Political Crossfire Forums

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Take a Double-Blind-Faith test

Today while driving and listening to www.npr.org I heard a story about:
Author Sees No Evidence Prayer Can Heal
Fresh Air from WHYY, November 14, 2006 ·
In his new book, Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine, Richard Sloan
examines the claim that prayer and religion can heal the sick.
Using the scientific method, he shows that there is no compelling evidence that religion can actually cure medical ailments.


~@~
In a double-blind study, it should be taken into account the person who receives the placebo most likely places
a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Does Faith and/or Prayer truly have an effect on a patients medical condition?

Christianity seems to be unique in this belief of being 'medically verifiably' Healed through Faith and the Power of Prayer.

Woman Healed And Mountains Moved By Faith
Woman's Bleeding Healed By Faith
Paraplegic Healed
THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. KENT

Quote: Of all the ways our blessed Lord has given us for healing by faith, the following is the easiest.
It must be ministered by the elders of the church.
James gave us the instructions for this way of healing in the following Scriptures.

James 5:14-15
14 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 - And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins,
they shall be forgiven him. (KJV)


FAITH and HEALING ~ Part 1 of 3

Healing for the Rest of Us

Is it really true that if only you have Faith, enough Faith in Jesus that you could be healed of all host of ailments
that afflict us each day in some form or fashion?
That would indicate those who remain sick, or worsen,
possibly dying didn't have or practice Faith in the correct manner?

In the OP story, they spoke of studying people undergoing experimental drug therapy.
The term double-blind study has to do with the patient receiving either the drug being studied or a placebo.
The person who receives the placebo most likely places a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Could this type of Faith bring about a cure?
Positive thinking and hope that you are receiving the next miracle drug and be healed?
Now couple that Faith with their personal Religion's role in the healing process.

I hope you will take the time to listen to the audio story listed above.

Assuming that YOU are a Christian, do YOU believe in Healing through Faith and Prayer?
If YOU are a Christian and do not believe Faith-Healing works, WHY ?

If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?

[Wizard From Oz]

I dont think there is anything to startling in what they are suggesting. Faith, no matter where it is placed, is a powerful element in people healing from vrarious ailments.

Does God randomly choose deserving individuals for special attention. Who know? And for me. it make no difference to my faith one way or the other.

How to test it? I would say impossible, simply because the cause and effect would be to tenuious to meet any worthwhile scientific proceedure.

[eynon]

I do so love NPR......... :)

[Gilbert1908]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Take a Double-Blind-Faith test

Today while driving and listening to www.npr.org I heard a story about:
Author Sees No Evidence Prayer Can Heal
Fresh Air from WHYY, November 14, 2006 ·
In his new book, Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine, Richard Sloan
examines the claim that prayer and religion can heal the sick.
Using the scientific method, he shows that there is no compelling evidence that religion can actually cure medical ailments.


~@~
In a double-blind study, it should be taken into account the person who receives the placebo most likely places
a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Does Faith and/or Prayer truly have an effect on a patients medical condition?

Christianity seems to be unique in this belief of being 'medically verifiably' Healed through Faith and the Power of Prayer.

Woman Healed And Mountains Moved By Faith
Woman's Bleeding Healed By Faith
Paraplegic Healed
THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. KENT

Quote: Of all the ways our blessed Lord has given us for healing by faith, the following is the easiest.
It must be ministered by the elders of the church.
James gave us the instructions for this way of healing in the following Scriptures.

James 5:14-15
14 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 - And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins,
they shall be forgiven him. (KJV)


FAITH and HEALING ~ Part 1 of 3

Healing for the Rest of Us

Is it really true that if only you have Faith, enough Faith in Jesus that you could be healed of all host of ailments
that afflict us each day in some form or fashion?
That would indicate those who remain sick, or worsen,
possibly dying didn't have or practice Faith in the correct manner?

