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Darth Tiberius
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
It is my opinion. I believe religion is a devolution of society. It leads to either the traits I mentioned or a total/partial detachment from reality or basic human feelings/actions. It is basically against human nature and logic. Churhes have regularly tried to dominate and impose themselves on politics instead of letting the people decide what they want to do with their lives and carry on living theirs. Also the fundamentalists are a major danger. Their paranoia constantly claims that the world is trying to quiet christianity whilst doing what they do to look down on non-christians. |
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The Comrade
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12039
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote:
It is my opinion. I believe religion is a devolution of society. It leads to either the traits I mentioned or a total/partial detachment from reality or basic human feelings/actions. It is basically against human nature and logic. Churhes have regularly tried to dominate and impose themselves on politics instead of letting the people decide what they want to do with their lives and carry on living theirs. Also the fundamentalists are a major danger. Their paranoia constantly claims that the world is trying to quiet christianity whilst doing what they do to look down on non-christians.
once again you generalize.
rethink your position and back it up with valid, modern facts and perhaps will have something to discuss. |
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Darth Tiberius
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
It is my opinion. I believe religion is a devolution of society. It leads to either the traits I mentioned or a total/partial detachment from reality or basic human feelings/actions. It is basically against human nature and logic. Churhes have regularly tried to dominate and impose themselves on politics instead of letting the people decide what they want to do with their lives and carry on living theirs. Also the fundamentalists are a major danger. Their paranoia constantly claims that the world is trying to quiet christianity whilst doing what they do to look down on non-christians.
once again you generalize.
rethink your position and back it up with valid, modern facts and perhaps will have something to discuss.
It is my belief and not generalisation. Plus I'm arguing the perceptions on the church. |
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The Comrade
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12039
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote:
It is my belief and not generalisation.
no, they are in fact generalizations.
As for them being beliefs, don't post them on a public forum and then hide behind the "well it's my opinion" argument. everyone on here is posting their opinions. the idea is to back it up.
Darth Tiberius wrote: Plus I'm arguing the perceptions on the church.
Which are again generalizations and/or lies. |
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Babylon_Horuv
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others. Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day. |
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The Comrade
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12039
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Babylon_Horuv wrote: The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others.
the minority does, but that does not equate to all the followers.
you're a pagan are you not? if i used some archaic example of druids or something using mass murder, would it equate to you being like that? of course not. it's silly to classify all religion as hurtful to society.
Babylon_Horuv wrote: Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
i thought i was an authoritarian socialist? |
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Darth Tiberius
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Babylon_Horuv wrote: The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others. Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary? |
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The Comrade
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12039
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote:
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary?
it's authoritarian. you have no right to hamper freedom of religion or freedom of speech. |
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Babylon_Horuv
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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The Comrade wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others.
the minority does, but that does not equate to all the followers.
you're a pagan are you not? if i used some archaic example of druids or something using mass murder, would it equate to you being like that? of course not. it's silly to classify all religion as hurtful to society.
certainly, I was mentioning the one instance in which it is acceptable to restrict religion. Not claiming that religion is always harmful
Quote:
Babylon_Horuv wrote: Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
i thought i was an authoritarian socialist?
You still strike me as an authoritarian Socialist. But that's better than An Antheist totalitarian communist. |
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Babylon_Horuv
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others. Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary?
terrifying. The Christians started out by doing something similar to the Pagans, and ended up burning us alive (not bashing Christians here, we did the same and worse to them) |
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von libertinism
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?
Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.
Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.
Telling me to read the bible and that God simply "kept doing terrible things to them" (the Jews) isn't a strong argument.
The Egyptians (non-Jews) dealt with the ten plagues: blood, frogs, fleas, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn children... yet, the Israelites were exempt from all 10 plagues (9 if they forgot to smear lamb blood).
Seems to me that the Jews had it easy; maybe the Holocaust was God's way of making things even.
The Jews were kept as slaves by the Egyptians for generations. They had not only their first born, but an entire generation killed by the pharoah.
Yeah, and over 8 million Congolese were killed, and those that weren't had their hands cut off. Millions died under Genghis Khan, millions died during colonization of the Americas, and there are plenty of other Non-Jew genocides in history.
You still haven't presented an argument for the claims "he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else" and "he kept doing terrible things to them (Jews)... meanwhile...he mostly let them be (Gentiles)."
When you polarize the Jews and the Non-Jews, the Non-Jews have had it worse, in my opinion. But it's silly to dichotomize the two, the Western Civ- God loves all equally.
Well, according to the text from which the Western Civ god is drawn, that is, the bible, he loves the jews best and that is why he inflicted so much suffering on them. Making him a sort of a Sadist God.
If your entire argument rests on "according to the text" and "read the bible," we're not making any progress. You still haven't made an argument for why "he loves the jews best," that "he inflicted so much suffering on them" (while mostly letting the Gentiles be), and that "he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else." |
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_Locke_
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Bailey
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people hate christians and jews so much |
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FL Conservative wrote: I know the answer, what is yours?
I don't hate jews, heck, my best friend is one, but I dislike christains, well the head strong ones, cuz they try shove crap down ur throat and try to convert u, if they lay off that I be fine with them |
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Gilbert1908
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5269
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Why do people hate christians and jews so much |
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_Locke_ wrote: FL Conservative wrote: I know the answer, what is yours?
I don't hate jews, heck, my best friend is one, but I dislike christains, well the head strong ones, cuz they try shove crap down ur throat and try to convert u, if they lay off that I be fine with them
You must REALLY hate telemarketers, wow if Christians ever telemarket watch out!!!! |
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Babylon_Horuv
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people hate christians and jews so much |
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Gilbert1908 wrote: _Locke_ wrote: FL Conservative wrote: I know the answer, what is yours?
I don't hate jews, heck, my best friend is one, but I dislike christains, well the head strong ones, cuz they try shove crap down ur throat and try to convert u, if they lay off that I be fine with them
You must REALLY hate telemarketers, wow if Christians ever telemarket watch out!!!!
They do. I have had a call wanting to talk to me about my relationship with Christ. I told them that b**** cheated on me and never called after that. |
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Darth Tiberius
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary?
it's authoritarian. you have no right to hamper freedom of religion or freedom of speech.
When it adversely effects society it is for the good of the people. |
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Darth Tiberius
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Babylon_Horuv wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others. Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary?
terrifying. The Christians started out by doing something similar to the Pagans, and ended up burning us alive (not bashing Christians here, we did the same and worse to them)
I don't advocate murder. I advocate the church having limited effect on society. |
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The Comrade
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12039
Location: Zagreb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote:
When it adversely effects society it is for the good of the people.
it does not adversely effect society. you are making a generalization again.
and once again you have no right to stop freedom of religion or freedom of speech. |
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Babylon_Horuv
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 2087
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Darth Tiberius wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:
Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.
your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".
not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.
why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?
The obvious reason is because their religion leads to the harm of others. Although if I had to choose between a world ruled by Darth Tiberius and one Ruled by the Comrade I would choose the comrade any day.
If I was president of some country I would try and make it law that religion cannot leave the confines of closed doors. It is faith. Not a matter that needs to be imposed on others and society. Is that so scary?
terrifying. The Christians started out by doing something similar to the Pagans, and ended up burning us alive (not bashing Christians here, we did the same and worse to them)
I don't advocate murder. I advocate the church having limited effect on society.
Sure you don't advocate murder......yet. |
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