Political Crossfire Forums

[mODULAR mAN]

1. "You can support the troops but not the president."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

2. "Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

3. "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

4. [The] President...is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

5. "American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

6. "If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." -Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

7. "I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

8. "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

9. "I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
---Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)




Some like to play the game of quoting and then not letting the reader know who said it, or attribute it to the opposite party. But I won't insult your intelligence.

These are all quotes from Republicans directed at Clinton. Needless to say, they were wrong, Clinton was right and that region is now peaceful and thriving. If you'll notice, the quotes are almost identical to the ones today. The difference was that after 9-11, the President used the fear and support of the American people to forge ahead into an ill-advised war. Ill-advised by his father, Powell, and generally every military leader. The only supporters were the Neo-Cons, and a brow-beaten Congress.


Now, keep this in mind, the Dem's NEVER called the Rep's unpatriotic. Then tried to further the insult by investigating Clinton's private life. we now see the difference between the character of the two parties. The Dem's are not investigating Bush and didn't use shame tactics to sway the voters.

[cap'n queasy]

Quote: that region is now peaceful and thriving.

No, it's not.

[Sucker Punch]

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: that region is now peaceful and thriving.

No, it's not.

Ah yes, the air tight, concrete retort to any debate point.


/golf clap

[CountryGuy]

Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

[Sucker Punch]

CountryGuy wrote: Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

I'm pretty sure he was pointing out hypocrisy in various forms - but I could be wrong.

[mODULAR mAN]

Sucker Punch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: that region is now peaceful and thriving.

No, it's not.

Ah yes, the air tight, concrete retort to any debate point.


/golf clap

Damn! He got me. I don't know what to say! I guess "peace" in the the Dayton Peace Accord must mean something else, and the rising GNP doesn't mean thriving....

[mODULAR mAN]

CountryGuy wrote: Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

Bosnia-Hercegovina.

My point is that if you look at the quotes, the people saying it were noticably absent in their criticism of Bush, and called the opposite side Unpatriotic for saying the same thing.

I thought I was clear when I first wrote the post. I'm sorry. My bad.

[mODULAR mAN]

Sucker Punch wrote: CountryGuy wrote: Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

I'm pretty sure he was pointing out hypocrisy in various forms - but I could be wrong.

You hit the nail on the head - with Mjolnir.

[Kilo Tango]

mODULAR mAN wrote: 1. "You can support the troops but not the president."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

2. "Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

3. "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

4. [The] President...is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

5. "American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

6. "If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." -Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

7. "I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

8. "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

9. "I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
---Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)




Some like to play the game of quoting and then not letting the reader know who said it, or attribute it to the opposite party. But I won't insult your intelligence.

These are all quotes from Republicans directed at Clinton. Needless to say, they were wrong, Clinton was right and that region is now peaceful and thriving. If you'll notice, the quotes are almost identical to the ones today. The difference was that after 9-11, the President used the fear and support of the American people to forge ahead into an ill-advised war. Ill-advised by his father, Powell, and generally every military leader. The only supporters were the Neo-Cons, and a brow-beaten Congress.


Now, keep this in mind, the Dem's NEVER called the Rep's unpatriotic. Then tried to further the insult by investigating Clinton's private life. we now see the difference between the character of the two parties. The Dem's are not investigating Bush and didn't use shame tactics to sway the voters. Links?

The dems aren't investigating anything because they have to wait a few months (they're calling their plans "oversight"). When did any Rep leader call a Dem unpatriotic as you imply? Clinton couldn't keep his personal life out of politics and he ran probably the most scandalous administration in history - that's why he was endlessly investigated.

[CountryGuy]

mODULAR mAN wrote: CountryGuy wrote: Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

Bosnia-Hercegovina.

My point is that if you look at the quotes, the people saying it were noticably absent in their criticism of Bush, and called the opposite side Unpatriotic for saying the same thing.

I thought I was clear when I first wrote the post. I'm sorry. My bad.

I thought you were referring to Bosnia, but I wanted to be sure. And you probably were being clear -- I haven't had my coffee yet :wink:

From my understanding, we still have troops in Bosnia, meaning that's no more a mission accomplished than Iraq. However, what Clinton did that was smarter was that after the initial work, US troops became a smaller portion of the overall force there, and things calmed down but only over time.

Also, its hard to compare Bosnia and Iraq. While both have significant Muslim populations, Bosnians wouldn't allow the suicide bombings of its civilians the way Iraqis seem to. And the reason I say they permit it -- The insurgents are living SOMEWHERE in Iraq, and in its cities. People know, but aren't doing a damn thing about it, and they are just as guilty as those strapping on a bomb.

[mODULAR mAN]

CountryGuy wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: CountryGuy wrote: Which region are you referring to?

And you also make the (incorrect) assumption that no one voted for / supported Clinton that was Republican.

Bosnia-Hercegovina.

My point is that if you look at the quotes, the people saying it were noticably absent in their criticism of Bush, and called the opposite side Unpatriotic for saying the same thing.

I thought I was clear when I first wrote the post. I'm sorry. My bad.

I thought you were referring to Bosnia, but I wanted to be sure. And you probably were being clear -- I haven't had my coffee yet :wink:

From my understanding, we still have troops in Bosnia, meaning that's no more a mission accomplished than Iraq. However, what Clinton did that was smarter was that after the initial work, US troops became a smaller portion of the overall force there, and things calmed down but only over time.