In the OP story, they spoke of studying people undergoing experimental drug therapy.
The term double-blind study has to do with the patient receiving either the drug being studied or a placebo.
The person who receives the placebo most likely places a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Could this type of Faith bring about a cure?
Positive thinking and hope that you are receiving the next miracle drug and be healed?
Now couple that Faith with their personal Religion's role in the healing process.

I hope you will take the time to listen to the audio story listed above.

Assuming that YOU are a Christian, do YOU believe in Healing through Faith and Prayer?
If YOU are a Christian and do not believe Faith-Healing works, WHY ?

If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?


1Corinthians
13:2. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Take a Double-Blind-Faith test

Today while driving and listening to www.npr.org I heard a story about:
Author Sees No Evidence Prayer Can Heal
Fresh Air from WHYY, November 14, 2006 ·
In his new book, Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine, Richard Sloan
examines the claim that prayer and religion can heal the sick.
Using the scientific method, he shows that there is no compelling evidence that religion can actually cure medical ailments.


~@~
In a double-blind study, it should be taken into account the person who receives the placebo most likely places
a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Does Faith and/or Prayer truly have an effect on a patients medical condition?

Christianity seems to be unique in this belief of being 'medically verifiably' Healed through Faith and the Power of Prayer.

Woman Healed And Mountains Moved By Faith
Woman's Bleeding Healed By Faith
Paraplegic Healed
THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. KENT

Quote: Of all the ways our blessed Lord has given us for healing by faith, the following is the easiest.
It must be ministered by the elders of the church.
James gave us the instructions for this way of healing in the following Scriptures.

James 5:14-15
14 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 - And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins,
they shall be forgiven him. (KJV)


FAITH and HEALING ~ Part 1 of 3

Healing for the Rest of Us

Is it really true that if only you have Faith, enough Faith in Jesus that you could be healed of all host of ailments
that afflict us each day in some form or fashion?
That would indicate those who remain sick, or worsen,
possibly dying didn't have or practice Faith in the correct manner?

In the OP story, they spoke of studying people undergoing experimental drug therapy.
The term double-blind study has to do with the patient receiving either the drug being studied or a placebo.
The person who receives the placebo most likely places a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Could this type of Faith bring about a cure?
Positive thinking and hope that you are receiving the next miracle drug and be healed?
Now couple that Faith with their personal Religion's role in the healing process.

I hope you will take the time to listen to the audio story listed above.

Assuming that YOU are a Christian, do YOU believe in Healing through Faith and Prayer?
If YOU are a Christian and do not believe Faith-Healing works, WHY ?

If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?


1Corinthians
13:2. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Healing for the Rest of Us

Are you saying that the amount of healing afforded is in direct proportion to the amount of charitable giving ?
I can have Faith and dutifully Pray in earnest yet,
unless I send more than a fist full of dollars through PayPal, God won't hear my plea?

[Gilbert1908]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Take a Double-Blind-Faith test

Today while driving and listening to www.npr.org I heard a story about:
Author Sees No Evidence Prayer Can Heal
Fresh Air from WHYY, November 14, 2006 ·
In his new book, Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine, Richard Sloan
examines the claim that prayer and religion can heal the sick.
Using the scientific method, he shows that there is no compelling evidence that religion can actually cure medical ailments.


~@~
In a double-blind study, it should be taken into account the person who receives the placebo most likely places
a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Does Faith and/or Prayer truly have an effect on a patients medical condition?

Christianity seems to be unique in this belief of being 'medically verifiably' Healed through Faith and the Power of Prayer.

Woman Healed And Mountains Moved By Faith
Woman's Bleeding Healed By Faith
Paraplegic Healed
THE MIRACLE HEALING TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. KENT

Quote: Of all the ways our blessed Lord has given us for healing by faith, the following is the easiest.
It must be ministered by the elders of the church.
James gave us the instructions for this way of healing in the following Scriptures.

