Political Crossfire Forums

[Clarino]

Every day for the past two weeks I've been getting up early (7:00am, very early for a musician) to go into chesterfield. Every day I watch the news for the weather forecast and every day they have started with Scotland, continued to talk about Scotland as they pan down over the north of England, then given the forecast for the south east, the south west, Wales and Northern Ireland. What bloody use is that to me?!

The thing that has prompted this post is that I just saw a news article online which says we are in for a spectacular meteor shower, providing the weather allows. But OH NO! the weather forecast shows that there will probably be heavy cloud covering most of SOUTHERN ENGLAND!

So £*&%ing what?! I want to know whether I will be able to see it!!!!!

It's like England ends at Watford Gap services and there's avortex which takes people directly to Scotland bypassing the barren wastelands in between!

Also, why are there never any Northerners on TV who are not portrayed as being stupid? Some of the brightest people I've ever met live up here, and the stupidest people I have ever met I met in Sussex!


I'm sick of it.

[/rant]



Sorry, had to vent.

[DSwain]

Watch the local newscast in that case - the national weather is next to useless other than as a means to observe the British neurosis about meteorology ("Light showers giving way to dry patches with breezes but with the chance of snow later" - talk about covering all your bases; The Day Today did the best national weather forecasts)

As for the depiction of northerners on TV - what are you watching? The only place I can think of where British geography plays any great part is the soap operas - and they're filled with morons, regardless of where they're set.

And anyway, regarding the smarts of the people of Chesterfield - remind me - who was their MP for all those years?!
:wink:

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote: The Day Today did the best national weather forecasts

I don't know, I think Jeremy Paxman's weather forecasts on Newsnight were best: "It's April! What do you expect?!"

DSwain wrote: As for the depiction of northerners on TV - what are you watching? The only place I can think of where British geography plays any great part is the soap operas - and they're filled with morons, regardless of where they're set.

That's the problem. They are more rare than ethnic minorities were fifty years ago. The of the few one could name only Christopher Ecclestone is deemed at all intelligent, and he's a bit wierd in any case. Jeremy Clarkson, though born in Rotherham has no trace of a northern accent anymore. John Prescott. Need I say more? The only respectable northerner on the BBC for years was John Peel, and he's dead.

Think back to the Commonwealth Games in Manchester. Ever see them interview a local (though the term "native" probably suits Auntie's lexicon better)? They found the dumbest person they could every time. Why couldn't they find someone who could string a sentence together? There are thousands upon thousands of us out there.


DSwain wrote: And anyway, regarding the smarts of the people of Chesterfield - remind me - who was their MP for all those years?!

:lol:

Good point, fortunately for me I don't live in that constituency. Mind you, the other local MPs in the area for the past twenty years are telling too (N.E.Derbyshire and Bolsover!) but I never voted for them! 8:)

[DSwain]

Clarino - I think you might be missing my point about regionalism and soap operas. The only bits of popular broadcasting in which regional geography is important is in soap operas. That Jeremy Clarkson is a northerner without his accent is unimportant - that he is a bloody great broadcaster who makes me (and others) laugh is what earns him his salary.

As for your complaint about the Commonwealth Games - well, I'd need to see the excerpts to which you refer; the main thing I remember about the coverage was the sport, not the filler (not trying to sneer there - I just really don't remember thick Mancs playing any large part).

Personally, I dislike the move in broadcasting towards forced regional accents over RP; Channel 4 in particular seems to delight in foisting Geordie accents onto our lugholes the likes of which I never heard when I lived in the North-East. The whole point about RP is that it is regionless - any of us can speak with RP.

I'm a northerner who has spent a lot of his life in the south and in London and one thing that the north suffers from terribly is chiponshoulderitis; get over it, northerners! It makes you sound like a bunch of moaning michaels which plays to the prejudices of certain southerners.

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote: Clarino - I think you might be missing my point about regionalism and soap operas. The only bits of popular broadcasting in which regional geography is important is in soap operas. That Jeremy Clarkson is a northerner without his accent is unimportant - that he is a bloody great broadcaster who makes me (and others) laugh is what earns him his salary.

Clarkson isn't the problem, I think he's great. My problem is that there anyone displaying any sort of northern accent seems to be banned from presenting anything on the BBC. I never watch soaps so I really don't care what goes on in them.




