conducive to profitability in lobbying is also the reason the American public has about 10 percent of the representation in the US government that it should have.

Lobbyists represent the American people, so you are against free speech.

And here I thought the people we elected to Congress were supposed to represent the American people.


They do, and lobbyists represent the people's views to the Congress, so that our views can be heard.

I don't have a problem with lobbyists as a concept, I have a problem with lobbyists as a reality. It's not the lobbying I object to, it's the exchange of money and favors and perks for endorsement. The ONLY currency that lobbyists should be able to deal in is constituent voting. "This is our issue. This is what we'd like you to do about it. This is why. If you don't, then we'll tell the people we represent what your response was and suggest to them that they not vote for you the next time around." End of story.

The Supreme Court has ruled that donations are a form of free speech.

[callous]

[quote="JLB"][quote="callous"][quote="JLB"] callous wrote: JLB wrote: callous wrote: JLB wrote: callous wrote: Klondikekat wrote: Everyone wants to make the most out of what they can for themselves. Our system is just conducive for lobbyists and they're making the most of it.

And the only problem with that is the exact reason it is conducive to profitability in lobbying is also the reason the American public has about 10 percent of the representation in the US government that it should have.

Lobbyists represent the American people, so you are against free speech.

Quote: lobbyists represent corporate interests, corporate interests support the profitability of corporations, and corporations pay for lobbyists with shareholder livelyhoods.

Good, as Corporations have the same rights to free speech as others, as a Corporation is made up entirely of people.


Quote: Lobbyists do not in any way, shape, or form, represent the people.

So does the ACLU have a lobbyist?

Wasn't Ralph Nader a lobbyist?

Do unions have lobbyists?



Quote: But thanks for playing. :wink:

I love to play when I know I'm a winner even before I click on your thread. 8:)

Quote: 1. This thread has nothing to do with non profit organizations, and no, you are not allowed to go off topic.

So now only non profit organizations have freedom of speech in your new country?



Quote: 2. I have never voted for Ralph Nader or supported him in any way. He's a fruit loop.

He lobbied the country for automobile safety, and his voice was heard. mI guess you don't like seat belts and safety glass in your cars, eh?

Quote: 3. Unions are blatant representations of individual citizens needs and desires.

So is the NRA, and so is the lobbyist for Boeing, who represents thousands of workers and shareholders, all who have the freedom to be heard.

Quote: Work on your defenses a bit. :lol:

My defense hasn't taken the field yet, as you can't seem to keep my offense off the field.

So tell us why you are against free speech for people.... 8:)

Quote: Do you still not understand the premise of the thread? You many want to go back and re-read the statement, as your comments have nothing whatsoever to do with it. :wink: I just want to help you become a better debater.

Your premise is you are against free speech.

Next? 8:)


Quote: You still seem to be stuck on attempting to debate non profit organizations, and they aren't part of the thread. Please focus a bit harder.

I never mentioned non profits, sport. That was you, trying to spin away from truth.

Quote: And I completely killed your attempt to pin me as against free speech in my first response to you, as you remember, I showed you the light in how that lobbyists work for corporations, not individuals.


Who owns Corporations?

I'll give you a hint:

I_di_idu_ls

Fill in the blanks. 8:)



Quote: Please let me know how I can help you understand further.

Nothing, as you haven't a clue to give away. 8:)

Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

[Ozzone]

Tennouheika wrote: Yes, that is what I was saying when I said that in theory, lobbyists represent the American People.
However, as you know, it is all about money.

And large corporate lobbies have more money and thus influence than the environmental groups or groups for the poor.

Just think of who has more money, and then you see who has more influence.

Class envy? I'm sorry, but that appears to be your argument. You appear to dislike groups that have money vs. those that don't.

Don't fret. The enviromental groups and labor groups and other non-profit groups have something a lot more powerful than money...

The media.

Let a corporation make a statement condemning an action by a elected official and watch how fast that doesn't make the front page, much less making the news at all.

But let a non-profit organization make a statement and the media jumps all over it salivating who can make a bigger font on the front page.

Show me a single article about any corporation that criticized a senator or congressman because of his/her position on a major issue and I'll easily show you a dozen from non-profit organizations (like ACLU, AARP, NAACP, PeTA, take your pick).

I do not like any lobbyist that uses money to bribe officials or causes them to do unethical things, but I have no class envy that because one group has more money to spend than another makes it wrong somehow.

That is the point of this thread. To convince everyone that class envy applies even to lobbyists. Since I'm not a socialist, I don't agree with the OP.

[Ozzone]

callous wrote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders = INDIVIDUALS that own shares of stock of a company.

