Political Crossfire Forums

[British boy]

I dont mean should America still remain an ally, thats a given for me, I'm wondering should America provide Israel with weapons, and join in wars against the Arab nations with Israel?

I'm not to crazy about the way i worded the question I hope you get what I was trying to say :-D

[superskippy]

No, that would only complicate things further. Help us with tools and diplomatic support and we will finish the job.

[ALi*]

no is a typical answer...
i say yes! if the usa continues providing israel with weapons itll encourage israel to do sumthing stupid (ex: attacking iran) wich will bring a near end to the criminal zionist state. :lol:

[mendosan]

ALi* wrote: no is a typical answer...
i say yes! if the usa continues providing israel with weapons itll encourage israel to do sumthing stupid (ex: attacking iran) wich will bring a near end to the criminal zionist state. :lol:

Hasn't the Quote: criminal zionist state made private assurances that it will nuke every Arab city within range of its missiles if anyone manages to bring it to its knees.

[superskippy]

Yes. Our destruction means the Arab Worlds destruction. That is the price for our destruction and we wont change it.

[Pareve]

superskippy wrote: Yes. Our destruction means the Arab Worlds destruction. That is the price for our destruction and we wont change it.
That might not be the best plan for a group that often relies on suicide bombing or goading soldiers into conflict by throwing rocks as tactics.

[Plato & Socrates]

mendosan wrote:

Hasn't the Quote: criminal zionist state made private assurances that it will nuke every Arab city within range of its missiles if anyone manages to bring it to its knees.

If this is true what your saying Mendosan, then Israel is more dangerous than I thought. Think of it. Israel making a promise like this, even against Arab states not currently hostile against Israel. But if another Arab nation decided through madness, to take on Israel via nuclear exchange. Israel has threatened retaliation, like you have described?
To me this is as bad as Admadmanijads comments, even worse.

If I was a Arab leader aware of these comments/private assurances, I would pursue a nuclear option, and tell the U.S and the U.N to go f**k themselves. I could'nt be a leader, living under the threat of a mushroom cloud, because a fellow Arab country decides to take on Israel irrespective of my countries views. But because I'm a fellow Arab country irrespective of involvement, Israel has vowed to bomb me also.

This just shows how DUMB those Arab countries are, to let a situation like this arise and be in a position where they are so defenseless. What next, if Israel was bought to her knees, would Israel aim her nuclear missile's on European capitals for payback for those years of persecution and anti-semitism? why not, she would have nothing to lose? and where complaining about Iran? Theres food for thought. :think:

[unclesamual]

Quote: Yes. Our destruction means the Arab Worlds destruction. That is the price for our destruction and we wont change it.

So, if the situation was flipped and Israel was faced with occupation by arabs instead of israeli occupation of arabs. And the arabs had the upperhand instead of Israel having the upper hand.

If this occured, you would perform a terrorist attack on civilian populations the likes of which the world has never seen.

And you complain about the attacks directed at your civilians? You would do 100,000 times worse.

[mendosan]

Plato & Socrates wrote: mendosan wrote:

Hasn't the Quote: criminal zionist state made private assurances that it will nuke every Arab city within range of its missiles if anyone manages to bring it to its knees.

If this is true what your saying Mendosan, then Israel is more dangerous than I thought. Think of it. Israel making a promise like this, even against Arab states not currently hostile against Israel. But if another Arab nation decided through madness, to take on Israel via nuclear exchange. Israel has threatened retaliation, like you have described?
To me this is as bad as Admadmanijads comments, even worse.

If I was a Arab leader aware of these comments/private assurances, I would pursue a nuclear option, and tell the U.S and the U.N to go f**k themselves. I could'nt be a leader, living under the threat of a mushroom cloud, because a fellow Arab country decides to take on Israel irrespective of my countries views. But because I'm a fellow Arab country irrespective of involvement, Israel has vowed to bomb me also.

This just shows how DUMB those Arab countries are, to let a situation like this arise and be in a position where they are so defenseless. What next, if Israel was bought to her knees, would Israel aim her nuclear missile's on European capitals for payback for those years of persecution and anti-semitism? why not, she would have nothing to lose? and where complaining about Iran? Theres food for thought. :think:

I think they said that when they were under threat from powerful Arab armies, its what nukes are for, they make the price of your defeat unbearable to the enemy. Its the ultimate guarantee of any state.

The problem with Iran is its seen to be Messianic, they view the nukes there making as Islamic bombs, and the theory is that they won't mind taking a hit from Israeli nukes because they will already have shaped Islam into there own image, ill try and get a link for that 2moz im going bed now.

[unclesamual]

Quote: I think they said that when they were under threat from powerful Arab armies, its what nukes are for, they make the price of your defeat unbearable to the enemy. Its the ultimate guarantee of any state.

