Political Crossfire Forums

[indieinmich]

Swampfox.f wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: When a pilot drops a laser guided bomb and misses it was an accident. It wasnt his intention to kill civilians. When a foot soldier murders people with an M-4 it is itentional and he should be hanged.

Even when they know civilians are in the area? How about the video that was circulated of a bomb being dropped on a bunch of civilians in the street?

So if you accidentaly murder someone that makes it ok?

I dont think its ok.But i do think intent plays a big role in regards to this sort of war time crime.

[Trajan]

Swampfox.f wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: When a pilot drops a laser guided bomb and misses it was an accident. It wasnt his intention to kill civilians. When a foot soldier murders people with an M-4 it is itentional and he should be hanged.

Even when they know civilians are in the area? How about the video that was circulated of a bomb being dropped on a bunch of civilians in the street?

So if you accidentaly murder someone that makes it ok?

If it's an accident it isn't murder. It doesn't make it ok, but there is a difference.

[Black Sheep 5]

Swampfox.f wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: When a pilot drops a laser guided bomb and misses it was an accident. It wasnt his intention to kill civilians. When a foot soldier murders people with an M-4 it is itentional and he should be hanged.

Even when they know civilians are in the area? How about the video that was circulated of a bomb being dropped on a bunch of civilians in the street?

So if you accidentaly murder someone that makes it ok? The video that I assume you are referring to was a strike against known insurgents. Accidently Murdering is an oxymoron. Murdering is intentional killing.

[Alizard]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed.

[Heinz]

Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed.

Link?

[Black Sheep 5]

Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?

[Heinz]

Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?

Yes, and he was quick to judge these men as guilty even before any confession or investigation.

I thought this was the United States.

[Black Sheep 5]

Heinz wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?

Yes, and he was quick to judge these men as guilty even before any confession or investigation.

I thought this was the United States. There seems to be a lot of stereotyping going on. How can a person judge the character of over a million by the actions of so few?
I believe if they are truly into that type of broad judgement they should go off of awards. lets see 3461 have received the CMH, compare that to how many Americans have been convicted of war crimes and I think we have a winner. Every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine has gone above and beyond the call of duty and deserves recognition.

[Dookiestix]

Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?
No.

[Alizard]

Dookiestix wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?
No.

It was republican liars who made a broad generalization about Murtha.

[Black Sheep 5]

Alizard wrote: Dookiestix wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?
No.

It was republican liars who made a broad generalization about Murtha. Well I can't find any quotes from Congressman Murtha making a broad generalization, but I can't find any quotes from republicans saying he did either. I am now totally confused as to where the hell I heard he made a broad stereotype about marines.

[Alizard]

Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?

Please post a link.

The reason Murtha got attacked was because he made ACCURATE statements about murders committed by US servicemen and that was perceived by his critics as a traitorous act.

Murtha is clearly a charm school dropout and his idea of finesse is to use a smaller sledge hammer. He doesn't play well politically and he frequently provides a harsh sound byte or two that FOX can take out of context. IMHO, it's lucky he lost for the #2 job in the House because the GOP would have swiftboated him and used him as a diversion.

But he has not said anything false that I know of.

[Heinz]

Quote: The reason Murtha got attacked was because he made ACCURATE statements about murders committed by US servicemen and that was perceived by his critics as a traitorous act.

My main problem with what he said wasn't the actual words but more the context and situation. He said they were guilty before an investigatioon had even been started.

He took it upon himself to be judge, jury and executioner.

This is America, right?

Innocent until proven guilty?

[Alizard]

Black Sheep 5 wrote: Well I can't find any quotes from Congressman Murtha making a broad generalization, but I can't find any quotes from republicans saying he did either. I am now totally confused as to where the hell I heard he made a broad stereotype about marines.

Murtha made a statement about Marines murdering civilians. he was accurate.

Quote: By Kristin Roberts | August 3, 2006

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. Marine Corps briefed Rep. John Murtha on the Haditha case after the vocal war critic publicly said Marines had killed innocent civilians in that Iraqi city, the Corps said on Thursday.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/08/03/general_briefed_murtha_after_murder_comment_corp_says/



Here's the problem:

Quote: On May 17, for example, he said at a news conference, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."



