Political Crossfire Forums

[Babylon_Horuv]

Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.

The nazi's were rather technologically advanced.

[von libertinism]

Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

[The Russian]

von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

What you're doing is speculating divine will, and only through the method of divine will could you speculate such. It seems to me, that being an atheist is its own reward to people who dont fall into such falacies.

[sparsely]

The Russian wrote: greeneye... I would write a long retort to different points in your arguement, but there would be no point as it would boil down to the fact that I'm an atheist, and you're a theist, and the original arguement falls apart at that.

Where as I do not believe in the kingdom of god, I believe in the kingdom of man... and while there exist both needs and wants, there will be strife.

To exist, man needs food, shelter, and a mate. A man wants to sample atleast all the food in the world, live in a home that can shelter more than just himself and his family, and desires more than one mate as both a biological principal, and an internal pleasure, because what is pleasure other than reward for biological prudency.

For as long as these forces are at war, and man desires more than is necessary to sustain him as a reflection of the want of domination or power, he will find those who oppose him. And to depose of any opposition one seeks reasons for the help of others do it for him and keep him in power, and so he shall concieve of a way to keep himself above others... as a biological instinct, gone awry in a society that has become communaley dependant on a certain quality of life. The larger we grow viliages, towns, countries, nations and continents, the more peoples help we need to stay in power, and the more people we need to convince that there exists a force, even if imaginary, in opposition to them and you, so to make it seem that in supporting you, they support themselves.

<3

[von libertinism]

The Russian wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

What you're doing is speculating divine will, and only through the method of divine will could you speculate such. It seems to me, that being an atheist is its own reward to people who dont fall into such falacies.
I don't understand your claim. Yes, I'm speculating divine will. But why must my speculation be through divine will itself? If divine will does exist, then I can only speculate about divine will through divine will. However, if divine will doesn't exist (which it doesn't), that doesn't mean I can't speculate about what the world would be like under divine will. Therefore, I don't necessarily speculate about divine will through divine will.

[[deleted muse on people's perception of God]]

[Gilbert1908]

von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

There is no basis of any kind that would justify such a statement based upon ANYTHING related to any Christian or Jewish theology.

Your "comentating" is your own unjustifiable and prehaps wishful speculation that ANY people COULD deserve such a fate.

[The Russian]

von libertinism wrote: The Russian wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

What you're doing is speculating divine will, and only through the method of divine will could you speculate such. It seems to me, that being an atheist is its own reward to people who dont fall into such falacies.
I don't understand your claim. Yes, I'm speculating divine will. But why must my speculation be through divine will itself? If divine will does exist, then I can only speculate about divine will through divine will. However, if divine will doesn't exist (which it doesn't), that doesn't mean I can't speculate about what the world would be like under divine will. Therefore, I don't necessarily speculate about divine will through divine will.

[[deleted muse on people's perception of God]]

To speculate that the killing of 6 million women, men, and children could have been justified in any way is something left to 'faith' itself. My mistake could be simply that I'm presuming that when you say its actualy plausible that they deserved to be killed, that it might not be your interpretaion of a possible divine will, but simple prejudice.

[perdidochas]

FL Conservative wrote: I know the answer, what is yours?

As a Christian, I don't feel hated.

[feederband]

agentkgb wrote: feederband wrote: I don't hate anyone...
No one? Not at all? Impressive.

Life's too short...

[perdidochas]

Tek wrote: Let me tell you why the Christians and Jews are hated. Number one the southern baptists say that Gays Muslims etc will go to hell but they do not mention lazyness, drunkeness, adultery, the list goes on and on. What makes Christians saved is that Jesus purified us with his spirit and blood on the cross so when we haved sined we ask for forgiveness then thus we are forgiven as if we did not sin. The Jews are because they have always been hated that's why they are God's children.

Based on iving in Southern Baptist country around a lot of Southern Baptists (not being one myself), I can safely say that adultery, drunkenness and laziness are definitely on the lists of things Southern baptists think will keep you out of heaven. I would probably guess that drunkenness is viewed right up there with homosexuality.

[greeneye]

agentkgb wrote: feederband wrote: I don't hate anyone...
No one? Not at all? Impressive.

Why is that impressive? Why do men have to find a need to hate?

[von libertinism]

Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

There is no basis of any kind that would justify such a statement based upon ANYTHING related to any Christian or Jewish theology.

Your "comentating" is your own unjustifiable and prehaps wishful speculation that ANY people COULD deserve such a fate.
Perhaps it *could* be my wishful speculation, but what makes it unjustifiable?