The problem with Iran is its seen to be Messianic, they view the nukes there making as Islamic bombs, and the theory is that they won't mind taking a hit from Israeli nukes because they will already have shaped Islam into there own image, ill try and get a link for that 2moz im going bed now.

If nuclear attacks on civilian populations can be justified in the face of defeat from arab conventionally equiped armies, then smaller scale attacks on civilians in the face of defeat from the Israeli conventional army can also be justified.

Does anyone else see the threat of destroying the arab world the threat of genocide? Arabs are an ethnic group.

[mendosan]

unclesamual wrote: Quote: I think they said that when they were under threat from powerful Arab armies, its what nukes are for, they make the price of your defeat unbearable to the enemy. Its the ultimate guarantee of any state.

The problem with Iran is its seen to be Messianic, they view the nukes there making as Islamic bombs, and the theory is that they won't mind taking a hit from Israeli nukes because they will already have shaped Islam into there own image, ill try and get a link for that 2moz im going bed now.

If nuclear attacks on civilian populations can be justified in the face of defeat from arab conventionally equiped armies, then smaller scale attacks on civilians in the face of defeat from the Israeli conventional army can also be justified.

Does anyone else see the threat of destroying the arab world the threat of genocide? Arabs are an ethnic group.

I should have made it clear that Israelis generally think that a succesful Arab invasion of Israel will result in the murder of most of the Jewish population, so I guess they wouldn't care.

Quote: If nuclear attacks on civilian populations can be justified in the face of defeat from arab conventionally equiped armies,

Sorry this is my fault for not mentioning the Israeli belief that they would be "driven into the sea".

[unclesamual]

Quote: I should have made it clear that Israelis generally think that a succesful Arab invasion of Israel will result in the murder of most of the Jewish population, so I guess they wouldn't care.

Quote: Sorry this is my fault for not mentioning the Israeli belief that they would be "driven into the sea".

All I heard from this was Israelis think Arabs are mass-murdering anti-semites.

The claim of anti-semitism is false as 850,000 Jews lived in peace with Arab neighbors pre-Israel. Judaism is one of the more respected religions in Islamic thought. "People of the book" and whatnot. I generally think the mass-murdering idea as a description for Arabs is racism, but that is just me I guess. Racism is fairly common in Israeli culture with their own racial slurs though. Things like "acting like an arab" to mean acting inhumanely, barbarically.

All you state is what the Israelis think, and avoid any sort of justification for it.

[superskippy]

Quote: And you complain about the attacks directed at your civilians? You would do 100,000 times worse.

Which is exactly the point, if we face annihilation or destruction by Arab forces then the Arab world will burn. We are here to stay and the Arab world has to accept that the alternative to our existance is nuclear fire.

[unclesamual]

Quote: Which is exactly the point, if we face annihilation or destruction by Arab forces then the Arab world will burn. We are here to stay and the Arab world has to accept that the alternative to our existance is nuclear fire.

Right, as your hypothetical nuclear holocaust would be a statement that you are there to stay. The terrorism that has been implemented against you is/was a statement that Palestinians are there to stay.

You kicked Palestinians off their lands in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and it continues today.

Quote: Months after Ariel Sharon announced his dramatic plan to pull Jewish settlers out of Gaza, portraying it as a sacrifice for peace, the government is grabbing more land for West Bank settlements.
.........
One Israeli group, Settlement Watch, says in the three months to May, West Bank settlements expanded by 26 hectares (65 acres).The government has approved construction of thousands more homes in the three main settlement blocs on the West Bank, encouraged by an apparent endorsement by George Bush for their eventual annexation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1269880,00.html

Quote:
Israel is continuing the construction in West Bank settlement, despite claims additional building is in violation of the road map.

The Israel Lands Administration (ILA) Thursday issued building tenders for 13 lots in Ma'aleh Adumim, while the Housing Ministry issued tenders for building infrastructures in Ariel, Ma'aleh Adumim and Adam.

http://www.palestine-pmc.com/details.asp?cat=3&id=844

Quote: Aerial photographs by Israel's defence ministry have provided fresh evidence that the government is continuing its rapid expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank despite public statements to the contrary.

The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz yesterday reported that the pictures, taken last summer and again this year, show extensive construction on settlements, confirming Palestinian fears that Ariel Sharon is using the upheaval around the removal of Jewish settlers from the Gaza strip as cover to grab control of more of the West Bank.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1442185,00.html

map of seperation wall: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/wall-map.gif

That wall effectively shows willingness to annex half the west bank. Reach a compromise and go back to the 1967 borders. You get the land you took in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s up tell 1967, you don't get the land you took in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. I know that means kicking out some settlers. Hard leaving your homes isn't it? Sometimes you reap what you sow and that applies to the settlers. Seems even. If you don't do this, then least you can do is not annex half the west bank.

