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F'losrix

I'd like to learn more about other people's experiences with changing faiths, especially if there's anyone else out there who once thought they were a 'born again' Christian but have since left the faith entirely.

Beyond that, if you've switched religions, as from Chistianity to Buddhism; or if you've merely changed sects, as from Roman Catholicism to Episcopalian, I'd be interested in hearing more about your reasons for doing so.

This doesn't need to be limited to discussing moves from or within Christianity. I just use that as my base example because it's my own frame of reference.

What I don't want this thread to become:

- "God exists!", "No he doesn't!". The only ones who win that argument are the Agnostics, since the existence/non-existence of God can't be definitively proved either way. You're welcome to disagree - but do it in a thread of your own making. Don't hijack mine.

- "My God can beat up your God!" If you want to do a comparative analysis of two religions, start your own thread. I'm not so interested in hearing a debate between posters about why their religion is superior to all others. I'm more interested in hearing why you left one faith for another. It's about the reasons people change faiths and what they're looking for.

- "My priest can beat up your elder!" If you want to do a comparative analysis of denominations within a faith, start your own thread. I want to know what caused you to leave one faith for another, which can be a subjective matter. I'm not interested in a debate between posters about the merits of one sect over another.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:30 am Post subject:

Current faith: non-sectarian religious independent

Former faith: ‘born again’ Christian (Methodist/Episcopalian/MCC)

I was raised Christian. My immediate family were Methodists, and my maternal grandparents Episcopalians. My paternal grandparents were Baptists. I accepted Christ as my savior early on, and transferred to my maternal grandparent's church as a teen. I left the Episcopal church for the Metropolitan Community Church in the early ‘90s, but didn’t stay long. I pretty much left behind organized Christianity in 1994 and gradually re-evaluated my beliefs, eventually choosing to disbelieve and becoming ‘unborn’ again.

Now, for those who are ready to jump all over me, saying I couldn’t have really been ‘born again’, was never a ‘true’ Christian, etc. – save your breath. I’ve heard & debated it all hundreds if not thousands of times already, and no one has ever succeeded in convincing me that I’m wrong about what I was, nor what I am now. If you feel you absolutely must address the idea of whether or not someone can cease to be ‘born again’, or what makes a truly ‘born again’ Christian, put it in another thread. Don’t hijack this one.

Why I left the Christian faith:

• It’s fairy-tale nature. Virgin birth? Raising bodies from the dead? Bread & Wine becoming the Body and Blood of the Savior? Spiritual Warfare? A personal relationship with the deity’s son who intercedes with God on your behalf? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of science fiction and fantasy literature. I’m just not convinced it’s a good thing to build one’s faith upon.

• The obsession with ‘sin’. As if it wasn’t enough for me to be constantly exhausted from worrying about my own wickedness, my fellow congregants decided it was their job to make pointing out my sins their personal crusade as well. My thoughts and words became so censored that I felt like a newspaper article with all the vital content snipped out. This obsession with sin seems to be growing, too – it’s very evident in the political efforts of certain churches and sects to punish sinners and control the lives of non-believers using the tool of law.

• The annihilation of self. Christians are fond of proclaiming God’s love for all of His creation – a love so great that He gave His own son to be a sacrifice in atonement of all sin. Everyone is alleged to be welcome. But you have to read the fine print. Being ‘born again’ doesn’t mean you just wage war against your sinful nature. No, you have to become a completely different person. If there’s one thing Christianity is good for, it’s guilting people, beating them down to the point that one loses any sense of identity. I decided I wanted a faith that helps me to be the best person I can be, not one that tries to turn me into someone else. For me, becoming that someone else meant I could have no thoughts of my own, save for those of guilt for my constant failures. Don’t get me wrong – I think most everyone can stand to be humbled now and then. But there’s a difference between humbling one’s self, versus feeling constantly humiliated by your faith. My experience of Christianity was unfortunately more of the latter. And there are far too many Christians who take the egotism of their former life and carry it forward into their Christian life, where it manifests as the most incredibly arrogant self-righteousness imaginable.

I could go on, but I think the above suffices for now.