Board of Directors = a group of INDIVIDUALS that supervise the corporation affairs.

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

How about learning what terms are so you don't look foolish.

[JLB]

JLB wrote:


Who owns Corporations?

I'll give you a hint:

I_di_idu_ls

Fill in the blanks. 8:)



Quote: Please let me know how I can help you understand further.

Nothing, as you haven't a clue to give away. 8:)

callous wrote: Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

I doubt the leftist can teach the 20 year investment advisor about what a corporation is, so this should be funny. 8:)

Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders are individuals, aren't they?

The board of directors is hired by a vote of the shareholders.

Quote: See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

You cleared up that you haven't the first clue about corporations, but we knew that before this thread. :lol:

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

I'll let you know when I need to assemble a bong, or something up your alley. :lol:

Leave the real thinking to those who are better qualified, mmmkay? 8:)

[callous]

Ozzone wrote: callous wrote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders = INDIVIDUALS that own shares of stock of a company.

Board of Directors = a group of INDIVIDUALS that supervise the corporation affairs.

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

How about learning what terms are so you don't look foolish.

Please ozzone, make sure you understand the conversation before you attempt to defend someone as difficult to defend as jlb. He just asserted that a single person controls a corporation.

Now, I'd take another look at who that foolish statement might be directed towards.

:wink:

[callous]

JLB wrote: JLB wrote:


Who owns Corporations?

I'll give you a hint:

I_di_idu_ls

Fill in the blanks. 8:)



Quote: Please let me know how I can help you understand further.

Nothing, as you haven't a clue to give away. 8:)

callous wrote: Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

I doubt the leftist can teach the 20 year investment advisor about what a corporation is, so this should be funny. 8:)

Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders are individuals, aren't they?

The board of directors is hired by a vote of the shareholders.

Quote: See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

You cleared up that you haven't the first clue about corporations, but we knew that before this thread. :lol:

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

I'll let you know when I need to assemble a bong, or something up your alley. :lol:

Leave the real thinking to those who are better qualified, mmmkay? 8:)

hey you just attempted to assert that a corporation is controlled by a single person.

I'm not sure what your thing about the individuals working for their own paychecks is about, but Ill leave that to you to correct.

Do you understand what a corporation is? Its surprising that your supposed 20 years of experience doesn't cover this sort of thing.

[JLB]

callous wrote:
Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.


Corporationcor‧po‧ra‧tion  /ˌkɔrpəˈreɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kawr-puh-rey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members.
2. (initial capital letter) the group of principal officials of a borough or other municipal division in England.
3. any group of persons united or regarded as united in one body.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corporation


Anything else you need schooling on, Callous?

[JLB]

[quote="callous"] JLB wrote: JLB wrote:


Who owns Corporations?

I'll give you a hint:

I_di_idu_ls

Fill in the blanks. 8:)



Quote: Please let me know how I can help you understand further.

Nothing, as you haven't a clue to give away. 8:)

callous wrote: Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

I doubt the leftist can teach the 20 year investment advisor about what a corporation is, so this should be funny. 8:)

Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders are individuals, aren't they?

The board of directors is hired by a vote of the shareholders.

Quote: See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

You cleared up that you haven't the first clue about corporations, but we knew that before this thread. :lol:

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

I'll let you know when I need to assemble a bong, or something up your alley. :lol:

Leave the real thinking to those who are better qualified, mmmkay? 8:)

Quote: hey you just attempted to assert that a corporation is controlled by a single person.

Do you see the "s" on the end of this word?

shareholders

Quote: I'm not sure what your thing about the individuals working for their own paychecks is about, but Ill leave that to you to correct.

Do you understand what a corporation is? Its surprising that your supposed 20 years of experience doesn't cover this sort of thing.

Check your vision. You make need corrective surgery. 8:)

[JLB]

I'm out to the drag races.

I'll beat on Callsous some more, if he still dares show his face. :lol:

[callous]

JLB wrote: callous wrote:
Ohhh ok so what you don't understand is what a corporation is.

I can help you there !!! :wink:

A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

See, nothing about an individual controlling the whole thing. I'm glad i could clear that up for you.

Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.


Corporationcor‧po‧ra‧tion  /ˌkɔrpəˈreɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kawr-puh-rey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members.
2. (initial capital letter) the group of principal officials of a borough or other municipal division in England.
3. any group of persons united or regarded as united in one body.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corporation


Anything else you need schooling on, Callous?

So you're going to beat me in debate by echoing my argument?

I've never seen that style of debate before !!!!! Truly revolutionary.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Had you been me, and had my argument, you very well may have schooled me,....but alas, your the one attempting to establish that lobbyists work for a single leader of a corporation...... so unfortunately its you who is getting schooled.