DSwain wrote: As for your complaint about the Commonwealth Games - well, I'd need to see the excerpts to which you refer; the main thing I remember about the coverage was the sport, not the filler (not trying to sneer there - I just really don't remember thick Mancs playing any large part).


Trust me, it was really offensive to think that the BBC wanted to portray that image of Northerners. On my more cynical days I think it was to convince people that the only reason Manchester lost two Olympic bids is that we're stupid. That way people could get behind a London bid without thinking that the IOC would never let Britain have the Olympics.


DSwain wrote: Personally, I dislike the move in broadcasting towards forced regional accents over RP; Channel 4 in particular seems to delight in foisting Geordie accents onto our lugholes the likes of which I never heard when I lived in the North-East. The whole point about RP is that it is regionless - any of us can speak with RP.

I'm not talking about forcing anything, and trust me I much prefer to hear RP than a Welsh accent, but there are no English regional accents at all. Don't you think that constitutes some sort of discrimination?




DSwain wrote: I'm a northerner who has spent a lot of his life in the south and in London and one thing that the north suffers from terribly is chiponshoulderitis; get over it, northerners! It makes you sound like a bunch of moaning michaels which plays to the prejudices of certain southerners.

Well, I'm not someone who suffers from that, but the whole thing has got to be too much. No coverage on the national weather forecast for two straight weeks is just taking the piss. The thing with the meteor shower capped it off, as if only southerners would be interested in watching!


I'm also sick of being seen by others as whinging without any reason. I refuse to accept that all northerners should be portrayed as being thick, or simply ignored as being unimportant.

How about this? I get racial abuse, but if I complain about it people just lauch at me. Try racialy abusing a black guy or an asian guy and see how long you keep your job. But because I'm white it's ok. If I complain I'm whinging. It's the same damn thing.

[DSwain]

Clarino - don't you think you're at risk here of lampooning yourself? There's a subject for discussion re the power and influence of the centre versus the regions - but some sort of conspiracy? The BBC deliberately showing Mancunians to be stupid so as to explain the losing Olympic bid? That must be why the BBC is moving a large chunk of its operations to Manchester then.....The reason Manchester lost the bid in 1996 and 2000 was that neither bid - and especially in 1996 - was that serious and the IOC could see that. The only serious bid from the UK (at the moment) will always be London. Manchester (and Edinburgh) have done great jobs at the Commonwealth Games and should be applauded for it, however.

I'm afraid that whenever you see 'voxpops' today - in whatever part of the country - I am struck at just how inarticulate are so many Brits. That's nothing to do with North vs South, everything to do with schools being politically correct and not telling children that it is not acceptable to mumble and murder the language.


No coverage on the national weather forecast for two straight weeks is just taking the piss.

Are you really sure of that? For two weeks there was no mention made whatsoever of anywhere north of Watford and south of Berwick? In which case - what on earth did the forecast talk about? Skiiing in Whistler?

Clarino - you seem a fine fellow but you do come across here as whingeing - granted, a fine English tradition. How are northerners shown as being stupid or unimportant? How do you quantify this? No presenters with northern accents? Well, on Top Gear (following the Clarkson example), the Hamster (God Bless Him) has a clear Stoke/Potteries accent. The next time you're watching BBC TV, listen to the continuity announcers (and especially on the BBC 'new' channels') - it's like you're down the pub and someone over your shoulder is saying 'Awright arr kid - now it's time for Question Time - bangin'. Speaking with RP is out of vogue in contemporary popular culture.

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote: Clarino - don't you think you're at risk here of lampooning yourself? There's a subject for discussion re the power and influence of the centre versus the regions - but some sort of conspiracy? The BBC deliberately showing Mancunians to be stupid so as to explain the losing Olympic bid?

No, that's why I qualified it. I'm not always that cynical.

But just look at what you wrote:


DSwain wrote: The reason Manchester lost the bid in 1996 and 2000 was that neither bid - and especially in 1996 - was that serious and the IOC could see that. The only serious bid from the UK (at the moment) will always be London.

Why? Why is London the only serious bid? The government (if it ever pulls its finger out of its arse) is supposed to be creating a national academy of sports in Sheffield. So why is the only serious bid London? Why weren't the Manchester bids serious? Because no-one down south got behind them and took them sriously. There was no government backing for Manchester, but as soon as London put in a bid the Prime Minister gave it his full support. Open your eyes man.