The way he says it is inflammatory.

The other criticism is that he should not comment on a pending case. Maybe valid, but the problem is the admin had been hiding such cases and lying as standard course (Tilmann, Jessica Lynch, et al).... so that criticism can not be made since public disclosure was the only way to force them to do something.

[Black Sheep 5]

Alizard wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Well I can't find any quotes from Congressman Murtha making a broad generalization, but I can't find any quotes from republicans saying he did either. I am now totally confused as to where the hell I heard he made a broad stereotype about marines.

Murtha made a statement about Marines murdering civilians. he was accurate.

Quote: By Kristin Roberts | August 3, 2006

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. Marine Corps briefed Rep. John Murtha on the Haditha case after the vocal war critic publicly said Marines had killed innocent civilians in that Iraqi city, the Corps said on Thursday.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/08/03/general_briefed_murtha_after_murder_comment_corp_says/



Here's the problem:

Quote: On May 17, for example, he said at a news conference, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."



The way he says it is inflammatory. I guess that could be construed as a broad generalization. Not very concrete though.

[Dookiestix]

Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Dookiestix wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?
No.

It was republican liars who made a broad generalization about Murtha. Well I can't find any quotes from Congressman Murtha making a broad generalization, but I can't find any quotes from republicans saying he did either. I am now totally confused as to where the hell I heard he made a broad stereotype about marines.
Perhaps you should have done your research first before throwing that question out there.

This is what Fox News does every single day against their liberal/progressive critics. They constantly throw out crap in a question like format so that they don't sound like the complete propoganda GOP machine that they truly are.



Murtha is one of the staunchest supporters of the military in Congress, and he damn well knows that it's the current civilian leadership that is destroying our military by sending them into corporate wars understaffed and ill-prepared for keeping the peace during an occupation.

[Black Sheep 5]

Dookiestix wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Dookiestix wrote: Black Sheep 5 wrote: Alizard wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Does this mean Jack Murtha can expect an apology from all those calling him a traitor when he made this known to the public?

Never happen. BTW, that is not the worst incident. The eight Marines and one sailor who have been in solitary at pendleton are also guilty of murder. The sailor is the one whose conscience wouldn't stand the murder, and he has already confessed. But didnt Congressman Murtha make a broad steretype about Marines and Soldiers?
No.

It was republican liars who made a broad generalization about Murtha. Well I can't find any quotes from Congressman Murtha making a broad generalization, but I can't find any quotes from republicans saying he did either. I am now totally confused as to where the hell I heard he made a broad stereotype about marines.
Perhaps you should have done your research first before throwing that question out there.

This is what Fox News does every single day against their liberal/progressive critics. They constantly throw out crap in a question like format so that they don't sound like the complete propoganda GOP machine that they truly are.



Murtha is one of the staunchest supporters of the military in Congress, and he damn well knows that it's the current civilian leadership that is destroying our military by sending them into corporate wars understaffed and ill-prepared for keeping the peace during an occupation. Isnt that a pic of an editorial piece. Your World with Cavuto http://www.foxnews.com/yourworld/index.html

[Dookiestix]

All of Fox News is one big editorial opinion which leans far right.

Further examples:



Oh my god. Single women buying homes are ruining America. Heaven help us!

But this really cracks me up the most:



It just bothers me when people throw out these mindless questions in the hopes that something will stick, regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

I mean, come on. Single women buying homes are ruining America?

:roll:

[Lumina]

Swampfox.f wrote:
Interesting, but the question I posed is why single out certain members of the military force when mass murder is a common theme in wars?

Personaly if you single out these soldiers why doesn't Bush and his fellow PNAC'ers face the same charges for the hundred of thousands of killed innocent Iraqis?

Your question is disingenuous.

[Heinz]

What does this have to do with what Murtha said?

This is a seperate incident. It has nothing to do with what supposedly happened in Haditha.

So I guess Murtha is still wrong.