Germany screwed you, and you screwed the Palestinians. Give them a bone. I know you are afraid of the militant settlers though. Heck, I would be....threatening death to prime ministers and such. It though kind of takes the meat out of the position that Lebanon should deal with Hezbollah when you can't keep your militant settlers in line.

Settling past the 1967 borders also flies in the face of international law.

The Gaza Strip: 360 square kilometers
The West Bank: 5,860 square kilometers
Israel: 20,770 square kilometers

Seems even considering Palestinians used to own it all. Ehh, what are compromises for?

[mr_happy]

I would hope Israel has the sense to bring down the arab nation that is attacking, not any others neutral to the conflict.

[superskippy]

Quote: Right, as your hypothetical nuclear holocaust would be a statement that you are there to stay. The terrorism that has been implemented against you is/was a statement that Palestinians are there to stay.

If the Palestinians ever truely faced annihilation or destruction I would probably sympathize with their actions. I stand by my statement, if the Arab forces ever stand upon the threshold of destroying or annihilating Israel we will make it so they never rise again. Our revenge will be more sweeping then anything the world has ever seen.

[yETII90]

British boy wrote: I dont mean should America still remain an ally, thats a given for me, I'm wondering should America provide Israel with weapons, and join in wars against the Arab nations with Israel?

I'm not to crazy about the way i worded the question I hope you get what I was trying to say :-D

If giving weapons to Israel is right, morally, than it is equally right to give weapons to the Palestinians. No one has been declared the moral winner in this conflict by far, the Palestinians continue to elect terrorist organizations, and suicide bomb innocent Israeli towns (which makes them look like savages unable of running a government), and the Israelis continue to mount on this "Ends justify the means" buisness of doing almost anything to get just one terrorist, even if it means killing many innocents in the process (which I may remind you doesn't work, just look at Hizbollah and its new support).

[emerald]

Quote: I should have made it clear that Israelis generally think that a succesful Arab invasion of Israel will result in the murder of most of the Jewish population, so I guess they wouldn't care.

come on, even if israel was under threat from all it's neighbouring arab countries, (which it isnt) there is no way they would win agaisnt the sort of power, and military that israel has, as well as the support that it would have from America militarily, financially as well as supporting all the humanitarean abuses that would probably result from it. if it all got seriously messed up America would be sending it's troops over there to fight with them if needed, that would not be a situation either side would want.

[cap'n queasy]

unclesamual wrote: Quote: I think they said that when they were under threat from powerful Arab armies, its what nukes are for, they make the price of your defeat unbearable to the enemy. Its the ultimate guarantee of any state.

The problem with Iran is its seen to be Messianic, they view the nukes there making as Islamic bombs, and the theory is that they won't mind taking a hit from Israeli nukes because they will already have shaped Islam into there own image, ill try and get a link for that 2moz im going bed now.

If nuclear attacks on civilian populations can be justified in the face of defeat from arab conventionally equiped armies, then smaller scale attacks on civilians in the face of defeat from the Israeli conventional army can also be justified.

Does anyone else see the threat of destroying the arab world the threat of genocide? Arabs are an ethnic group.

The only ones making genocidal threats are the Arabs.

[ALi*]

Quote: Hasn't the criminal zionist state made private assurances that it will nuke every Arab city within range of its missiles if anyone manages to bring it to its knees.
and u blame iran y they say they will wipe you out if they had to...? and u say iran is agressive and...and...?

Quote: Yes. Our destruction means the Arab Worlds destruction. That is the price for our destruction and we wont change it.

oh no! hehe u missed that by a lot!!
a war with iran has nothing to do with arabs... and if israel was stupid enough to attack an arab country(beside lebanon who has NO army u cowards) then u can talk... but look at ur future president perez.. :lol: hes begging syria for peace (in a way)

Quote: This just shows how DUMB those Arab countries are, to let a situation like this arise and be in a position where they are so defenseless.
they arent actually DUMB... KSA alone owns 11% of america , the president is their boy (little bush) and his father is an old friend. So if u take the KSA as an exemple beside the enormous number of american army equipement and technologies... u have the OIL factor... u dont wanna mess with arabs especially if ur a big country in big need for power and oil.

Quote: All I heard from this was Israelis think Arabs are mass-murdering anti-semites.

look at this omg!! for the 6578th time... arabs are also SEMITES!
now if u noticed ur talking abt israel and im talking abt the usa...
we all know israel can NOT make a decision by itself without the american administration approoving it... wich i doubt it cuz it will cost them alot..in every meaning!

Quote: Which is exactly the point, if we face annihilation or destruction by Arab forces then the Arab world will burn. We are here to stay and the Arab world has to accept that the alternative to our existance is nuclear fire.
bring it on... we are neighbouring you...youll pay too :lol:

Quote: The only ones making genocidal threats are the Arabs.
source plz?