Political Crossfire Forums

[Moracca]

Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

[Tono]

Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Sure why not. Most of them worship some hippy-looking White dude.

Moracca wrote: Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'd have to go with "yes".

[Swampfox.f]

Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:


Yes.......

[Ameriman]

Yes....

[mr.snruB]

Absolutely not!

[The Grandmaster]

I would have to go with a very resounding "yes" on both accords. It doesn't even make sense otherwise.

[Centrist]

Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Absolutely. Keep in mind, though, that I'm an atheist, so my views on religion are pretty hands-off.

Quote: Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

Absolutely. In fact, that should be obligatory.

Quote: I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

[Richard Owl Mirror]

That would depend upon the precise and individual circumstances, NO?

Might have words for

might have a few words for

[Charlie Man]

Oh hecks yes.

Not that I'm a mind-reader, but just because I'm cynical like this and becasue playing devil's advocate is interesting... criticizing the actions of Jerry Falwell is just fine, but when you start to turn that into a right to make ad hominem attacks logic breaks down. If you don't like someone's actions, sure, criticize them. It's more vague, but criticizing someone's motivation is alright sometimes. But there is definitely a line you can cross, and it usually starts with shaky logic. Oh, and lies are generally frowned upon.

Jerry Falwell is against any sort of gay cohabitation because he's highly homophobic and scared of men (note the fallacy there: one doesn't necessarily mean the other) which is why I never listen to him.

[Moracca]

Alright, thanks everyone!

Now, when I as a falling away Muslim question Muslim leaders or the actions of individual Muslims I can still call myself a falling away Muslim all day long.

As an ethnic Arab I can question Arab government leaders and the actions of individual Arabs.

I have been challenged a few times on my religious beliefs and ethnicity because I have had harsh words for Muslims and Arabs. Just because I am a falling away Muslim and an Arab ethnically does not mean that I have to fall in line with the opinions and actions of those Muslims and Arabs who do what I think is wrong.

[Medius]

Yes, being Christian doesn't mean following someone who proclaims themselves a higher ranking Christian.

Yes, being American doesn't mean subserviance to the Government.

In fact, being a good Christian or American means that you must always question the purpose of those you allow to lead you as something much higher is at stake in both cases.

[Ameriman]

Moracca wrote: Alright, thanks everyone!

Now, when I as a falling away Muslim question Muslim leaders or the actions of individual Muslims I can still call myself a falling away Muslim all day long.

As an ethnic Arab I can question Arab government leaders and the actions of individual Arabs.

I have been challenged a few times on my religious beliefs and ethnicity because I have had harsh words for Muslims and Arabs. Just because I am a falling away Muslim and an Arab ethnically does not mean that I have to fall in line with the opinions and actions of those Muslims and Arabs who do what I think is wrong.

Don't you know? It's politically incorrect to question Islam in any way shape or form. It's the religion of peace after all.

[Timmytour]

Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

What´s extremely worrying is that you feel the need to even ask :shock:

That´s like saying... can you be a Christian and not recognise the Pope as your leader :shock:

That´s like saying can you argue in an election that you should be elected instead of the incumbent President :shock:

[mODULAR mAN]

Sure, but just because that person is questioning the actions of someone doesn't make them right.

Haggert may question the morals of a Satanist. But that doesn't make the Satanist immoral or Haggert moral.

Ask Martin Luther whether you should question the church. Or Spinoza, or the numerous people who were burned at the stake as heretics....

Of course, the dirty side of questioning is when it has a distinct agenda. Like if a politician asks in front of the cameras, "I wonder if my opponent has stopped beating his wife?" Or, questioning the patriotism of a politician just because he doesn't support some legislation or action. Then it is not questioning, it is an accusation that has, and is meant to have, deletorious effects.

[homerjay_s]

Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

I guess that depends on what exactly makes one a "Christian". I mean, I can go around calling myself a tree, and there's not a whole lot anyone could do to stop me, but it wouldn't really be true.