My ‘new faith’ as a non-sectarian religious independent is more focused on finding balance and moderation. I retain many good lessons from my former Christian faith. But now my spiritual life is more about avoiding harm and discerning the truth. Avoiding the wrath of a jealous and vengeful God has moved pretty much to the bottom of the list.

mojo · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 5501 Location: Dreamland, NC

F'losrix wrote:

My ‘new faith’ as a non-sectarian religious independent is more focused on finding balance and moderation. I retain many good lessons from my former Christian faith. But now my spiritual life is more about avoiding harm and discerning the truth. Avoiding the wrath of a jealous and vengeful God has moved pretty much to the bottom of the list.

If you went to a Catholic church you wouldn't find much talk on fire and bimstone.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Why I left the Christian faith:

Come on, be truthful with yourself. None of those reasons you listed is why you left at all, is it?

Annihilation of the self?

Come on.

I'm not going to let you go that easy. Look into your heart. You know the truth.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15424 Location: Florida

mojo wrote: F'losrix wrote:

My ‘new faith’ as a non-sectarian religious independent is more focused on finding balance and moderation. I retain many good lessons from my former Christian faith. But now my spiritual life is more about avoiding harm and discerning the truth. Avoiding the wrath of a jealous and vengeful God has moved pretty much to the bottom of the list.

If you went to a Catholic church you wouldn't find much talk on fire and bimstone.

Yep.

On the subject of this thread:

I feel left out. I'm a cradle Catholic, wrestled with my faith for a while, and ended up......Catholic.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Why I left the Christian faith:

Come on, be truthful with yourself. None of those reasons you listed is why you left at all, is it?
My leaving was the culmination of a number of things, interacting with each other. I merely concentrated on the core issues in my post.

cap'n queasy wrote: Annihilation of the self?
Yes.

Quote: Come on.

I'm not going to let you go that easy. Look into your heart. You know the truth.
I know the truth. You don't, and can't - because you are not me. This is just one of the tactics I experienced commonly in my life as a Christian - the browbeating to brainwash me into taking ownership of something that isn't a part of me, isn't how I feel.

Besides which, this thread isn't about analyzing me. My purpose is to learn more about why other people leave or change faiths. Some people are perfectly happy being Christian. If it's working for them, great.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject:

mojo wrote: F'losrix wrote:

My ‘new faith’ as a non-sectarian religious independent is more focused on finding balance and moderation. I retain many good lessons from my former Christian faith. But now my spiritual life is more about avoiding harm and discerning the truth. Avoiding the wrath of a jealous and vengeful God has moved pretty much to the bottom of the list.

If you went to a Catholic church you wouldn't find much talk on fire and bimstone.
Well, the person nearest and dearest to my heart is an ex-Catholic. No sale.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: cap'n queasy wrote:
Annihilation of the self?
quote:
Yes.

I don't think you have found yourself yet. You seem to have built a persona predicated solely on homosexuality and are struggling with it.

I could be wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.

No offense meant, but just my honest opinion.

Anyway, I'm here for you if need someone to talk to, but I won't be bothering you anymore if if you don't.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:

cap'n queasy wrote: I don't think you have found yourself yet. You seem to have built a persona predicated solely on homosexuality and are struggling with it.
My 'persona' has been shaped by the totality of my life experience and whatever influence genetics/biology play in shaping personality. My orientation is but a part of the whole, not the totality.

If the 'freedom to bear arms' were my primary topic of discussion on this forum, would you presume that I had built a persona predicated on gun ownership? If abortion were my primary topic of discussion on this forum, would you presume that I had built a persona predicated solely on that?

Should I presume that you've built your persona predicated solely on your religious faith?

Many of us have our pet topics. It doesn't mean we eat, sleep and breath homosexuality, gun control, abortion or religion.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject:

Does anyone have something to contribute that is actually relevant to the topic of this thread?

So tired of any thread I create that touches on religion being turned into an attempt at character assassination.

feederband · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 4059 Location: Florida

I left religion because I relized I didn't really need it...

I mean it wasn't affecting my life to the good so why have it...

My life is much better since I became a born again human...

I'll never go back...

