Political Crossfire Forums

[Babylon_Horuv]

Demosthenes_ wrote: We don't hate Jews, we just make fun of their stinginess. Christians on the other hand have earned their hatred.

Quote: 3) people see the many prominent Christians slip up (sin) and enjoy seeing it, thinking (expecting) Christians to be perfect and enjoying when they fall (same odd reason why they love to see celebrities fall)

I agree with this. We always hear about this or that evangelical preacher who is gay or who stole money from his charity. It is also because for hundreds of years, Christians have been going about it all wrong. We have been trying to forcefully impose our will and beliefs on the people. We get conceited and believe we are better than the world because we are Christians. It happened during the crusades and I believe Hitler may have been a christian but don't quote me on it. The crusades were the Christian version of the Jihad. The Klu Klux Clan is "Christian".

People hate Christians for the same reason they hate Muslims. We are Conservative, radical, religious loonies who are not willing to climb out from under the rock of our religion.

Hitler was actually a pagan, and I assure you, we are ashamed of him.

[Demosthenes_]

Quote:
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

Are you allowing for the possibility that the Jews were deserving of their genocide, because I hope not?

Oh, I just realized some other instances where the Christian religion went totally ary.
1. The persicution at the hands of the catholic church
2. Purtian witch trials
3. overall disrespect of non believers

Realize though that this accounts for only small part of the Christian population around the world.

[von libertinism]

Demosthenes_ wrote: Quote:
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

Are you allowing for the possibility that the Jews were deserving of their genocide...?
I certainly seem to be entertaining the possibility.

[mODULAR mAN]

von libertinism wrote: Demosthenes_ wrote: Quote:
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

Are you allowing for the possibility that the Jews were deserving of their genocide...?
I certainly seem to be entertaining the possibility.

yes, you do. Why don't you expand upon this, Mel. :wink:

[von libertinism]

mODULAR mAN wrote: von libertinism wrote: Demosthenes_ wrote: Quote:
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

Are you allowing for the possibility that the Jews were deserving of their genocide...?
I certainly seem to be entertaining the possibility.

yes, you do. Why don't you expand upon this, Mel. :wink:
Haha. On the third page I wax the surface of the idea, but you're the second person here to call me Mel. :-p

[Babylon_Horuv]

You'll notice, if you read the bible, that God does terrible things to the Jews all the time. It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else. If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.

[mODULAR mAN]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: You'll notice, if you read the bible, that God does terrible things to the Jews all the time. It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else. If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.

Isn't everything part of God's Plan? I have trouble figuring out when God does something or when Satan does something or when humans simply exersize their Free Will.

[von libertinism]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

[von libertinism]

mODULAR mAN wrote: Isn't everything part of God's Plan? I have trouble figuring out when God does something or when Satan does something or when humans simply exersize their Free Will.
Muse over the idea that God and Satan are the same deity.

[Babylon_Horuv]

von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.

[von libertinism]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.
Telling me to read the bible and that God simply "kept doing terrible things to them" (the Jews) isn't a strong argument.

The Egyptians (non-Jews) dealt with the ten plagues: blood, frogs, fleas, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn children... yet, the Israelites were exempt from all 10 plagues (9 if they forgot to smear lamb blood).

Seems to me that the Jews had it easy; maybe the Holocaust was God's way of making things even.

[Babylon_Horuv]

von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.
Telling me to read the bible and that God simply "kept doing terrible things to them" (the Jews) isn't a strong argument.

The Egyptians (non-Jews) dealt with the ten plagues: blood, frogs, fleas, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn children... yet, the Israelites were exempt from all 10 plagues (9 if they forgot to smear lamb blood).

Seems to me that the Jews had it easy; maybe the Holocaust was God's way of making things even.

The Jews were kept as slaves by the Egyptians for generations. They had not only their first born, but an entire generation killed by the pharoah.

[von libertinism]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.
Telling me to read the bible and that God simply "kept doing terrible things to them" (the Jews) isn't a strong argument.

The Egyptians (non-Jews) dealt with the ten plagues: blood, frogs, fleas, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn children... yet, the Israelites were exempt from all 10 plagues (9 if they forgot to smear lamb blood).

Seems to me that the Jews had it easy; maybe the Holocaust was God's way of making things even.

The Jews were kept as slaves by the Egyptians for generations. They had not only their first born, but an entire generation killed by the pharoah.
Yeah, and over 8 million Congolese were killed, and those that weren't had their hands cut off. Millions died under Genghis Khan, millions died during colonization of the Americas, and there are plenty of other Non-Jew genocides in history.

You still haven't presented an argument for the claims "he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else" and "he kept doing terrible things to them (Jews)... meanwhile...he mostly let them be (Gentiles)."

When you polarize the Jews and the Non-Jews, the Non-Jews have had it worse, in my opinion. But it's silly to dichotomize the two, the Western Civ- God loves all equally.

[Babylon_Horuv]

von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: von libertinism wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: It's because they are his chosen people and he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else.
I hardly think the western civilization's God would hold anybody to higher standards than anyone else. We're all created equal, right?