James 5:14-15
14 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 - And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins,
they shall be forgiven him. (KJV)


FAITH and HEALING ~ Part 1 of 3

Healing for the Rest of Us

Is it really true that if only you have Faith, enough Faith in Jesus that you could be healed of all host of ailments
that afflict us each day in some form or fashion?
That would indicate those who remain sick, or worsen,
possibly dying didn't have or practice Faith in the correct manner?

In the OP story, they spoke of studying people undergoing experimental drug therapy.
The term double-blind study has to do with the patient receiving either the drug being studied or a placebo.
The person who receives the placebo most likely places a bit of blind-faith in that this trial drug may actually cure them.
Could this type of Faith bring about a cure?
Positive thinking and hope that you are receiving the next miracle drug and be healed?
Now couple that Faith with their personal Religion's role in the healing process.

I hope you will take the time to listen to the audio story listed above.

Assuming that YOU are a Christian, do YOU believe in Healing through Faith and Prayer?
If YOU are a Christian and do not believe Faith-Healing works, WHY ?

If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?


1Corinthians
13:2. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Healing for the Rest of Us

Are you saying that the amount of healing afforded is in direct proportion to the amount of charitable giving ?
I can have Faith and dutifully Pray in earnest yet,
unless I send more than a fist full of dollars through PayPal, God won't hear my plea?

No the opposite is true.

Charity is NOT about giving away money or donating to someone who claims to have an "inside" track to God's healing power.

"As a virtue, charity is that habit or power which disposes us to love God above all creatures for Himself, and to love ourselves and our neighbours for the sake of God. When this power or habit is directly infused into the soul by God, the virtue is supernatural; when it is acquired through repeated personal acts, it is natural." Catholic Encyclopedia

Charity is the manifested power of the love of God.

[greeneye]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote:
If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?

Well, first this study was based upon whether prayer was effective in curing patients. So there's the first problem. It may not be God's will for the patients to be cured or in the best interest of the patients from the perspective of the whole life and history of the person. Perhaps the surgery that they had to undergo provides an opportunity for unresolved issues that need to be resolved so as to bring about positive changes in their life and family.

I have found prayer to be very powerful and effective across many faiths. I even knew years ago an atheist who did not believe in God nor did he have much faith but encountered a situation of total desperation (of life and death) where he began to pray from his heart and ... it was answered. :) I don't believe he's an atheist any longer.

I don't think there's a magic formula of when prayer works or it doesn't... or doesn't seem to work from our point of view. That's why science doesn't like it -- can't produce the same result consistently... :roll: But I don't think that's how God's grace works. There's no magic forumla.

Personally, I have found that consistent and heartfelt prayer may not always produce the result 'we' wanted but often helps us produce or creates the consequences for a result that in the long run benefited us more than the result we initially asked for in our prayer. And that's part of the amazing mystery of God's power in our life.

[Vexillum]

Jesus healed to prove his authority to forgive sin, not because "God doesn't want you to be sick." Now that the church is fully established, there's no more purpose for healing.

Most modern faith healers I have heard of are blatantly frauds pushing satanic doctrines (especially Zionism).

[Richard Owl Mirror]

greeneye wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote:
If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?

Well, first this study was based upon whether prayer was effective in curing patients. So there's the first problem. It may not be God's will for the patients to be cured or in the best interest of the patients from the perspective of the whole life and history of the person. Perhaps the surgery that they had to undergo provides an opportunity for unresolved issues that need to be resolved so as to bring about positive changes in their life and family.

I have found prayer to be very powerful and effective across many faiths. I even knew years ago an atheist who did not believe in God nor did he have much faith but encountered a situation of total desperation (of life and death) where he began to pray from his heart and ... it was answered. :) I don't believe he's an atheist any longer.

I don't think there's a magic formula of when prayer works or it doesn't... or doesn't seem to work from our point of view. That's why science doesn't like it -- can't produce the same result consistently... :roll: But I don't think that's how God's grace works. There's no magic forumla.

Personally, I have found that consistent and heartfelt prayer may not always produce the result 'we' wanted but often helps us produce or creates the consequences for a result that in the long run benefited us more than the result we initially asked for in our prayer. And that's part of the amazing mystery of God's power in our life.

Then wouldn't an attitude of "What will be, will be" be a much better approach than fervent yet, unanswered prayers?

One aspect which wasn't mentioned yet, although does need mentioning is Exorcism.
Mental Illness, Epilepsy, etc... most likely were interpreted as being possessed of demons.
If Demon possession were real, wouldn't God desire each and every person afflicted be healed?
Somehow I can't wrap my head around how Democ possession would be
"part of the amazing mystery of God's power in our life".

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Vexillum wrote: Jesus healed to prove his authority to forgive sin, not because "God doesn't want you to be sick." Now that the church is fully established, there's no more purpose for healing.

Most modern faith healers I have heard of are blatantly frauds pushing satanic doctrines (especially Zionism).

Like these folks? Modern American Faith Healers

Copeland, Kenneth. Kenneth Copeland Ministries. www.kcm.org

Hagin, Kenneth. Kenneth Hagin. www.rhema.org

Hinn, Benny. Benny Hinn Ministries. www.bennyhinn.org

Roberts, Oral. Oral Roberts Ministries. www.orm.org

http://www.miraclelifeministries.org/

http://www.miracleshealingcenter.com/

http://www.godhealing.org/

http://geneeasleyministries.org/miraclehealing.htm

[mODULAR mAN]

These prayer study results are exactly what you'd expect if there was no god. That, or prayer doesn't matter. In fact, in some studies, the people prayed for got worse (by the numbers, but negligible).

They've done studies with people "laying hands" and the results were exactly what you'd expect: completely random. In fact, one woman, after given 10 tries to see if the person felt something got a 5 out of 10 yes's.

She said, "see! it could have been worse!"

Worse!? THat IS the worse! If someone said 10 times that they didn't feel something, then at least you'd have a negative corrolation. As it is a 50/50 is a completely random result.

Prayer is the same thing.

If nothing else, the most reliable cure is science. I bet most people would choose to go to a Doctor before they go to a Preist if they aren't feeling physically well.

[Richard Owl Mirror]

mODULAR mAN wrote: These prayer study results are exactly what you'd expect if there was no god. That, or prayer doesn't matter. In fact, in some studies, the people prayed for got worse (by the numbers, but negligible).

They've done studies with people "laying hands" and the results were exactly what you'd expect: completely random. In fact, one woman, after given 10 tries to see if the person felt something got a 5 out of 10 yes's.

She said, "see! it could have been worse!"

Worse!? THat IS the worse! If someone said 10 times that they didn't feel something, then at least you'd have a negative corrolation. As it is a 50/50 is a completely random result.

Prayer is the same thing.

If nothing else, the most reliable cure is science.
I bet most people would choose to go to a Doctor before they go to a Preist if they aren't feeling physically well.

What would you suggest for a guy like me who doesn't trust doctors (for very good reasons) ?

[the prophet]