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

F'losrix wrote: Does anyone have something to contribute that is actually relevant to the topic of this thread?

So tired of any thread I create that touches on religion being turned into an attempt at character assassination.

I started to attend church around the age of nine. I found it quite interesting - it matched my personality quite well. Over the years I struggled with many many issues. Why did some people in the church think dancing was 'of the devil' while others didn't? How could some people think it was OK for guys to have longer hair, while others didn't? Why would it matter? Why is it OK to say "Ah cr*p!" while saying "Ah sh*t!" was cursing, which is bad and a sin? Where do you get the idea that s*it is a sinful word? How can your feelings be wrong and make you a sinner, when you don't truly understand your feelings at this young age? Why do I have to suffer through life because of two people thousands of years ago? How do we know christianity is 'the way' and not other religions? The list (still to this day) goes on and on and on.

As a teenager, there were many nights where I would cry myself to sleep praying for God to make me 'right'. I contemplated suicide (even made a minor, half-hearted attempt). When I asked the elders of my church for help, I received a couple attentive ears and support, but also received the attitude of "well only God knows, you are a sinner, if you don't repent and stick to God's was you will go to hell" typical attitudes. Many of my questions asked were looked down on with disdain and contempt.
Approximately three years ago, I decided to try life without the stipulations put on my life by my religious upbringing. While I still believe in God (only because I choose to, not because I have seen any proof), I have distanced myself from the rules and regulations of organized religion. I attend church rarely, as I see no need to go every week. I still pray and thank God for what I have and ask his protection of loved ones, but not to the extent that I use to since my relationship with him has changed.
That said, I am unsure what religion I am currently. I still consider myself a Christian, as I believe in God, the Trinity, etc., however, I don't subscribe to the 'inherited sin' that many churches like for us to believe in.
Perhaps, some day I will be able to proclaim what religion I am; perhaps not, as I don't think it necessary to do so.

So that is my story in a very brief synopsis.

Katsumoto · Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 1983 Location: Orygun

Very good topic of discussion by the way.

My Father is Agnostic, my Mother is a non-practicing Christian I guess (for lack of a better description). When I was very young I went through a period of born again Christian fundamentalism. My father sat me down and basically laid it all out for me (I was maybe 12, and can’t recall the specifics of the conversation, but it ended with me not liking the born again movement very much). I still considered myself a Christian, but did not participate in any organized form.

From there I became an Athiest (I was probably 14) I don’t think there was any real one point where I remembered the switch, I think I just became more and more dissolutioned and obsessed with the lack of definitive objective scientific proof of God. Since there was none, I refused to believe in a God. At it’s peak (16 or so) I was actually quite hateful of religions and Christianity in particular. I thought religious people were basically morons, who had no capacity for reason and could not think for themselves.

When I was 18 I encountered the Baha’i Faith through a very good friend. It basically blew my mind. It was the first time I encountered a religion where one of the central tenents was the harmony of science and religion. It seemed like everything made sense. I was hooked on religion again. My Faith lasted for several years, until it was finally undone by two incredible people.

The first is my wife. My faith almost tore us apart, simply because I was unwilling to accept that she would never believe. She also pointed out some glaring flaws in the faith that I could not help but recognize. The Second was the Philosopher, Ken Wilber, who’s book “A Brief History of Everything” pretty much put the final nail on the coffin. He made me realize that the form of the religion is less important than the purpose. And that purpose (the purpose of all religions) is to help us grow spiritually.

So now the “form” of my religion is a work in progress, but the goal is the same as always. Increase awareness—grow spirit. My practice is a mixture of Buddhism and Shintoism (primarily because I can share those practices with my wife).

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

toddytodd wrote: I started to attend church around the age of nine. I found it quite interesting - it matched my personality quite well. Over the years I struggled with many many issues. Why did some people in the church think dancing was 'of the devil' while others didn't? How could some people think it was OK for guys to have longer hair, while others didn't? Why would it matter? Why is it OK to say "Ah cr*p!" while saying "Ah sh*t!" was cursing, which is bad and a sin? Where do you get the idea that s*it is a sinful word? How can your feelings be wrong and make you a sinner, when you don't truly understand your feelings at this young age? Why do I have to suffer through life because of two people thousands of years ago? How do we know christianity is 'the way' and not other religions? The list (still to this day) goes on and on and on.
A case of religious belief raising more questions than it answers, coupled with the fact that the answers just don't make sense?