DSwain wrote: I'm afraid that whenever you see 'voxpops' today - in whatever part of the country - I am struck at just how inarticulate are so many Brits. That's nothing to do with North vs South, everything to do with schools being politically correct and not telling children that it is not acceptable to mumble and murder the language.

I agree, and it's disgusting, but when was the last time you heard an articulate northener on TV? We do exist, but you only ever see the northern equivalent of a cockney chav.


DSwain wrote: No coverage on the national weather forecast for two straight weeks is just taking the piss.

Are you really sure of that? For two weeks there was no mention made whatsoever of anywhere north of Watford and south of Berwick? In which case - what on earth did the forecast talk about? Skiiing in Whistler?

Honestly, I described it in the OP. They start with Scotland, and continue to talk about Scotland as they pan past Northern England. Then it's London->South West->Wales->Northern Ireland. Same format every day.

DSwain wrote: Clarino - you seem a fine fellow but you do come across here as whingeing - granted, a fine English tradition. How are northerners shown as being stupid or unimportant? How do you quantify this? No presenters with northern accents? Well, on Top Gear (following the Clarkson example), the Hamster (God Bless Him) has a clear Stoke/Potteries accent.

Hamster? Northern? When was the last time you were up here mate? Now I like Richard Hammond, and hope he recovers well enough for Jeremy and James to rip him mercilessly about the crash but to suggest he's northern is preposterous. If he's from stoke, I'm George Bush.

DSwain wrote:
The next time you're watching BBC TV, listen to the continuity announcers (and especially on the BBC 'new' channels') - it's like you're down the pub and someone over your shoulder is saying 'Awright arr kid - now it's time for Question Time - bangin'. Speaking with RP is out of vogue in contemporary popular culture.

I don't know what parallel universe's version of auntie you recieve, but they aren't broadcasting it up here.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they'd just hire one news presenter who came from Look North. Or at least show some northerners speaking as we normally do, ie clearly, articulatly and about important subjects. Or if they'd just tell me what the damn weather is going to be when I leave the house! I just never see it.

[DSwain]

Clarino

London is the only serious bid as it's the only truly world class city we have; it's one of the world's great 'Alpha' cities. I am from Manchester but I realise that in sheer scale, the Olympics would overwhelm a city the size of Manchester; simply insufficient infrastructure of all varieties for an event the size of the Olympics without MASSIVE spending.

when was the last time you heard an articulate northener on TV? We do exist, but you only ever see the northern equivalent of a cockney chav.

Well right back at you - when was the last time you heard an articulate person with an Estuary English accent on TV? Who wasn't being depicted as 'chav scum'? The point here is that I have no interest in seeing 'normal' people on TV - I see enough 'normal' people in my day to day life. On TV I want to see interesting and extraordinary people - not little arseholes who want their 15 minutes of fame in televised hairdressing school or meeting the bailiffs or singing for their supper in Manchester or in Maidstone. The only ordinary people on our TV screens is this variety of pondlife who invariably are inarticulate, no matter their home county.

I'm not going to sit down and watch the national weather reports to prove you wrong - but I simply don't believe that for the last two weeks there hasn't been ONE SINGLE WORD about northern England.

Hamster is from the Midlands and he has a Stoke accent - same accent as Nick Hancock, though Hancock's is a little more pronounced. Next time you're watching Top Gear, listen to Hamster and then listen to James May and then say with a straight face that Hamster doesn't have a northern accent.

I don't know which TV you're watching, but there are regional accents aplenty; anyway, I thought you didn't have a problem with RP? I'm a northerner and I speak with RP - does that mean I'm not a northerner? Do I have to talk like Brian Glover to qualify?

As for your exhortation to recruit a news presenter from Look North - what is this? Tokenism? Should there be a quota of northerners? And you never answered my question - if the BBC is so south-centric, then why is it moving BBC Sport, Childrens and Five Live to Manchester?

Clarino - all this whining about anti-northernism - you're not Tony Wilson are you??

[Spitfire]

DSwain:

FYI, the BBC are moving to SALFORD not Manchester. Two different cities mate and as someone who originates from Manchester I should think you appreciate the offense at getting the two mixed up. City rivalry and all that.

Also, since when has the MIDLANDS been part of Northern England???