Good topic here. I have witnessed 2 actual healings in my life. This is a true life testimony. Summer 2001 Two years after I was saved in 1999 I was driving past a parking lot in Whitehall Michigan. There was a tent set up there and something made me pull in to check it out. I parked and got out of my truck and walked over to the tent and peeked in. I saw a stage with some drums and stuff there and figured there some kind of show that evening. As I turn around to leave there was a little man walking towards me. He was a kind looking elderly gentleman about 50/60 years old. He walked up to me and we introduced ourselves. We chatted a bit about what was going on and he explained it was a an old fashioned tent revival. They were going to be singing gospel songs and worshiping God. He invited me to attend. I told him that I had other plans and would have to take a rain check. I was about to walk away when I felt a surge of heat hit my legs and I felt very much like I was going to faint. I looked back at him and saw his eyes for the first time and they were a deep blue almost like they went on for ever. He asked if I would pray with him right there and we held hands and he prayed over me. He told me several things that he could not possibly have known and touched my right leg and told me that it would no longer bother me then he did the same for a disc in my back. I was crying by then and I'm a big old guy who hunts and fishes kind of a big grump my wife says. I could hardly stand . He told me that I was saved but needed to stop condemning myself for my past and except gods forgiveness. I didn't know anything had happened until I got home and realized my leg which had calcium bone spurs from a badly broken bone 30 years prior to this day no longer hurt. I felt the area and the spurs were gone. I was in denial for a couple of weeks but gradually excepted the healing. I figured it happened for a couple of reasons one of which was the fact that I had been praying for a friend who needed my help. The other was to show me how God could work through a man. Several years went by and we have this Christian Rock band that My wife and I work in . I get a call from my good friend and guitar player and he tells me that an old rocker from our pasts has been healed and I need to talk to him. I'm like why me?? My Buddie tells me he wants to show me some songs and tell me about this awesome healing he had. So he comes to my house. I had not seen this man in 20 years and when I opened the door I was shocked. He was all bones thin and yellow in the skin but his eyes were that same deep blue. He tells me he has just got back from the University of Michigan hospital. He was there for 10 years fighting terminal pancreatic cancer. He said he heard an angel tell him to keep swinging and to get up and walk out of the place. Well that freaked out the staff at the U of M and they started running tests and found him in total remission. In fact they could not find any trace of the cancer at all. 24 hours before that they told him it was over and that he was going to die. When he told me this I was very nervous and did not know what to say so we went over his music. It seemed that God was pouring songs into him like living water. He was writing songs so fast he couldn't write them down and this was freak in me out. All of a sudden I felt my hands moving and they landed on his chest and I prayed over him and he started shaking and smelling like oil. He was sweating and sweating oil. His eyes were wide open and we both were in a bit of shock. Now I don't know what we did because he was already healed. One pastor told me that we had confirmed it or something like that. But now a year later he is back to work praise God, Back to over 200 lbs Praise God, And still blowing the minds of the best Medical personal at the University of Michigan hospital. My wife who is a registered nurse says its impossible with out some kind of miracle to recover from pancreatic cancer. Jeff Byron is living proof that God can and does heal people . I would gain nothing by fabricating this story and its easy enough to check. It is a documented miracle . The only one I have ever seen and been a small part of. Jeff is now a close friend and collaborator on several new Christian songs that we have written. Can God heal you bet, the Prophet

[eynon]

the prophet wrote: Good topic here. I have witnessed 2 actual healings in my life. This is a true life testimony. Summer 2001 Two years after I was saved in 1999 I was driving past a parking lot in Whitehall Michigan. There was a tent set up there and something made me pull in to check it out. I parked and got out of my truck and walked over to the tent and peeked in. I saw a stage with some drums and stuff there and figured there some kind of show that evening. As I turn around to leave there was a little man walking towards me. He was a kind looking elderly gentleman about 50/60 years old. He walked up to me and we introduced ourselves. We chatted a bit about what was going on and he explained it was a an old fashioned tent revival. They were going to be singing gospel songs and worshiping God. He invited me to attend. I told him that I had other plans and would have to take a rain check. I was about to walk away when I felt a surge of heat hit my legs and I felt very much like I was going to faint. I looked back at him and saw his eyes for the first time and they were a deep blue almost like they went on for ever. He asked if I would pray with him right there and we held hands and he prayed over me. He told me several things that he could not possibly have known and touched my right leg and told me that it would no longer bother me then he did the same for a disc in my back. I was crying by then and I'm a big old guy who hunts and fishes kind of a big grump my wife says. I could hardly stand . He told me that I was saved but needed to stop condemning myself for my past and except gods forgiveness. I didn't know anything had happened until I got home and realized my leg which had calcium bone spurs from a badly broken bone 30 years prior to this day no longer hurt. I felt the area and the spurs were gone. I was in denial for a couple of weeks but gradually excepted the healing. I figured it happened for a couple of reasons one of which was the fact that I had been praying for a friend who needed my help. The other was to show me how God could work through a man. Several years went by and we have this Christian Rock band that My wife and I work in . I get a call from my good friend and guitar player and he tells me that an old rocker from our pasts has been healed and I need to talk to him. I'm like why me?? My Buddie tells me he wants to show me some songs and tell me about this awesome healing he had. So he comes to my house. I had not seen this man in 20 years and when I opened the door I was shocked. He was all bones thin and yellow in the skin but his eyes were that same deep blue. He tells me he has just got back from the University of Michigan hospital. He was there for 10 years fighting terminal pancreatic cancer. He said he heard an angel tell him to keep swinging and to get up and walk out of the place. Well that freaked out the staff at the U of M and they started running tests and found him in total remission. In fact they could not find any trace of the cancer at all. 24 hours before that they told him it was over and that he was going to die. When he told me this I was very nervous and did not know what to say so we went over his music. It seemed that God was pouring songs into him like living water. He was writing songs so fast he couldn't write them down and this was freak in me out. All of a sudden I felt my hands moving and they landed on his chest and I prayed over him and he started shaking and smelling like oil. He was sweating and sweating oil. His eyes were wide open and we both were in a bit of shock. Now I don't know what we did because he was already healed. One pastor told me that we had confirmed it or something like that. But now a year later he is back to work praise God, Back to over 200 lbs Praise God, And still blowing the minds of the best Medical personal at the University of Michigan hospital. My wife who is a registered nurse says its impossible with out some kind of miracle to recover from pancreatic cancer. Jeff Byron is living proof that God can and does heal people . I would gain nothing by fabricating this story and its easy enough to check. It is a documented miracle . The only one I have ever seen and been a small part of. Jeff is now a close friend and collaborator on several new Christian songs that we have written. Can God heal you bet, the Prophet

for real? wow! thanks for sharing :)

[Richard Owl Mirror]

the prophet wrote: Good topic here. I have witnessed 2 actual healings in my life. This is a true life testimony. Summer 2001 Two years after I was saved in 1999 I was driving past a parking lot in Whitehall Michigan. There was a tent set up there and something made me pull in to check it out. I parked and got out of my truck and walked over to the tent and peeked in. I saw a stage with some drums and stuff there and figured there some kind of show that evening. As I turn around to leave there was a little man walking towards me. He was a kind looking elderly gentleman about 50/60 years old. He walked up to me and we introduced ourselves. We chatted a bit about what was going on and he explained it was a an old fashioned tent revival. They were going to be singing gospel songs and worshiping God. He invited me to attend. I told him that I had other plans and would have to take a rain check. I was about to walk away when I felt a surge of heat hit my legs and I felt very much like I was going to faint. I looked back at him and saw his eyes for the first time and they were a deep blue almost like they went on for ever. He asked if I would pray with him right there and we held hands and he prayed over me. He told me several things that he could not possibly have known and touched my right leg and told me that it would no longer bother me then he did the same for a disc in my back. I was crying by then and I'm a big old guy who hunts and fishes kind of a big grump my wife says. I could hardly stand . He told me that I was saved but needed to stop condemning myself for my past and except gods forgiveness. I didn't know anything had happened until I got home and realized my leg which had calcium bone spurs from a badly broken bone 30 years prior to this day no longer hurt. I felt the area and the spurs were gone. I was in denial for a couple of weeks but gradually excepted the healing. I figured it happened for a couple of reasons one of which was the fact that I had been praying for a friend who needed my help. The other was to show me how God could work through a man. Several years went by and we have this Christian Rock band that My wife and I work in . I get a call from my good friend and guitar player and he tells me that an old rocker from our pasts has been healed and I need to talk to him. I'm like why me?? My Buddie tells me he wants to show me some songs and tell me about this awesome healing he had. So he comes to my house. I had not seen this man in 20 years and when I opened the door I was shocked. He was all bones thin and yellow in the skin but his eyes were that same deep blue. He tells me he has just got back from the University of Michigan hospital. He was there for 10 years fighting terminal pancreatic cancer. He said he heard an angel tell him to keep swinging and to get up and walk out of the place. Well that freaked out the staff at the U of M and they started running tests and found him in total remission. In fact they could not find any trace of the cancer at all. 24 hours before that they told him it was over and that he was going to die. When he told me this I was very nervous and did not know what to say so we went over his music. It seemed that God was pouring songs into him like living water. He was writing songs so fast he couldn't write them down and this was freak in me out. All of a sudden I felt my hands moving and they landed on his chest and I prayed over him and he started shaking and smelling like oil. He was sweating and sweating oil. His eyes were wide open and we both were in a bit of shock. Now I don't know what we did because he was already healed. One pastor told me that we had confirmed it or something like that. But now a year later he is back to work praise God, Back to over 200 lbs Praise God, And still blowing the minds of the best Medical personal at the University of Michigan hospital. My wife who is a registered nurse says its impossible with out some kind of miracle to recover from pancreatic cancer. Jeff Byron is living proof that God can and does heal people . I would gain nothing by fabricating this story and its easy enough to check. It is a documented miracle . The only one I have ever seen and been a small part of. Jeff is now a close friend and collaborator on several new Christian songs that we have written. Can God heal you bet, the Prophet