Do I think questioning Christian leadership is a decidedly unchristian thing to do? Perhaps, seeing as the whole Christianity thing is based on belief without proof.

Quote: Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I would say it is unAmerican NOT to question the actions of leadership.

Quote: I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

Why do I think these questions were aimed at getting a specific answer?

[Centrist]

Moracca wrote: Alright, thanks everyone!

Now, when I as a falling away Muslim question Muslim leaders or the actions of individual Muslims I can still call myself a falling away Muslim all day long.

As an ethnic Arab I can question Arab government leaders and the actions of individual Arabs.

I have been challenged a few times on my religious beliefs and ethnicity because I have had harsh words for Muslims and Arabs. Just because I am a falling away Muslim and an Arab ethnically does not mean that I have to fall in line with the opinions and actions of those Muslims and Arabs who do what I think is wrong.

I agree completely. There's something I want to add, but I'm afraid it'll come out wrong.

[Timmytour]

Moracca wrote: Alright, thanks everyone!

Now, when I as a falling away Muslim question Muslim leaders or the actions of individual Muslims I can still call myself a falling away Muslim all day long.

As an ethnic Arab I can question Arab government leaders and the actions of individual Arabs.

I have been challenged a few times on my religious beliefs and ethnicity because I have had harsh words for Muslims and Arabs. Just because I am a falling away Muslim and an Arab ethnically does not mean that I have to fall in line with the opinions and actions of those Muslims and Arabs who do what I think is wrong.

Whose rules are you being judged by? I believe once upon a time it was possible for a Pope to excommunicate someone for not believing the earth was flat.

Religion is a freedom of thought. Anything that poses as religion but does not subscribe to this is politics. Pure and simple.

[Centrist]

Timmytour wrote: Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

What´s extremely worrying is that you feel the need to even ask :shock:

That´s like saying... can you be a Christian and not recognise the Pope as your leader :shock:

That´s like saying can you argue in an election that you should be elected instead of the incumbent President :shock:

This comment isn't aimed at Moracca.....

You have to consider the source. All things considered, it's a fair question for someone in her position to ask.

[Timmytour]

Centrist wrote: Timmytour wrote: Moracca wrote: Okay, is it okay for Christians to question Christian leadership and the actions of other individual Christians and still be allowed to call themselves a Christian?

Is it okay for Americans to question the American leadership and the actions of other Americans and still be allowed to call themselves Americans?

I'll tell everyone why I asked these questions after I get a few answers. Its NOT an attack on anyone at all, so please don't think that I'm trying to bait you into anything.

Thanks everyone! :flwr:

What´s extremely worrying is that you feel the need to even ask :shock:

That´s like saying... can you be a Christian and not recognise the Pope as your leader :shock:

That´s like saying can you argue in an election that you should be elected instead of the incumbent President :shock:

This comment isn't aimed at Moracca.....

You have to consider the source. All things considered, it's a fair question for someone in her position to ask.

Not sure what you are getting at. I am aware of the circumstances, and my comments are not aimed at Moracca (apologies if the impression is the otherwise), but at the kind of world where people have to ask this sort of question.

The "kind of world" is what I take issue with, I wish it wasn´t so but am clued up enough to know that unfortunately in many cases it is.

[flamboyant]

Moracca wrote: Alright, thanks everyone!

Now, when I as a falling away Muslim question Muslim leaders or the actions of individual Muslims I can still call myself a falling away Muslim all day long.

As an ethnic Arab I can question Arab government leaders and the actions of individual Arabs.

I have been challenged a few times on my religious beliefs and ethnicity because I have had harsh words for Muslims and Arabs. Just because I am a falling away Muslim and an Arab ethnically does not mean that I have to fall in line with the opinions and actions of those Muslims and Arabs who do what I think is wrong.

Martin Luther had a few things he questioned about the ways of the Catholic Church (95 to be exact, I think) and while the division played out in an extremely contentious and bloody manner over the centuries, I don't think too many people today would argue that he wasn't a legitimate Christian.