I was told repeatedly to just to believe that the 'answers' are right and that we don't need to know why they're right, not to question the articles of faith, and that indullging in an intellectual exploration of such questions was dangerous to my soul.

Quote: Approximately three years ago, I decided to try life without the stipulations put on my life by my religious upbringing. While I still believe in God (only because I choose to, not because I have seen any proof), I have distanced myself from the rules and regulations of organized religion. I attend church rarely, as I see no need to go every week. I still pray and thank God for what I have and ask his protection of loved ones, but not to the extent that I use to since my relationship with him has changed.
That said, I am unsure what religion I am currently. I still consider myself a Christian, as I believe in God, the Trinity, etc., however, I don't subscribe to the 'inherited sin' that many churches like for us to believe in.
Perhaps, some day I will be able to proclaim what religion I am; perhaps not, as I don't think it necessary to do so.

So that is my story in a very brief synopsis.
That sounds similar to where I was for a while. I tried to maintain my core Christian beliefs and identified as such even though I had dismissed many of the teachings that I just couldn't reconcile. I still retain many beliefs that are outgrowths of what I learned from Christianity, just not the ones that would continue to make me identify as Christian.

Good luck to you on your journey.

F'losrix · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

Katsumoto wrote: He made me realize that the form of the religion is less important than the purpose. And that purpose (the purpose of all religions) is to help us grow spiritually.
I would add that the great downfall of many religions (or perhaps I should say in the practice of many religions), is supplanting this purpose with a demand for blind adherence to a set of rules. Worse when those rules are proclaimed to be the absolutes by which morality is measured, with any infraction resulting in condemnation of the person. If those rules actually serve as a barrier to a person's spiritual growth, are they not contradictory to the purpose of religion?

Thanks for posting!

John Galt · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 21215 Location: Minnesota

Born Catholic, rasied Catholic, went to both public and Catholic grade schools and high schools (I moved often), went to a Catholic University which was run by a monastary where I took clasees on Chrisitan theology... became an agnostic.

My mother became "born again" after her father died. Recently I found out he was a sick pervert... perhaps that was part of it. Anyway, she went to the Calgary Baptist church. Brought me along a few times as punishment for things I did. I was forced to watch television shows "0disproving" evolution. The kids with me (I was a highschooler at the time and there were kids from age 5-18 there) all ate the crap up. That perhaps more than anything disgusted me with religion. I talked to some of the older people there and asked one if they had any proof that God made the world in seven days outside of the Bible. They said "It's all in this book!" "No, you have to use another source, you can't rely all on one source for anything." "It's all in this book!" Broken records, I just gave up.

After my father told my mother she was tearing the family apart by attending her church she stopped, since all good wives obey their husbands (he didn't want her to do it for that reason as it upset him but there is not much he could do). But it didn't matter, she was "saved". She knew she was. And I suppose that makes her happy.

My wife is Catholic and I was married in a Catholic ceremony. My wife gets mad at me since she says I know more about the Catholic faith than she does yet I don't believe. She's gone on pilgramages and things of that nature. When I met her, her faith was at a low and she professed agnosticism. Now she has moved back towards her faith but at least she does not insist I come with her to Church.

And so here I am. I read the Bible semi-regularly actually. I find it interesting, to say the least. It's a book that changed the world more than any other and it deserves study.

mODULAR mAN · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 852 Location: censored

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: cap'n queasy wrote:
Annihilation of the self?
quote:
Yes.

I don't think you have found yourself yet. You seem to have built a persona predicated solely on homosexuality and are struggling with it.

I could be wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.

No offense meant, but just my honest opinion.

Anyway, I'm here for you if need someone to talk to, but I won't be bothering you anymore if if you don't.

:roll:

Anyhow, I was a born again, bible-camper, "Jesus-is-my-Lord-and-Savior" Xian once. I used to think anything that wasn't Xian was Satanism and evil. And I mean ANYTHING.