Nothing can beat eyewitness testimony, thanks :hi:

[toddytodd]

Quote: Is it really true that if only you have Faith, enough Faith in Jesus that you could be healed of all host of ailments
that afflict us each day in some form or fashion?
That would indicate those who remain sick, or worsen,
possibly dying didn't have or practice Faith in the correct manner?

I have always wondered this myself.
For me to tell someone "You weren't healed because of a lack of faith" is beyond arrogance on my part. However, this would seem to be the train of thought in the matter, according to the biblical teachings.
There is also the reverse: people getting healed {seeming via miracle(s)} that have to faith or even acceptance of God/Christ.
So is it really faith in god (or God) that does this 'healing', simple 'positive thinking from each person, or plain coincidence?

Because of this, I don't prescribe that God heals the faithful because of their faith. If he heals anyone at all, it isn't because of faith {or lack of}, but simply because that is the 'plan' he has laid out.

[greeneye]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: greeneye wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote:
If you hold Faith in a different form of Religion, not being Christianity,
what does your Religion teach regarding this aspect of Faith ?

Well, first this study was based upon whether prayer was effective in curing patients. So there's the first problem. It may not be God's will for the patients to be cured or in the best interest of the patients from the perspective of the whole life and history of the person. Perhaps the surgery that they had to undergo provides an opportunity for unresolved issues that need to be resolved so as to bring about positive changes in their life and family.

I have found prayer to be very powerful and effective across many faiths. I even knew years ago an atheist who did not believe in God nor did he have much faith but encountered a situation of total desperation (of life and death) where he began to pray from his heart and ... it was answered. :) I don't believe he's an atheist any longer.

I don't think there's a magic formula of when prayer works or it doesn't... or doesn't seem to work from our point of view. That's why science doesn't like it -- can't produce the same result consistently... :roll: But I don't think that's how God's grace works. There's no magic forumla.

Personally, I have found that consistent and heartfelt prayer may not always produce the result 'we' wanted but often helps us produce or creates the consequences for a result that in the long run benefited us more than the result we initially asked for in our prayer. And that's part of the amazing mystery of God's power in our life.

Then wouldn't an attitude of "What will be, will be" be a much better approach than fervent yet, unanswered prayers?

The act of praying and asking God to intervene in our life allows God's laws to create the circumstances that would be best for us. I think heartfelt prayer is like gold (light) to God because it becomes an opportunity through man's free will to have God intervene in our life. Prayer opens the door. Whether God will walk through the door and intervene in our little world depends on other factors. But opening the door is the first important step that man can initiate.