Last point: I don't think the excuse that London is an 'alpha' world class city, therefore the ONLY city in the UK capable of hosting the Olympics is valid. Atlanta isn't a world class 'alpha' city, Seoul isn't a world class 'alpha' city. Many cities get the Olympics without being a world class city. Also, Manchester wouldn't hold the entire Olympics - certain events would be placed in the outlying connurbations. I think you would find that MASSIVE amounts of spending are going to be required to get London upto Olypmic standard but that wasn't used as an excuse not to put in for the bid.

When Manchester hosted the Commonwealth Games, we did a fine job. People around here were thrilled that they got the opportunity to watch world class sporting events on their doorstep (I certainly was anyway and took full advantage). We pulled it off magnificently WITHOUT the full support of the government or the national media. It seemed to Northerners that the government and national media wanted us to mess the whole thing up and they only grudgingly gave us kudos for a job well done after the fact. If we had received FULL support then the running track that was laid at the City of Manchester Stadium would have got funding to stay there - not have to be pulled up. Manchester and surrounding cities would have got the privilege of having a proper running track. It was denied to us. I also think it is worth mentioning that Paula Radcliffe said that track was the finest she had ever run on.

Anyway, I think that Manchester and the surrounding area MORE than has the infrastructure to hold the Olympics. We just need media and government support which IMHO we will NEVER get. They will always back London over Manchester.


I am also with Clarino on the weather issue. Manchester is supposed to be one of the top five cities in the UK but rarely gets a mention in national weather forecasting. I have also noticed that all other major areas of the UK gets coverage but the North gets swept under the rug so to speak. Anyone remember that new weathermap the BBC (I think) bought that made the South look huge but made Northern England and Scotland look tiny. You just have to accept that the majority of the media are focused down South, so their worldview dictates that that area is the be all and end all of the UK. Shame really considering only a few decades ago Manchester was considered the second Fleet Street of the UK.

[DSwain]

Spitfire wrote: DSwain:

FYI, the BBC are moving to SALFORD not Manchester. Two different cities mate and as someone who originates from Manchester I should think you appreciate the offense at getting the two mixed up. City rivalry and all that.

That's my mistake - I'd missed that the BBC had chosen Salford and to confuse the two cities is a heinous crime, I know! I'd thought Manchester was the sure thing on that. But, as Clarino was drawing attention to a perceived anti-northern bias, the example still stands - why is the BBC moving such a substantial chunk of its production to Salford?


Spitfire wrote:
Also, since when has the MIDLANDS been part of Northern England???

We were talking about an absence of positive role models from areas north of Watford ie outside of London and the South-East. Still, a Cumbrian friend of mine calls me a Midlander - and I call him Scottish - so it's all relative, I suppose.

Spitfire wrote:
Last point: I don't think the excuse that London is an 'alpha' world class city, therefore the ONLY city in the UK capable of hosting the Olympics is valid. Atlanta isn't a world class 'alpha' city, Seoul isn't a world class 'alpha' city. Many cities get the Olympics without being a world class city. Also, Manchester wouldn't hold the entire Olympics - certain events would be placed in the outlying connurbations. I think you would find that MASSIVE amounts of spending are going to be required to get London upto Olypmic standard but that wasn't used as an excuse not to put in for the bid.

Australia didn't push Perth, South Korea didn't try for Pusan - they went for the best equipped cities they possessed, and for most countries that is your capital. If you do possess an 'Alpha' city which acts as the shop window for your country, use that as your bid city as opposed to some misplaced idea of trying to pretend that Manchester is equal to London in terms of pull; it is not, a fine city and all that - but it's on a different scale to London. And define 'massive' - massive spending for London would by necessity be dwarved by the amounts required for a Manchester or a Lancs-Merseyside-Yorks bid.

Spitfire wrote:
When Manchester hosted the Commonwealth Games, we did a fine job. People around here were thrilled that they got the opportunity to watch world class sporting events on their doorstep (I certainly was anyway and took full advantage). We pulled it off magnificently WITHOUT the full support of the government or the national media. It seemed to Northerners that the government and national media wanted us to mess the whole thing up and they only grudgingly gave us kudos for a job well done after the fact. If we had received FULL support then the running track that was laid at the City of Manchester Stadium would have got funding to stay there - not have to be pulled up. Manchester and surrounding cities would have got the privilege of having a proper running track. It was denied to us. I also think it is worth mentioning that Paula Radcliffe said that track was the finest she had ever run on.