I remember when I first picked up an atheist book at an outdoor book store. I actually broke into a cold sweat. I thought for sure I was going to Hell.
I used to grovel to God and pray for help and forgiveness. I suffered from depression throughout high-school and much of college, and was suicidal at times.

What helped?

1. Drugs: I went on anti-depressants and remember the day I noticed there was color in the world.
2. Philosophy: It made me realize life is complex and there are many theories, but no answer, and that is fine. The journey is the exciting part.

As I went off drugs, I also went off religion, and went off reading philosophy.

I am now effectively free of any one position, in any dogmatic sense except one. I am a rabid Humanist. I came to believe that whether you believe in God, or not, or have any other belief system, the common, ubiquitous thread is that Humanity must make the decision for change. That there are no answers "out there", they are all here with Humanity.

My conversion from Xianity was painful. I remember feeling abandoned and alone, but I soon realized it's like shedding your security blanket, you feel stronger for it.
It's like being a drug addict and everyone telling you "give up drugs, it's better on the other side", but you can't see it. Then when you do give them up, you realize the clarity of life.
Religion is like a drug. Ditch it and you will see reality clearer.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23651

John Galt wrote: And so here I am. I read the Bible semi-regularly actually. I find it interesting, to say the least. It's a book that changed the world more than any other and it deserves study.

You'll come around. :-D

greeneye · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject:

I never switched to a faith but I was born into a rather unique and multi- cultural family. One parent was catholic, one parent was Jewish, my favorite uncle who lived with us for years was a Tibetan Buddhist and my nanny was a Muslim. ... no joke... :)

So I was raised going to holy communion classes on some weekends, attending family Barmitzvahs on other weekends, and my favorite of all.... meditating on God during the week days. And then in the evenings my life was graced and pleasantly entertained by the sound of stories about the Arabian nights from my Muslim nanny. Thus, there was no shortage of cultural and religious diversity in my home. But there was only One God and He brought an amazing amount of fulfillment to my life as I grew up.

My parents, and uncle, though traditional followers of their respective faith, never forced me to choose one faith over another, but encouraged me to examine and study the religions they believed in and then decide which one I felt was right for me.

However, as I grew up, I found that there were great pearls of wisdom in all these faiths that were under the one roof of my home. My meditations and prayers to God led me to conclude that I did not have to choose one over the other. I recognized the same God in all these religions despite the fact that there were differences in the practice and on the surface of the written man-made scriptures. Though these religions do not teach the same message ...I discovered that at their core, the similarities are amazingly transcendent and rise above the confining dogma presented to the worldwide body of believers....and that resonated within my heart and soul like nothing I can describe ... to this day.

Then to make life really interesting, fate had me partner up with an atheist as soon as I left my multi-cultural and religiously diverse home setting. This person became one of my closest and dearest friends for several years. We use to have very lively debates... and I certainly did challenge his dogmatic belief that there was no God. He was bordering on deism when we parted ... :-D

The biggest problem I see with religion(s) today is the disingenuous codification of doctrine. The messengers and prophets that have graced the earth throughout the centuries had a very simple and clear message to help mankind deal with and rise above the human condition. Unfortunately, man has always managed to complicate this message.

But despite that, I regard life as a wonderous gift and opportunity ... to me life is all about rediscovery.

Corona · Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 155 Location: Sierra Vista, AZ

My damn computer froze so I'll try this again.

Previously- Christian (I was not a hardcore christian, and I often missed church, but I believed strongly in the ideals of Christianity)

Currently- Athiest

Reasons for changing:

-Reason. I accepted reason over faith. I won't detail my steps unless you ask me to do so.

-Sin. I hated how everything pleasurable was a sin. When I first rebounded I took up hedonism for a while, but I have since overcome it.

-Self-mutilation. I used to place the welfare of others above my own welfare. Now I do not, I hold myself as my first responsibility. Others can fend for themselves, I can fend for myself. I am not obligated to make ANY sacrifices to improve their welfare. They can improve their own lives, I can improve mine. However, I still will help others if the reason for their problems is injustice. I feel that every man has a duty to fight injustice, everywhere.