Quote: If you accept that they deserved all of the other terrible things God did to them, why not the holocaust? And don't say "god didn't do it, the Nazi's did" because they are a tool of God, just as the Babylonians, Egyptians, and other peoples who did terrible things to the Jews were.
I already accepted the possibility that the Jews deserved The Holocaust, but I'd appreciate some evidence that suggests that God holds Jews to higher standards than Gentiles.

Read the bible, he kept doing terrible things to them, mostly for worshipping idols, meanwhile the gentiles were worshipping idols left and right and he mostly let them be.
Telling me to read the bible and that God simply "kept doing terrible things to them" (the Jews) isn't a strong argument.

The Egyptians (non-Jews) dealt with the ten plagues: blood, frogs, fleas, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn children... yet, the Israelites were exempt from all 10 plagues (9 if they forgot to smear lamb blood).

Seems to me that the Jews had it easy; maybe the Holocaust was God's way of making things even.

The Jews were kept as slaves by the Egyptians for generations. They had not only their first born, but an entire generation killed by the pharoah.
Yeah, and over 8 million Congolese were killed, and those that weren't had their hands cut off. Millions died under Genghis Khan, millions died during colonization of the Americas, and there are plenty of other Non-Jew genocides in history.

You still haven't presented an argument for the claims "he holds them to a higher standard than anyone else" and "he kept doing terrible things to them (Jews)... meanwhile...he mostly let them be (Gentiles)."

When you polarize the Jews and the Non-Jews, the Non-Jews have had it worse, in my opinion. But it's silly to dichotomize the two, the Western Civ- God loves all equally.

Well, according to the text from which the Western Civ god is drawn, that is, the bible, he loves the jews best and that is why he inflicted so much suffering on them. Making him a sort of a Sadist God.

[Darth Tiberius]

I and most people hate Christianity because of these reasons;

Christians push their opinions on others.
A Christian's philosophy is, "I'm right cause God said so and you all are wrong!!"
Christians believe they are better than others.
Christians believe you are diseased if you do something "immoral"
Christians believe in hell.
Christians believe that death and oppression are bringers of peace.
Christians are in nature paranoid.
Christians have a very bad history.
Christians seem arrogant.
Christians believe themselves as martyrs.
And there are soooo many more reasons.

And for Jews, one only has to look at Israel and the actions of using the horror and tragedy of the holocaust to gain sympathy beyond proportions. In my opinion. i do not think all christians and Jews are like this. this is what I see and why religion must be curtailed.

[The Comrade]

Darth Tiberius wrote: I and most people hate Christianity because of these reasons;

Christians push their opinions on others.
A Christian's philosophy is, "I'm right cause God said so and you all are wrong!!"
Christians believe they are better than others.
Christians believe you are diseased if you do something "immoral"
Christians believe in hell.
Christians believe that death and oppression are bringers of peace.
Christians are in nature paranoid.
Christians have a very bad history.
Christians seem arrogant.
Christians believe themselves as martyrs.
And there are soooo many more reasons.

And for Jews, one only has to look at Israel and the actions of using the horror and tragedy of the holocaust to gain sympathy beyond proportions. In my opinion. i do not think all christians and Jews are like this. this is what I see and why religion must be curtailed.


other then your misinformation, lies, and rash generalizations everything seems to be pretty solid....ohh wait that doesn't leave anything left from your post.

carry on.

[Darth Tiberius]

The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote: I and most people hate Christianity because of these reasons;

Christians push their opinions on others.
A Christian's philosophy is, "I'm right cause God said so and you all are wrong!!"
Christians believe they are better than others.
Christians believe you are diseased if you do something "immoral"
Christians believe in hell.
Christians believe that death and oppression are bringers of peace.
Christians are in nature paranoid.
Christians have a very bad history.
Christians seem arrogant.
Christians believe themselves as martyrs.
And there are soooo many more reasons.

And for Jews, one only has to look at Israel and the actions of using the horror and tragedy of the holocaust to gain sympathy beyond proportions. In my opinion. i do not think all christians and Jews are like this. this is what I see and why religion must be curtailed.


other then your misinformation, lies, and rash generalizations everything seems to be pretty solid....ohh wait that doesn't leave anything left from your post.

carry on.

Prove me wrong then. From the actions of the churches of the world and the pain that goes in their wake it seems my observations are right.

[The Comrade]

Darth Tiberius wrote:

Prove me wrong then. From the actions of the churches of the world and the pain that goes in their wake it seems my observations are right.


you deal entirely in absolutes and society does not work in absolutes. this alone is damning evidence for your lies and generalizations.

[Darth Tiberius]

The Comrade wrote: Darth Tiberius wrote:

Prove me wrong then. From the actions of the churches of the world and the pain that goes in their wake it seems my observations are right.


you deal entirely in absolutes and society does not work in absolutes. this alone is damning evidence for your lies and generalizations.

Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.

[The Comrade]

Darth Tiberius wrote:

Note that I stated that not all christians and Jews are guilty of these traits. Read more.

your list is all absolutes, and then after your little disclaimer you once again use an absolute in saying "this is what i see and why religion must be curtailed".

not only do you contradict your disclaimer, but your last sentance says that religion needs to be "curtailed" even though you also claim it's not all christians or jews. so yes, you do deal in absolutes, generalizations, and lies.


why shouldn't anyone be able to practice their religion freely?