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: One aspect which wasn't mentioned yet, although does need mentioning is Exorcism.
Mental Illness, Epilepsy, etc... most likely were interpreted as being possessed of demons.
If Demon possession were real, wouldn't God desire each and every person afflicted be healed?

It's not up to God to heal man's afflictions since we generally create the causes. Prayer invokes and allows, if God wills it, His intervention in our life. Demon possession is not a pleasant circumstance, and some churches do exorcisms for such situations.

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: Somehow I can't wrap my head around how Democ possession would be "part of the amazing mystery of God's power in our life".

There is good and evil on this planet. Demonic possession falls under the evil category.:? As horrific as it may seem, man can become vulnerable to such situations and thus become open to such possession. However, this has little to do with God's power in our life but may speak loudly of how little of God's power a person has allowed God to enter their life. If man leaves enough of a vacuum in his world .... something will always fill it ... though it may not always be pleasant ... sometimes it can be catestrophic.

A strong willed person embracing a moral path of goodness generally does not become suseptical to such situations. But just as Jesus was able to heal such conditions.... they can be healed today also.

[the prophet]

I am no expert by any means on this subject. As I have said I had a small healing for me and witnessed another. I cant really explain why these two events happened. I had a Pastor tell me I was supposed to go out and preach because of this but he always tells me that :lol: . I think maybe that when we reach out to others and pray on their behalf we might be rewarded in some way even healed or consoled. It is written that Men will dream and have visions. I'm not really a prophet but I have had a few visions and one was pretty graphic concerning abortion. I wont get into it here. Some of the Television evangelists have got to be the real thing and I'm sure others are not. I'm also sure that they all fail if they get off track. One important scripture concerning healing is when Christ says you will do greater things than I with the Holy spirit. He who is in you greater than he who is in the world. This is a hard one for many to believe. That we might be able to do greater miracles than Christ? After all it is (his) Holy spirit residing in us so it is Christ in us doing the miracle. If it were easy to call down the Holy spirit Preachers would just walk through hospitals and mental institutions and say get up put your clothes on and leave you are healed :-o :) . I'm sure every good Christian would love to do this I know I would :lol: :lol: So it remains a mystery to me exactly why God moves through men and women to heal us. He has a plan for everything and once in a while we connect with that plan and something amazing happens . I just love him back ,he's my father and my friend, teacher and King. The great I Am , MY GOD . the Prophet

[eynon]

the prophet wrote: I am no expert by any means on this subject. As I have said I had a small healing for me and witnessed another. I cant really explain why these two events happened. I had a Pastor tell me I was supposed to go out and preach because of this but he always tells me that :lol: . I think maybe that when we reach out to others and pray on their behalf we might be rewarded in some way even healed or consoled. It is written that Men will dream and have visions. I'm not really a prophet but I have had a few visions and one was pretty graphic concerning abortion. I wont get into it here. Some of the Television evangelists have got to be the real thing and I'm sure others are not. I'm also sure that they all fail if they get off track. One important scripture concerning healing is when Christ says you will do greater things than I with the Holy spirit. He who is in you greater than he who is in the world. This is a hard one for many to believe. That we might be able to do greater miracles than Christ? After all it is (his) Holy spirit residing in us so it is Christ in us doing the miracle. If it were easy to call down the Holy spirit Preachers would just walk through hospitals and mental institutions and say get up put your clothes on and leave you are healed :-o :) . I'm sure every good Christian would love to do this I know I would :lol: :lol: So it remains a mystery to me exactly why God moves through men and women to heal us. He has a plan for everything and once in a while we connect with that plan and something amazing happens . I just love him back ,he's my father and my friend, teacher and King. The great I Am , MY GOD . the Prophet

testify! :)


perhaps you do have the gift of prophacy.......we all have gifts of the spirit. :)

[LetsGetReal]

I have the gift of studliness...