Yes, Manchester did an excellent job on the CW Games. But no government or media support? Why would the government and the media want you to mess up? How typically northern - I'm sorry, but it is - griping and moaning. Manchester does a great job - with lots of media coverage (I know as friends in Canada asked me to videotape tons of stuff for them as they were getting nowhere near the same level of coverage over there) - then, years later, you still gripe on about how you pulled through despite all the pratfalls set up for you. Come off it. And as for facilities being lost after the games - join the club; that's been the experience around the world and will probably occur in London if early signs are anything to go by. That's the politics of staging international sports, not of being downtrodden northerners.

Spitfire wrote:
Anyway, I think that Manchester and the surrounding area MORE than has the infrastructure to hold the Olympics. We just need media and government support which IMHO we will NEVER get. They will always back London over Manchester.

If Manchester (or another city) can start drawing in investment for a bid 20 years down the line, then there's no reason that a competent bid could not be staged in 2024 or 2028. But to compare the infrastructure in the North West with that of the South East is laughable; the one tram every six minutes over three branch lines of the Metrolink along with private bus companies clogging up Piccadilly Gardens just does not compare with public transport in London. As someone who has moved back up north, the difference in public transport is staggering. And then it's other things like numbers of hotel rooms - Manchester's hotels were chocker over the CW Games, the Olympics is an altogether bigger proposition.

Spitfire wrote:
I am also with Clarino on the weather issue. Manchester is supposed to be one of the top five cities in the UK but rarely gets a mention in national weather forecasting. I have also noticed that all other major areas of the UK gets coverage but the North gets swept under the rug so to speak. Anyone remember that new weathermap the BBC (I think) bought that made the South look huge but made Northern England and Scotland look tiny. You just have to accept that the majority of the media are focused down South, so their worldview dictates that that area is the be all and end all of the UK. Shame really considering only a few decades ago Manchester was considered the second Fleet Street of the UK.

There's no arguing with you fellows over this as I said to Clarino, I'm not going to start watching national weather forecasts to count the number of times that the north is not mentioned. What's interesting is that the weather question is emblematic of a wider problem with some northerners - that you're hard done by, that you're ignored, that you're the victim of terrible prejudice, that the media and the government are out to get you. Now that's Tony Wilson by way of Abu Hamza.

[Lucky Luke]

Clarino wrote: Every day for the past two weeks I've been getting up early (7:00am, very early for a musician) to go into chesterfield. Every day I watch the news for the weather forecast and every day they have started with Scotland, continued to talk about Scotland as they pan down over the north of England, then given the forecast for the south east, the south west, Wales and Northern Ireland. What bloody use is that to me?!

The thing that has prompted this post is that I just saw a news article online which says we are in for a spectacular meteor shower, providing the weather allows. But OH NO! the weather forecast shows that there will probably be heavy cloud covering most of SOUTHERN ENGLAND!

So £*&%ing what?! I want to know whether I will be able to see it!!!!!

It's like England ends at Watford Gap services and there's avortex which takes people directly to Scotland bypassing the barren wastelands in between!

Also, why are there never any Northerners on TV who are not portrayed as being stupid? Some of the brightest people I've ever met live up here, and the stupidest people I have ever met I met in Sussex!


I'm sick of it.

[/rant]



Sorry, had to vent.

You think you have got it bad, imaging you waking up to discover that the weather will be s**t again and worst of all that your country has shrunk overnight:



The north of the country is always meant to be you folks, I live in Aberdeen and you are likely to live closer to a french city than to Aberdeen!

:-D
:-D

[MoscowMatt]

Wow a thread about the weather!!! We Brits just love our weather conversation don't we! Curiosuly enough in Hungary it's apparently considered very boring to talk about the weather!!

Anyway never mind about parts of the country being not mentioned in the weather. How about the fact they always seem to get it wrong. They said it would chuck it down today but I look out my window and can see blue sky!! :lol:

[DSwain]

MoscowMatt wrote: Wow a thread about the weather!!! We Brits just love our weather conversation don't we! Curiosuly enough in Hungary it's apparently considered very boring to talk about the weather!!

Anyway never mind about parts of the country being not mentioned in the weather. How about the fact they always seem to get it wrong. They said it would chuck it down today but I look out my window and can see blue sky!! :lol:

That's my own preferred method of weather forecasting - looking out of the window and taking an umbrella anyway

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote: Clarino

London is the only serious bid as it's the only truly world class city we have; it's one of the world's great 'Alpha' cities. I am from Manchester but I realise that in sheer scale, the Olympics would overwhelm a city the size of Manchester; simply insufficient infrastructure of all varieties for an event the size of the Olympics without MASSIVE spending.

Have you been to London lately? It's already massively overcrowded. The infrastructure is going to need massive spending there too, to cope with the millions that will arrive for the Olympics. As for Manchester being overwhelmed, try to remember that they were half way there having hosted the Commonwealth games. Much of the sporting facilities were already completed. The spending would have been much lower in Manchester than it is going to be in London.

DSwain wrote: when was the last time you heard an articulate northener on TV? We do exist, but you only ever see the northern equivalent of a cockney chav.

Well right back at you - when was the last time you heard an articulate person with an Estuary English accent on TV? Who wasn't being depicted as 'chav scum'?

Jonathon Ross, Phil Jupitus, Andy Hamilton, Alan Davis. Need I go on? Not estury English, but people with clear Southern/London/Essex accents who are articulate and not treated as being innately stupid.


DSwain wrote: The point here is that I have no interest in seeing 'normal' people on TV - I see enough 'normal' people in my day to day life. On TV I want to see interesting and extraordinary people - not little arseholes who want their 15 minutes of fame in televised hairdressing school or meeting the bailiffs or singing for their supper in Manchester or in Maidstone. The only ordinary people on our TV screens is this variety of pondlife who invariably are inarticulate, no matter their home county.


I agree, but you can't possibly believe that those people originate exclusively in the South or Scotland or Wales can you?


DSwain wrote: I'm not going to sit down and watch the national weather reports to prove you wrong - but I simply don't believe that for the last two weeks there hasn't been ONE SINGLE WORD about northern England.


Then why are you disputing me? I have watched the weather looking for reports about somewhere within 100 miles of where I live and been unsuccessful for two bloody weeks!

DSwain wrote: Hamster is from the Midlands and he has a Stoke accent - same accent as Nick Hancock, though Hancock's is a little more pronounced. Next time you're watching Top Gear, listen to Hamster and then listen to James May and then say with a straight face that Hamster doesn't have a northern accent.

James May is posh, not southern. Just like Tony Blair. Hamster is not northern, if he is then he worked hard to rid himself of any trace of an accent, because I'm very good with accents and I can't hear one. Listen to him sat "path", "bath" or "under". Not northern at all.

DSwain wrote: I don't know which TV you're watching, but there are regional accents aplenty; anyway, I thought you didn't have a problem with RP? I'm a northerner and I speak with RP - does that mean I'm not a northerner? Do I have to talk like Brian Glover to qualify?


I don't have a problem with RP, but I find it offensive that English people have to use RP to present the national news, wheras the Scots, Welsh and Irish do not.

I'm not going to tell you you're not a Northener, but knowing you are from Manchester and hearing you speak "correctly" would certainly make me think you were pretencious. My sister does it, BTW. She (like me) was born in Wigan, raised in Sheffield and still lives here. But after three years at Exeter University she speaks using RP. How vain can one be?


DSwain wrote: As for your exhortation to recruit a news presenter from Look North - what is this? Tokenism? Should there be a quota of northerners?

No, absolutely not. I just want to know why none have ever been "promoted" to national news like Hew Wdwards or Kirsty Wark. Is that an unreasonable question?


DSwain wrote: And you never answered my question - if the BBC is so south-centric, then why is it moving BBC Sport, Childrens and Five Live to Manchester?

It's probably cheaper for them. Like outsourcing your manufacturing to a third world country. :lol: I bet it doesn't change the way people from England are expected to speak on-air though.


DSwain wrote: Clarino - all this whining about anti-northernism - you're not Tony Wilson are you??

Um, okay-brain fart. Who's Tony Wilson?

Lucky Luke wrote: You think you have got it bad, imaging you waking up to discover that the weather will be s**t again and worst of all that your country has shrunk overnight:



The north of the country is always meant to be you folks, I live in Aberdeen and you are likely to live closer to a french city than to Aberdeen!

:-D
:-D

Hey, my part of the country has been shrunk on that map. And now, using the new map they do a close up of Scotland and are still talking about it as they pan south, past the North. :lol:

Of course when I say "the North" I mean the north of England. Don't have a map to hand, but I think I live closer to Aberdeen than to France, but I wouldn't want to put money on it.