[Heinz]

He said INDIVIDUALS which is plural.

He said many people control corporations.

What is untrue about this statement?

Not a damn thing.

Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Typical socialist response. Always assume that manipulation is part of every businesses' process.

Trying to teach capitalism to a socialist is almost always a challenge.

[callous]

JLB wrote: I'm out to the drag races.

I'll beat on Callsous some more, if he still dares show his face. :lol:

Yeah my ankles are taking a beating !!! So much so that I may have to step off of your political neck at some point.

[Ozzone]

callous wrote: Ozzone wrote: callous wrote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Shareholders = INDIVIDUALS that own shares of stock of a company.

Board of Directors = a group of INDIVIDUALS that supervise the corporation affairs.

Quote: Just let me know what else I can do for your continuing education.

How about learning what terms are so you don't look foolish.

Please ozzone, make sure you understand the conversation before you attempt to defend someone as difficult to defend as jlb. He just asserted that a single person controls a corporation.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

How about you make sure you understand the plural form of a noun before you attempt to debate someone that passed English like me.

Quote: Now, I'd take another look at who that foolish statement might be directed towards.

I did, and it points right back at you.

[Heinz]

Quote: but alas, your the one attempting to establish that lobbyists work for a single leader of a corporation

NO...head said that the lobbyist represents the INDIVIDUALS who run the company.

They use one to represent the many.

Please read.

[callous]

Heinz wrote: Quote: but alas, your the one attempting to establish that lobbyists work for a single leader of a corporation

NO...head said that the lobbyist represents the INDIVIDUALS who run the company.

They use one to represent the many.

Please read.

No, thats what he would have liked to have said, in a thread that had anything to do with the isolated individuals that work for the isolated components of a corporation, not the political aims of the corporation or its agenda.


Don't make me get started on you too.

[Ozzone]

Heinz wrote: Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Typical socialist response. Always assume that manipulation is part of every businesses' process.

Trying to teach capitalism to a socialist is almost always a challenge.

He uses the word "manipulate" because it sounds Draconian and illicits an emotional response from liberals/socialists that it's bad.

I wouldn't say teaching them capitalism is a challenge, it's an impossibility because they hate people that have climbed the ladder to success.

[callous]

Ozzone wrote: Heinz wrote: Quote: A corporation is owned by shareholders and manipulated by a board of directors.

Typical socialist response. Always assume that manipulation is part of every businesses' process.

Trying to teach capitalism to a socialist is almost always a challenge.

He uses the word "manipulate" because it sounds Draconian and illicits an emotional response from liberals/socialists that it's bad.

I wouldn't say teaching them capitalism is a challenge, it's an impossibility because they hate people that have climbed the ladder to success.

I understand you don't want to address me directly with that comment, because It'd be shot down immediately. I offer a few suggestions however.

Don't attempt to create fake identities for my comments without asking me to clarify, it makes you look rather escapist. People who have climbed the ladder of success should have more power to them. People who are using the special benefits of being a corporation to steal power away from American citizens should be imprisoned.

Now that you are armed with that distinction, feel empowered to debate me directly without being unfairly attacked.

[Heinz]

Quote: No, thats what he would have liked to have said, in a thread that had anything to do with the isolated individuals that work for the isolated components of a corporation, not the political aims of the corporation or its agenda.

Pretty much you already have your mind made up. You're a socialist and you think that corporations are evil and have bad intentions. Lobbyist represent the individuals (shareholders) who run a corporation. They, lobbyist, are their voice in Washington.

You hate free speech for the rich.

Quote: Don't make me get started on you too.

Start on what? That you've proven in 2 threads that you can't read.

Or are you going to attempt to say I know nothing about the military again? I know that hurt for you. I can see the tears now.

Quote: People who are using the special benefits of being a corporation to steal power away from American citizens should be imprisoned

Nice to see how you feel about success.

[Ozzone]

My god. This is one of the best spins yet.

callous wrote: No, thats what he would have liked to have said,

Now you know what he would have "liked" to have said? Unlike us that knows exactly what he said?

Quote: in a thread that had anything to do with the isolated individuals that work for the isolated components of a corporation,

Where in the hell did the word "isolated" come in? Please show me where that got warped in?

Quote: not the political aims of the corporation or its agenda.

The political aims of the corporation or it's agenda are enacted by the Board of Directors, which serve the interests of the Shareholders via the use of a lobbyist or lobbyists.

You really spun the hell out of that.

Quote: Don't make me get started on you too.

Get started? You are knee-deep in rhetoric now it's funny. If Heinz can't own you on this, I certainly can.