Also, its hard to compare Bosnia and Iraq. While both have significant Muslim populations, Bosnians wouldn't allow the suicide bombings of its civilians the way Iraqis seem to. And the reason I say they permit it -- The insurgents are living SOMEWHERE in Iraq, and in its cities. People know, but aren't doing a damn thing about it, and they are just as guilty as those strapping on a bomb.


Very few troops.
Quote: U.S. Troops Mark End Of Mission In Bosnia
Associated Press
Thursday, November 25, 2004; Page A19

TUZLA, Bosnia, Nov. 24 -- U.S. troops marked the end of their nine-year peacekeeping role in Bosnia on Wednesday as NATO prepared to hand over the task to the European Union in December.

A small number of U.S. troops will stay in Bosnia to hunt war crime suspects and help the country reform its military.



Since we are building the largest US base in Iraq (or trying to), I imagine some troops will stay on afterwards. I suspect that we leave a presence where ever we go. I think we still have troops in Germany, Japan, South Korea, Philliphines, Panama and Granada. (I might be wrong about Panama).

We DEFINATELY don't have them in North Korea.

Anyhow, you are right Clinton was smart (or, at least he was smart enough to listen to people who were smart (Wesley Clark, e.g.).

My point is that all this time (during the "No war for Monica" clamour), the Republicans were saying exactly what the Dem's said this time around. I just hope that the acrid talk from the Right will ease up, since they can see they've been just as bad, with much less results.

[CountryGuy]

Then couldn't the same be said of Democrats who were "stay the course" at the time with Clinton? Aren't they now the ones saying we need to leave?

Politicians are politicians no matter the stripe.

[Mr. Sunshine]

Clinton never won any conflict; Somalia, Bosnia, or Iraq. His only military success was when he bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade by mistake; yup, the A Team on foriegn policy. 8:)

[Fiduciary]

http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum71/57119.html

Winfield, is that you??

Or just another cut and paste ROBOT?

[Sucker Punch]

Fiduciary wrote: http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum71/57119.html

Winfield, is that you??

Or just another cut and paste ROBOT?

Because someone else - on some other forum had 3 of the same quotes - he's a robot? You have me confused.

[Heinz]

I guess the nearly 5000 dead Serbian civilians feel better since they know they died in peace.

Kosovo is a s**t hole.....always was, always will be. It's been almost ten years.

Quote: peaceful and thriving.

Thriving? They're thriving about as much as Iraq. Civilians are repeatedly attacked by snipers while walking down the streets. Gangs run the cities. Tanks role up and down the roads to remind them of the occupation.

This is European Iraq.

See past your party.............

[mODULAR mAN]

CountryGuy wrote: Then couldn't the same be said of Democrats who were "stay the course" at the time with Clinton? Aren't they now the ones saying we need to leave?

Politicians are politicians no matter the stripe.


Very well, let's remember that going forward, shall we? :wink:

(Of course, the obvious difference is that Clinton won that war, so it assumes they had a plan and knew what they were up against and what they were doing. Proof is in the pudding.)

[cap'n queasy]

Sucker Punch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: that region is now peaceful and thriving.

No, it's not.

Ah yes, the air tight, concrete retort to any debate point.


/golf clap

Take a look at this travel report and tell me you think this is a peaceful and thriving region now.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_938.html

[Sucker Punch]

cap'n queasy wrote: Sucker Punch wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: that region is now peaceful and thriving.

No, it's not.

Ah yes, the air tight, concrete retort to any debate point.


/golf clap

Take a look at this travel report and tell me you think this is a peaceful and thriving region now.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_938.html

I'm not disagreeing but merely pointing out that "No, it's not" isnt the most substantial of debate fodder.

[Dookiestix]

Kilo Tango wrote: mODULAR mAN wrote: 1. "You can support the troops but not the president."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

2. "Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

3. "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

4. [The] President...is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

5. "American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

6. "If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." -Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

7. "I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

8. "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

9. "I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
---Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)




Some like to play the game of quoting and then not letting the reader know who said it, or attribute it to the opposite party. But I won't insult your intelligence.

These are all quotes from Republicans directed at Clinton. Needless to say, they were wrong, Clinton was right and that region is now peaceful and thriving. If you'll notice, the quotes are almost identical to the ones today. The difference was that after 9-11, the President used the fear and support of the American people to forge ahead into an ill-advised war. Ill-advised by his father, Powell, and generally every military leader. The only supporters were the Neo-Cons, and a brow-beaten Congress.


Now, keep this in mind, the Dem's NEVER called the Rep's unpatriotic. Then tried to further the insult by investigating Clinton's private life. we now see the difference between the character of the two parties. The Dem's are not investigating Bush and didn't use shame tactics to sway the voters. Links?

The dems aren't investigating anything because they have to wait a few months (they're calling their plans "oversight"). When did any Rep leader call a Dem unpatriotic as you imply? Clinton couldn't keep his personal life out of politics and he ran probably the most scandalous administration in history - that's why he was endlessly investigated.
The most scandalous administration in history? Have you looked at the Bush administration lately? :roll:

Yes, that Clinton sure was scandalous. And all the GOP has to show for it is a stained blue dress.

My god...

:gdgf: