Political Crossfire Forums

[ubikk]

I notice the term "Retarded" has become more fashionable to use in casual conversation, particularly. For many years it was taboo to use this term because it related to "developmentally disabled" people and was thought to be offensive for that reason. Since "developmentally disabled" persons have not been called "retarded" in many years (a couple decades at least), the stigma or taboo seems to be wearing off.

In fact, if you remove the stigma, people are using it correctly a lot of the time. Calling something "retarded" literally means that it has been "slowed down", is "behind" or "set back" or is "hindering advancement" or "lacking advancement". When you "retard the timing" on a car, for example, you make the spark plug fire earlier in the cycle. The term "Ritardundo" in music means to slow down the tempo of the music and comes from the same Latin root.

I'm still schooled in the older method of avoiding the term, so it still makes me wince sometimes. Although I will admit that it is useful at times. Thoughts?

[gemma]

ubikk wrote: I notice the term "Retarded" has become more fashionable to use in casual conversation, particularly. For many years it was taboo to use this term because it related to "developmentally disabled" people and was thought to be offensive for that reason. Since "developmentally disabled" persons have not been called "retarded" in many years (a couple decades at least), the stigma or taboo seems to be wearing off.

In fact, if you remove the stigma, people are using it correctly a lot of the time. Calling something "retarded" literally means that it has been "slowed down", is "behind" or "set back" or is "hindering advancement" or "lacking advancement". When you "retard the timing" on a car, for example, you make the spark plug fire earlier in the cycle. The term "Ritardundo" in music means to slow down the tempo of the music and comes from the same Latin root.

I'm still schooled in the older method of avoiding the term, so it still makes me wince sometimes. Although I will admit that it is useful at times. Thoughts?

I do not believe it is more acceptable, in PC terms. Yes, it's an accurate term. However, my little self-rule is not to call anyone something, which, however accurate, is also used in a derogatory manner.

Don't you hear the word "retard" or "retarded" as insults/put-downs mostly? I do, and that is the only time I hear the word.

The "N" word comes almost directly from the Latin word for "black." Accurate? Yes. Acceptable? No.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for my blatant PC-ness, but to me it's courtesy, not self-censorship.

[The Comrade]

people aren't short they're vertically challenged. people aren't jerks they have intermitent explosive disorder.


being PC is like having the plague.

[The Grandmaster]

The Comrade wrote: people aren't short they're vertically challenged. people aren't jerks they have intermitent explosive disorder.

being PC is like having the plague.

Yes, it's getting ridiculous, isn't it? Did you know you're not even supposed to call them mentally disabled anymore?? No, you are supposed to call them "consumers." How the f**k does that make sense? That word means something completely different already! It is getting to the point where we can't even communicate anymore. We've had to replace so many words with ridiculous sugar coated bulls**t that our words cease to have meaning.

[gemma]

The Comrade wrote: people aren't short they're vertically challenged. people aren't jerks they have intermitent explosive disorder.


being PC is like having the plague.

LOL so I'm guessing you don't mind saying "retarded?" And you feel no strangeness calling a child who has Down's Syndrome, "retarded" to a parent's face?

I do not think short and jerk are good examples. Pick better ones before you condemn me to a slow, pus-drenched itchy death. :P

[The Comrade]

gemma wrote:

LOL so I'm guessing you don't mind saying "retarded?" And you feel no strangeness calling a child who has Down's Syndrome, "retarded" to a parent's face?

I do not think short and jerk are good examples. Pick better ones before you condemn me to a slow, pus-drenched itchy death. :P



i would have no problem saying it. their child is in fact retarded.


short and jerk are perfect examples.

But if you must i will use different ones.

white people are Caucasian(i did not come from the caucus) . black people are african american(white people live in africa, and unless you're an african immigrant you are not african american).

[The Comrade]

The Grandmaster wrote:

Yes, it's getting ridiculous, isn't it? Did you know you're not even supposed to call them mentally disabled anymore?? No, you are supposed to call them "consumers." How the f**k does that make sense? That word means something completely different already! It is getting to the point where we can't even communicate anymore. We've had to replace so many words with ridiculous sugar coated bulls**t that our words cease to have meaning.


we agree for once!

tis a miracle!


i read a book where people weren't allowed to remember a thing, and had to carry around a portable memory. when they talked to someone they had to consult their memory so it could tell them what the hell was going on. the portable memory was heavily edited so NOTHING would ever be offensive to anyone anywhere at any time.

obviously this is science fiction but it's getting to the point like that. you won't be able to say anythign without offending someone. you'll have to start talking using as few adjectives as possible.

[gemma]

Think about context. People use "retard" as an insult, a harsh one too. They virtually spit it out usually.

No one uses the word "short" or "white" in this way. Do you see the difference?

Anyway, I'm not trying to repress you. I'm just articulating my philosophy, which is actually quite easy to follow and has the side benefit of not insulting anyone. Oh, and also answering the OP's question. :wink:

[VinceDee]

I have no problem with using insults, and I think political correctness is retarded.

[seinfeld mode]
Have you ever noticed that the PC police always come out with PC terms that are significantly longer than the original?

black = african american
crippled = physically handicapped
retarded = developmentally disabled
short = vertically challenged
midget = little person

So when I talk about my crippled black short retarded midget neighbor across the street, I'm now supposed to call him a physically handicapped african american vertically challenged developmentally disabled little person?

It's ridiculous, I tell ya, and I refuse to play.
[/seinfeld mode]

[Babylon_Horuv]

The Grandmaster wrote: The Comrade wrote: people aren't short they're vertically challenged. people aren't jerks they have intermitent explosive disorder.

being PC is like having the plague.

Yes, it's getting ridiculous, isn't it? Did you know you're not even supposed to call them mentally disabled anymore?? No, you are supposed to call them "consumers." How the f**k does that make sense? That word means something completely different already! It is getting to the point where we can't even communicate anymore. We've had to replace so many words with ridiculous sugar coated bulls**t that our words cease to have meaning.

consumer meaning the same thing as mentally challenged. I can agree with that.

[ubikk]

gemma wrote:

Don't you hear the word "retard" or "retarded" as insults/put-downs mostly? I do, and that is the only time I hear the word.



Usually yes. Sometimes it's used to describe something that's badly designed, or regressive like a bad policy or a policy that moves things backward socially or slows progress, for example.

gemma wrote:
No one uses the word "short" or "white" in this way. Do you see the difference?

Sometimes I do hear "white" used as an insult. Like "He comes from some snobby lilly-white high school". or "That's about the whitest so-and-so I've ever seen" when referring to a dorky, un-hip, snobby or racist person.

[ubikk]

VinceDee wrote: I have no problem with using insults, and I think political correctness is retarded.

[seinfeld mode]
Have you ever noticed that the PC police always come out with PC terms that are significantly longer than the original?

black = african american
crippled = physically handicapped
retarded = developmentally disabled
short = vertically challenged
midget = little person


Yes, because they're trying to change from a perjorative adjective to a descriptive term

[Melchior]

I don't have any strong feelings or passionate opinion about political correctness. Because honestly, I've only ever seen people complain and rant about it, argue against it, call it Orwell's newspeak.

Never have I seen an argument in favor or endorsement of it. Honestly, I don't see PC terms as a widespread linguistic epidemic, it doesn't feel like words are getting longer, and it doesn't feel like English is becoming a handicapped device for communication...

Excuse me, I meant crippled, we need to cut down on those syllables, right?

VinceDee wrote: black = african american

I use both, black casually and african american when I want to display a sense to formality, since it's more accurate. I've never had a problem with using either or anyone else using either.

VinceDee wrote: crippled = physically handicapped

Just say handicapped, mostly the issue with these PC terms seem to be the length of syllables right? Everyone as far as I know just says handicapped.

Who the hell says crippled? Middle school punks who interject words like "gay" and "sweet" into their language are the only group of people I hear use a word like crippled.

VinceDee wrote: retarded = developmentally disabled

I have never heard anyone pronounce the term "developmentally disabled", and to be honest that would be a b**** to mouth out whenever necessary.

Just say retarded, the taboo with using it casually is wearing off, that's a good thing, but I have never seen an using with someone using the word retarded to refer to a retarded person. I know there are more appropriate terms that caretakers and parents of retarded children use, but developmentally disabled is not one of them.

VinceDee wrote: short = vertically challenged

Everyone says short, no one says vertically challenged. I have only heard the term vertically challenged within jokes (always jokes about political correctness).

VinceDee wrote: midget = little person

This one I actually don't get, I used the word midget for the longest, I never knew it was offensive to little people.

If they want to be called little people then I'll call them little people, but I don't think the term is anymore appropriate. I don't know where the word midget came from, but I know the medical term is dwarf. I also know that because of this PC term it would be harder to differentiate between a real midget and someone who is just little.

"She's a little person, but not a official little person"

I still don't see this as a pressing issue viable for debate. It's cute how often people take the chicken little route when it comes to language, they run to protect it at all costs when they don't realize how affective it is at adapting.