[DSwain]

Clarino wrote: Have you been to London lately? It's already massively overcrowded. The infrastructure is going to need massive spending there too, to cope with the millions that will arrive for the Olympics. As for Manchester being overwhelmed, try to remember that they were half way there having hosted the Commonwealth games. Much of the sporting facilities were already completed. The spending would have been much lower in Manchester than it is going to be in London.

Manchester would need an infrastructure from scratch - London needs improvements. Have you ever used the Metrolink? Good as far as it goes - but if you see how it fails to cope with Man Utd crowds at the weekend, you'd realise that it's simply not conceivable that it could handle the Olympics. As I said - if Manchester is serious about hosting something like the Olympics, it needs to get an infrastructure in place FIRST, then go for a bid and money to make improvements.

Clarino wrote: Jonathon Ross, Phil Jupitus, Andy Hamilton, Alan Davis. Need I go on? Not estury English, but people with clear Southern/London/Essex accents who are articulate and not treated as being innately stupid.

Which northern TV personalities are treated as being innately stupid?

Clarino wrote: I agree, but you can't possibly believe that those people originate exclusively in the South or Scotland or Wales can you?

Re reality tv - I don't get your point here, Clarino; are you saying that all reality tv shows ignore northern England? If that was the case, which I don't believe it is, I'd say that it was a good thing.

Clarino wrote: Then why are you disputing me? I have watched the weather looking for reports about somewhere within 100 miles of where I live and been unsuccessful for two bloody weeks!

I'm sorry but I really don't believe that the national weather has not mentioned ONE SINGLE WORD about northern England for two whole weeks. I don't believe that you're lying deliberately, rather that you've got yourself worked up into a northern lather (all that soft water) and all you can hear are plummy BBC types talking about clouds over East Grinsted and it being a little chilly in Oxted.


Clarino wrote: James May is posh, not southern. Just like Tony Blair. Hamster is not northern, if he is then he worked hard to rid himself of any trace of an accent, because I'm very good with accents and I can't hear one. Listen to him sat "path", "bath" or "under". Not northern at all.

Get your accent ear washed out, Clarino! The Hamster has flat vowels


Clarino wrote: I don't have a problem with RP, but I find it offensive that English people have to use RP to present the national news, wheras the Scots, Welsh and Irish do not.

I'm not going to tell you you're not a Northener, but knowing you are from Manchester and hearing you speak "correctly" would certainly make me think you were pretencious. My sister does it, BTW. She (like me) was born in Wigan, raised in Sheffield and still lives here. But after three years at Exeter University she speaks using RP. How vain can one be?

You clearly have a problem with those who speak with RP as you accuse such people of being both pretentious and vain. Pretentious and vain is someone who 'puts it on' ie, that southern pr*ck Guy Ritchie who pretends to be working class while his mum runs the Ken and Chelsea Conservative Association. Why can't people from Manchester speak with RP? For whatever reasons? Or is Coronation Street the benchmark to which I should aspire?

Clarino wrote: No, absolutely not. I just want to know why none have ever been "promoted" to national news like Hew Wdwards or Kirsty Wark. Is that an unreasonable question?

Well that isn't true. One example was the lovely Sophie Raworth - educated at the University of Manchester. newscaster in Leeds and Manchester, then network newsreader on the main TV bulletins from London. And do you not remember the late and great Brian Redhead on Radio 4? He presented "Today" with a gloriously northern accent.


Clarino wrote: It's probably cheaper for them. Like outsourcing your manufacturing to a third world country. I bet it doesn't change the way people from England are expected to speak on-air though

Oh dear - not very positive about your beloved north!

Clarino wrote: Um, okay-brain fart. Who's Tony Wilson?

You don't know 'Mr Manchester'??! I suppose he's more a man of the 80s and 90s; here's his story. When I used to work as a journalist, if you wanted a nice and lively debate about how badly done by is Manchester (and the north), Tony Wilson would always deliver the goods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Wilson

[Lucky Luke]

DSwain wrote: .............

Which northern TV personalities are treated as being innately stupid?

.............

Anyone coming from Scotland.

:-D
:-D

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote:
Manchester would need an infrastructure from scratch - London needs improvements. Have you ever used the Metrolink? Good as far as it goes - but if you see how it fails to cope with Man Utd crowds at the weekend, you'd realise that it's simply not conceivable that it could handle the Olympics. As I said - if Manchester is serious about hosting something like the Olympics, it needs to get an infrastructure in place FIRST, then go for a bid and money to make improvements.

Come off it. London's infrastructure needs improving to cope with the population of London! It will need massively overhauling in time for 2012.
With Manchester, something could be purpose-built from scratch at a fraction of the cost.

And any hope of Manchester hosting the olympics has gone out of the windoe for the next fifty years minimum. No way do the Olympics go to any country bar the US twice in half a century.



DSwain wrote: Which northern TV personalities are treated as being innately stupid?

That's the point there aren't any. Well, Jimmy Saville. And who thinks he's not stupid?




DSwain wrote: Re reality tv - I don't get your point here, Clarino; are you saying that all reality tv shows ignore northern England? If that was the case, which I don't believe it is, I'd say that it was a good thing.

I didn't think we were talking about reality TV specifically. Were you? Riality TV focuses almost exclusively on stupid people, because it is aimed at stupid people.

Quote: I'm sorry but I really don't believe that the national weather has not mentioned ONE SINGLE WORD about northern England for two whole weeks. I don't believe that you're lying deliberately, rather that you've got yourself worked up into a northern lather (all that soft water) and all you can hear are plummy BBC types talking about clouds over East Grinsted and it being a little chilly in Oxted.

Not one word? Maybe that's exagerating a little, but not much. I was watching it in the morning, naturally I want to know what the weather is going to be like that morning. When they do mention the north, it's usually talking about the temperatue overnight. The morning and early afternoon weather focuses entirely on other parts of the country. Honestly, it really does.




DSwain wrote: Get your accent ear washed out, Clarino! The Hamster has flat vowels

Sorry mate, you're just wrong on this one. He says "paath", "baath" etc.



Quote: You clearly have a problem with those who speak with RP as you accuse such people of being both pretentious and vain.

I honestly don't. I only consider it pretencious and vain if that is not how your speech developed naturally. It's pretencious and vain to put it on.

DSwain wrote: Pretentious and vain is someone who 'puts it on' ie, that southern pr*ck Guy Ritchie who pretends to be working class while his mum runs the Ken and Chelsea Conservative Association.

Absolutely, putting it on is what's pretencious.

DSwain wrote: Why can't people from Manchester speak with RP? For whatever reasons? Or is Coronation Street the benchmark to which I should aspire?

Don't be silly. Of course someone from Manchester can use RP, if that is the way they were raised. If you do it for other reasons (you don't want southerners to think you're thick, for example) then I find it pretencious or vain.



DSwain wrote: Well that isn't true. One example was the lovely Sophie Raworth - educated at the University of Manchester. newscaster in Leeds and Manchester, then network newsreader on the main TV bulletins from London. And do you not remember the late and great Brian Redhead on Radio 4? He presented "Today" with a gloriously northern accent.

I don't remember either of thoe two, to be honest. Before my time perhaps? I'm only tweny-four, but I don't remember Sophie Raworth. And the only northern accent I remember from radio 4 was John Peel.




DSwain wrote: Oh dear - not very positive about your beloved north!

Just realistic, property prices are lower up here, it's probably cheaper of the Beeb to move production up here.


Clarino wrote: Um, okay-brain fart. Who's Tony Wilson?

DSwain wrote: You don't know 'Mr Manchester'??! I suppose he's more a man of the 80s and 90s; here's his story. When I used to work as a journalist, if you wanted a nice and lively debate about how badly done by is Manchester (and the north), Tony Wilson would always deliver the goods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Wilson]
Nope, never heard of him.

[Clarino]

Lucky Luke wrote: DSwain wrote: .............

Which northern TV personalities are treated as being innately stupid?

.............

Anyone coming from Scotland.

:-D
:-D

Kirsty Wark? Stupid? I beg to differ...

[DSwain]

Clarino - I won't go over the same ground over and over again but I fear we will never agree on this issue. Just don't start planting explosive devices on the Tube.

[Clarino]

DSwain wrote: Clarino - I won't go over the same ground over and over again but I fear we will never agree on this issue. Just don't start planting explosive devices on the Tube.



Why on Earth would I do that?! I don't harbour any dislike of the South (lived there for four years). Just a bit miffed at the way they seem to regard us up north.