[von libertinism]

The Russian wrote: von libertinism wrote: The Russian wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

What you're doing is speculating divine will, and only through the method of divine will could you speculate such. It seems to me, that being an atheist is its own reward to people who dont fall into such falacies.
I don't understand your claim. Yes, I'm speculating divine will. But why must my speculation be through divine will itself? If divine will does exist, then I can only speculate about divine will through divine will. However, if divine will doesn't exist (which it doesn't), that doesn't mean I can't speculate about what the world would be like under divine will. Therefore, I don't necessarily speculate about divine will through divine will.

[[deleted muse on people's perception of God]]

To speculate that the killing of 6 million women, men, and children could have been justified in any way is something left to 'faith' itself. My mistake could be simply that I'm presuming that when you say its actualy plausible that they deserved to be killed, that it might not be your interpretaion of a possible divine will, but simple prejudice.
Well spoken. I'm pleading the fifth on this one; as I've stated in other threads, my beliefs are an amalgamation of honesty, satire, & profanation... I no longer understand what I believe.

[Babylon_Horuv]

Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

There is no basis of any kind that would justify such a statement based upon ANYTHING related to any Christian or Jewish theology.

Your "comentating" is your own unjustifiable and prehaps wishful speculation that ANY people COULD deserve such a fate.

Hell is worse than the holocaust. And Christianity condemns Jews to hell. Thus, according to Christianity, Jews deserve worse than the holocaust.

[greeneye]

Babylon_Horuv wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

There is no basis of any kind that would justify such a statement based upon ANYTHING related to any Christian or Jewish theology.

Your "comentating" is your own unjustifiable and prehaps wishful speculation that ANY people COULD deserve such a fate.

Hell is worse than the holocaust. And Christianity condemns Jews to hell. Thus, according to Christianity, Jews deserve worse than the holocaust.

Humm...what line, in what book in what dogma did you form that unbiased opinion? Or would it be safe to say .... forget the dogma...you just don't like Jews ?:think:

[Babylon_Horuv]

greeneye wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: von libertinism wrote: greeneye wrote: Well, since we're doing hypotheticals.... without Hitler, 6 million Jews would have survived and God would have been more glorified not to mention the positive impact that would have made on so many generations.
That's based on the assumption that the Jews didn't deserve it, which neither of us are able to confirm or deny.

It is fascinating to me that such a hateful, obviously evil statement could be made by any one with the ability to use a keyboard.
I'm not playing God, I'm just commentating.

There is no basis of any kind that would justify such a statement based upon ANYTHING related to any Christian or Jewish theology.

Your "comentating" is your own unjustifiable and prehaps wishful speculation that ANY people COULD deserve such a fate.

Hell is worse than the holocaust. And Christianity condemns Jews to hell. Thus, according to Christianity, Jews deserve worse than the holocaust.

Humm...what line, in what book in what dogma did you form that unbiased opinion? Or would it be safe to say .... forget the dogma...you just don't like Jews ?:think:

Actually, it's that I just don't like Christianity. But here is how I come to this conclusion. Jesus says "no man shall come to the father but through me" Jews don't accept Jesus as their lord and savior, thus Jews go to hell.

[John]

Quote: Actually, it's that I just don't like Christianity. But here is how I come to this conclusion. Jesus says "no man shall come to the father but through me" Jews don't accept Jesus as their lord and savior, thus Jews go to hell.

Lots of Jews have and ALL will during the Tribulation. I'd spend more time worrying about yourself....because the Jews will do just fine.

[Babylon_Horuv]

John wrote: Quote: Actually, it's that I just don't like Christianity. But here is how I come to this conclusion. Jesus says "no man shall come to the father but through me" Jews don't accept Jesus as their lord and savior, thus Jews go to hell.

Lots of Jews have and ALL will during the Tribulation. I'd spend more time worrying about yourself....because the Jews will do just fine.

Assuming they are religiously Jews, and not just ethnically Jews, then, no, they have not. Once they accept Christ they become Christians.

[agentkgb]

greeneye wrote: agentkgb wrote: feederband wrote: I don't hate anyone...
No one? Not at all? Impressive.

Why is that impressive? Why do men have to find a need to hate?
It's impressive because almost always people do hate.

[Demosthenes_]

We don't hate Jews, we just make fun of their stinginess. Christians on the other hand have earned their hatred.

Quote: 3) people see the many prominent Christians slip up (sin) and enjoy seeing it, thinking (expecting) Christians to be perfect and enjoying when they fall (same odd reason why they love to see celebrities fall)

I agree with this. We always hear about this or that evangelical preacher who is gay or who stole money from his charity. It is also because for hundreds of years, Christians have been going about it all wrong. We have been trying to forcefully impose our will and beliefs on the people. We get conceited and believe we are better than the world because we are Christians. It happened during the crusades and I believe Hitler may have been a christian but don't quote me on it. The crusades were the Christian version of the Jihad. The Klu Klux Clan is "Christian".

People hate Christians for the same reason they hate Muslims. We are Conservative, radical, religious loonies who are not willing to climb out from under the rock of our religion.