[VinceDee]

ubikk wrote: VinceDee wrote: I have no problem with using insults, and I think political correctness is retarded.

[seinfeld mode]
Have you ever noticed that the PC police always come out with PC terms that are significantly longer than the original?

black = african american
crippled = physically handicapped
retarded = developmentally disabled
short = vertically challenged
midget = little person


Yes, because they're trying to change from a perjorative adjective to a descriptive term

That's amusing, because there's nothing "african" about american blacks, except that their ancestors came from Africa. I sure don't hear anyone using "european americans" a helluva lot. If these PC police are so in favor of equality then let's see it in how consistently they apply their own rules. And "vertically challenged" is an asinine term, having nothing to do with a short person being "challenged" in any way. You're short, it's your genetics, get over it. And what's the opposite of "vertically challenged", anyway? "vertically enhanced"?

Political correctness is stupid. It's comes from people being emotionally weak and insecure, and unable to just deal with who they are. It also comes from people being afraid to insult someone, for those same reasons. I'm a tad on the short side of average for a full grown man, but I don't give a crap if anyone calls me "short" or even a "midget". If you call me something stupid like "vertically challenged" then I'm just going to laugh at you.

Americans need to get over themselves and start living in the real world and stop letting every little damn thing bruise their fragile, yet gigantic, egos.

Vince

[Melchior]

VinceDee, I would agree and take your side if you could just point out where these PC Police are.

To me this is a one-sided debate where everyone gets angry and rants about something, that would a be perfectly understandable issue to rant about if the issue actually existed.

[Superfly]

I wince when I hear someone call someone else "retarded", or call them a "retard".

I just think it's not cool.

[VinceDee]

Melchior wrote: VinceDee, I would agree and take your side if you could just point out where these PC Police are.

To me this is a one-sided debate where everyone gets angry and rants about something, that would a be perfectly understandable issue to rant about if the issue actually existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Read the section on "Critics of Political Correctness"

While it is only wikipedia (and therefore subject to being taken with the appropriate grain of salt), it still comes fairly close to my understanding of how political correctness is used.

The term "African American" wasn't even in use during the '70s and most of the '80s, yet here we are, expected to use it seriously in public discourse. That's an example of political correctness. And there are plenty more ("hearing impaired" for "deaf" is another one that the wikipedia points out that deaf people hate).

Vince

[eynon]

The Grandmaster wrote: The Comrade wrote: people aren't short they're vertically challenged. people aren't jerks they have intermitent explosive disorder.

being PC is like having the plague.

Yes, it's getting ridiculous, isn't it? Did you know you're not even supposed to call them mentally disabled anymore?? No, you are supposed to call them "consumers." How the f**k does that make sense? That word means something completely different already! It is getting to the point where we can't even communicate anymore. We've had to replace so many words with ridiculous sugar coated bulls**t that our words cease to have meaning.

handi-capable :wink:

[mathurin]

Melchior wrote:
VinceDee wrote: black = african american

I use both, black casually and african american when I want to display a sense to formality, since it's more accurate. I've never had a problem with using either or anyone else using either.

excuse me, neither is more accurate

black is not really accurate, since most negroids are brownish
very few american negroids come from africa, making the other extremely inaccurate

if i had to pick the most accurate
negro
negroid
colored

but those are not PC now are they

lord god help us if they realize that "person of african descent" is more accurate and a possible PC substitute
what a mouthful

Melchior wrote:
VinceDee wrote: crippled = physically handicapped

Just say handicapped, mostly the issue with these PC terms seem to be the length of syllables right? Everyone as far as I know just says handicapped.

Who the hell says crippled? Middle school punks who interject words like "gay" and "sweet" into their language are the only group of people I hear use a word like crippled.

oh but now handicapped and disabled are not proper, they are "other enabled"


i really think it is a useless endeavor
essentially it goes like this

society has a negative opinion of X group or people with X problem
somebody thinks that is unfair, demands a new term for X
society adapts to new term and ut takes on a negative connotation
somebody thinks that is unfair...................


it is an exercise in futility, call a stripper an exotic dancer and exotic dancer suddenly takes on the same negative connotation

why bother

[micfranklin]

Personally, I find nothing wrong with it. I mean I use the word "retarded" all the time but not directly referring to someone with Down's Syndrome or something. I use it to refer to insulting the government or to an idea that makes absolutely no sense or people saying things that make no sense.

The Grandmaster wrote: No, you are supposed to call them "consumers." How the f**k does that make sense? That word means something completely different already!

Consumers? Of what, that makes no sense. In fact, that's retarded right there :wink: