Political Crossfire Forums

[00timh]

No, I can't think of any time where I have been attracted to another guy. For me the more feminine a woman is the more I am typically attracted to them.

[F'losrix]

I'm gay. (Yeah, like anyone here doesn't know that already!)

Nothing more than fleeting opposite-sex attraction, as in "wow - she's gorgeous" or "would you look at the size of those things! How does she keep from falling over?" (My sincere apologies to well-endowed women everywhere, but Melchior did call for honesty, here.) I can't recall a time where it ever progressed to "boy, I'd really like to get her in the sack". I've never been smitten with a woman. Never had any burning desire to experiment with one.

That said, there have been a few rather masculine appearing lesbians that I've been disappointed to learn were female after initially thinking they were 'cute'. Meaning I saw the face and thought "hmm" and then noticed the breasts and thought "dang!".

I've had female friends who I loved dearly, but strictly on a platonic level. Can't even picture it being something more. It's not that I find women's bodies repulsive. From an aesthetic viewpoint, I find their anatomy interesting - but that doesn't translate to sexual attraction. I doubt that I'd have a 'performance' problem if I bedded a female, but my gut reaction to the idea is 'why bother?'.

[Melchior]

Protostar wrote: I'll admit the truth Melchior. I really don't know what you mean by smitten though.

To be charmed or enamored by, in the same way you normally would by the opposite sex.

Protostar wrote: Do you mean in love or just sexually attracted to? I've never been in love with anyone, so there goes the former. I've been sexually attracted to alot of females. I've been sexually attracted to a few guys as well, but never really said anything about it for fear of the response from them.

That's a cool response from you Proto.

It wasn't a definite or consistent thing, I'm assuming, it was passive. But you are capable of being interested in the same sex. No cataclysmic redefinition to your orientation necessary.

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: Why don't you expect people to admit the truth?

Because they never do, or at least, regardless of whether it's true or not I never get a yes answer to this question... unless the person who gave the answer definitely identifies as bisexual or bi-curious.

TheGirlNextDoor wrote: I'm a heterosexual woman and can admit that I've been attracted to the same sex before and have had some instances of experimentation. However, those moments passed without much impression and I'm attracted to men and therefore straight.

Is that a problem?

No, no problem at all. That normally wouldn't raise an eyebrow either, as I said earlier, but men can't make that same post you made without some homophobic reprecussions.

I think my point with this thread is a response to all the skepticism with bisexuality, and the notion that people are 100% one way or the other, all the time.

It's weird, with a man assumed straight, any inclination towards homosexuality = homosexual, and if said individual reverts back (in behavior) suddenly it's denial, or some people might say he's cured. You can't just do what you want and live your life without it being a big deal to people.

That's what I see anyway.

I'm talking too much though, right now I'm just curious of responses.

[00timh]

Just one point of observation....

I have on more than one occasion heard gay people say that all people have at least some bi-sexuality to them yet whenver a gay person claims to have not had any sexual attraction to the opposite sex they are never challenged on this and accepted as fact.

[F'losrix]

00timh wrote: Just one point of observation....

I have on more than one occasion heard gay people say that all people have at least some bi-sexuality to them yet whenver a gay person claims to have not had any sexual attraction to the opposite sex they are never challenged on this and accepted as fact.
There's a difference between initial subconscious attraction versus actively thinking about sexual relations. Just because I can't really picture myself relating to a woman sexually, that doesn't mean I wholly discount the possibility. Attraction at the subconscious level may occasionally cause me to initially take conscious notice of the presence of a beautiful woman, but it generally doesn't get beyond that. Most of the time they don't get my attention at all. In contrast, when a guy appears on the scene I'm a lot more likely to notice him and consciously evaluate his attractiveness.

So, I'm oriented on guys but a woman can occasionally show up on my radar. I don't find them displeasing to look at. Whether that should really be characterized as having some bisexuality or not is perhaps the question. I can't say there would never be a circumstance where I wouldn't do something with a woman, I just don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

Most people, plied with enough of a conscious altering substance (like alcohol), lose their inhibitions - including those that make them differentiate strongly between male/female as objects of sexual interest. It's less a question of whether or not a person has bisexual capability, more a question of what it takes to get them to shed their usual inhibitions surrounding same-sex (or in the case of a gay person, opposite-sex) activity.

I give you "The Killians Scale". It jokingly rates how many beers it takes before some straight guy will give in to being horny and direct that interest toward another guy as a matter of convenient proximity. I give you as well the "(expletive) was I drunk last night!" 'syndrome', used to explain away such a drunken encounter and deny any active same-sex interest after the fact. These are outgrowths of the real experiences of some gay men with straight men. I want to be clear here that I'm not advocating the use of drugs or alcohol as tools for sexual predation. Nor am I saying that such a thing is typical behavior for most gay men. Nor am I saying that most drunken encounters between gay men and straight men involve acts of purposeful predation. Gay men and straight men don't live in isolation from each other. Young men, gay & straight drink together, they get drunk, lose their inhibitions and sometimes end up doing things together of a sexual nature, thanks to a combination of youthful impulsiveness, possibly inexperience with the effects of drugs & alcohol, libido and curiousity.

I would say that the frequency of such encounters is probably exaggerated within the gay community, while being swept under the rug in straight society where homosexual contact remains taboo and stigmatizing. It nevertheless provides those of us honest enough to acknowledge such things insight into the bisexual capabilities of most people.

Let's consider as well the number of men identifying as gay who acknowledge having actually tried heterosexual sex, despite not really feeling any strong opposite-sex attraction. Performance of the act doesn't necessarily indicate that a person's everyday feelings include conscious bisexual thought. It only indicates the capability to perform.

Conclusions: Gay men who think that straight men are walking around actively repressing their sexual interest in other men need to have a rethink. Bisexuals who think that gay people and straight people are actively repressing a duality of sexual interest likewise need to have a rethink. If such repression takes place it's probably happening at the subconscious level. That isn't to say that thoughts indicating our underlying bisexual capability never enter our conscious thought processes, where they're actively dismissed. I just don't think it's a daily or regular occurance for most people.

I sincerely doubt that straight men are any more interested in other men than gay men are interested in women.

[00timh]

F'losrix wrote: 00timh wrote: Just one point of observation....

I have on more than one occasion heard gay people say that all people have at least some bi-sexuality to them yet whenver a gay person claims to have not had any sexual attraction to the opposite sex they are never challenged on this and accepted as fact.
There's a difference between initial subconscious attraction versus actively thinking about sexual relations. Just because I can't really picture myself relating to a woman sexually, that doesn't mean I wholly discount the possibility. Attraction at the subconscious level may occasionally cause me to initially take conscious notice of the presence of a beautiful woman, but it generally doesn't get beyond that. Most of the time they don't get my attention at all. In contrast, when a guy appears on the scene I'm a lot more likely to notice him and consciously evaluate his attractiveness.

So, I'm oriented on guys but a woman can occasionally show up on my radar. I don't find them displeasing to look at. Whether that should really be characterized as having some bisexuality or not is perhaps the question. I can't say there would never be a circumstance where I wouldn't do something with a woman, I just don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

Most people, plied with enough of a conscious altering substance (like alcohol), lose their inhibitions - including those that make them differentiate strongly between male/female as objects of sexual interest. It's less a question of whether or not a person has bisexual capability, more a question of what it takes to get them to shed their usual inhibitions surrounding same-sex (or in the case of a gay person, opposite-sex) activity.

I give you "The Killians Scale". It jokingly rates how many beers it takes before some straight guy will give in to being horny and direct that interest toward another guy as a matter of convenient proximity. I give you as well the "(expletive) was I drunk last night!" 'syndrome', used to explain away such a drunken encounter and deny any active same-sex interest after the fact. These are outgrowths of the real experiences of some gay men with straight men. I want to be clear here that I'm not advocating the use of drugs or alcohol as tools for sexual predation. Nor am I saying that such a thing is typical behavior for most gay men. Nor am I saying that most drunken encounters between gay men and straight men involve acts of purposeful predation. Gay men and straight men don't live in isolation from each other. Young men, gay & straight drink together, they get drunk, lose their inhibitions and sometimes end up doing things together of a sexual nature, thanks to a combination of youthful impulsiveness, possibly inexperience with the effects of drugs & alcohol, libido and curiousity.

I would say that the frequency of such encounters is probably exaggerated within the gay community, while being swept under the rug in straight society where homosexual contact remains taboo and stigmatizing. It nevertheless provides those of us honest enough to acknowledge such things insight into the bisexual capabilities of most people.

Let's consider as well the number of men identifying as gay who acknowledge having actually tried heterosexual sex, despite not really feeling any strong opposite-sex attraction. Performance of the act doesn't necessarily indicate that a person's everyday feelings include conscious bisexual thought. It only indicates the capability to perform.

Conclusions: Gay men who think that straight men are walking around actively repressing their sexual interest in other men need to have a rethink. Bisexuals who think that gay people and straight people are actively repressing a duality of sexual interest likewise need to have a rethink. If such repression takes place it's probably happening at the subconscious level. That isn't to say that thoughts indicating our underlying bisexual capability never enter our conscious thought processes, where they're actively dismissed. I just don't think it's a daily or regular occurance for most people.

I sincerely doubt that straight men are any more interested in other men than gay men are interested in women. I think I would agree to this... I wasn't necessarily refering this to you though but just the fact that if a gay or bi-sexual person hears a straight guy say he has never been attracted to another man they would feel either that they were lying or that it was due to this societal suppression. They would probably not challenge a gay person who has said the same in reverse.

One other thing, Being gay is still considered a taboo and has negative connotations specifically in small town communities, I would think most gay people's first or early sexual experiences were with the opposite sex, either due to denial or to prove to people they were not gay. Doing it and not enjoying it or not becoming aroused by it is not the same thing. IMO

[Babylon_Horuv]

Melchior wrote: This can turn into a bisexuality debate (something both heterosexists and gay rights enthusiasts have a problem with).

But I want to know from you, has there ever been an instance, at least once in your life, in which you found yourself genuinely smitten by someone of the same/opposite sex.?(some of the same-sex if you identify as heterosexual, and vice-versa).

I don't expect anyone to admit the truth. Heterosexuals don't want to compromise their status, and homosexuals don't want their orientation to appear the least bit non-permanent. But I can ask, and hopefully the anonymity of the Internet will encourage truthful responses.

I still don't believe anyone can be 100% one way or the other, it's unfathomable and inconsistent with every other predilection (from politics to favorite foods).

I'm het, but I have been sexually attracted to other men on occasion. Genuinely smitten no, but attracted to certainly. I also know that my godmother was a lesbian for decades, and is now married to a man. She was truly in love both with a couple different women and with her current husband.

[Babylon_Horuv]

00timh wrote: Just one point of observation....

I have on more than one occasion heard gay people say that all people have at least some bi-sexuality to them yet whenver a gay person claims to have not had any sexual attraction to the opposite sex they are never challenged on this and accepted as fact.

Nowadays i think it is mostly the Christian Conservatives who claim all people are Bisexual (IE sexual behavior is a choice)

[F'losrix]

Indeed, denial by homosexuals of opposite sex attraction may for some of them be a defensive posture directly aimed at heading off arguments that the existance of bisexual attraction equates to an ability to choose orientation.

[Melchior]

F'losrix wrote: Indeed, denial by homosexuals of opposite sex attraction may for some of them be a defensive posture directly aimed at heading off arguments that the existance of bisexual attraction equates to an ability to choose orientation.

Exactly, of course that's not what bisexuality is (I don't recall choosing anything), but this "defensive posture" can isolate bisexuals, pansexuals and create and overall biphobic atmosphere in a community that's supposed to be open-minded and supportive of alternative lifestyles.

[Melchior]

I love your posts Skeptical Mystic... or... F'losrix.

What the hell is a F'losrix?

[F'losrix]

Melchior wrote: F'losrix wrote: Indeed, denial by homosexuals of opposite sex attraction may for some of them be a defensive posture directly aimed at heading off arguments that the existance of bisexual attraction equates to an ability to choose orientation.

Exactly, of course that's not what bisexuality is (I don't recall choosing anything), but this "defensive posture" can isolate bisexuals, pansexuals and create and overall biphobic atmosphere in a community that's supposed to be open-minded and supportive of alternative lifestyles.
Agreed.

[F'losrix]

Melchior wrote: I love your posts Skeptical Mystic... or... F'losrix.

What the hell is a F'losrix?
Not a what, but a who. It's a corruption of the name of a character that served as my alter ego from a book I once tried to write. An incarnation of that character in this virtual world.

[Snake]

I've never had any sexual attraction to another man because I don't find men sexually apealing.

[Melchior]

F'losrix wrote: Melchior wrote: I love your posts Skeptical Mystic... or... F'losrix.

What the hell is a F'losrix?

Not a what, but a who. It's a corruption of the name of a character that served as my alter ego from a book I once tried to write. An incarnation of that character in this virtual world.

What was the book and who was this character?

[F'losrix]

Melchior wrote: F'losrix wrote: Melchior wrote: I love your posts Skeptical Mystic... or... F'losrix.

What the hell is a F'losrix?

Not a what, but a who. It's a corruption of the name of a character that served as my alter ego from a book I once tried to write. An incarnation of that character in this virtual world.

What was the book and who was this character?
It was intended to be a sort of Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel. Never got as far as developing a title for it. The basic premise is that this guy gets transported to another world against his will, and the book was meant to delve into how he copes with the difference between the new world versus his own, and his impact on that world. "F'losrix" is the one who finds him, while conducting an investigation related to a misappropriation of power, and eventually gets the assignment of trying to acclimate him to his new surroundings. Trying to explain more than that gets us deep into explaining how that world functions, plots and subplots that I'd rather not divulge.

[Melchior]

F'losrix wrote: Melchior wrote: F'losrix wrote: Melchior wrote: I love your posts Skeptical Mystic... or... F'losrix.

What the hell is a F'losrix?

Not a what, but a who. It's a corruption of the name of a character that served as my alter ego from a book I once tried to write. An incarnation of that character in this virtual world.

What was the book and who was this character?
It was intended to be a sort of Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel. Never got as far as developing a title for it. The basic premise is that this guy gets transported to another world against his will, and the book was meant to delve into how he copes with the difference between the new world versus his own, and his impact on that world. "F'losrix" is the one who finds him, while conducting an investigation related to a misappropriation of power, and eventually gets the assignment of trying to acclimate him to his new surroundings. Trying to explain more than that gets us deep into explaining how that world functions, plots and subplots that I'd rather not divulge.

As you wish, it sounds interesting.

I haven't read too much science fiction though, except for the Star Wars novels.

[Pareve]

Off topic, but science fiction is delicious.

[Tracker]

My suggestion is, stop the perverse CrotchWorship'g -- it's Churched-up.

We are attracted to what we are attracted to ... we love whom we love ... there are no books on it and there are no users' manuals, except those concocted by CrotchWorshipers in order to THRUST crotches into the public's faces and perversley sniff them like DOGS in their so-called 'positive-goodness,' merely to foment HATE and pit so-called 'beloved-neighbor' AGAINST BelovedNeighbor.

They can't SELL/PEDDLE their PRODUCT of a fictional life in an OFF-PLANET fictional undisclosed location if REAL LIFE is "HeavenlyPeaceOnEarth," so, they concoct nonstop HELL to PROFIT/PROPHETEER from atop the rubble, misery and GRIEF, in so-called 'positive-goodness.' These perverts do anything and say anything to sniff crotches like DOGS and turn around and have the AUDACITY to claim YOU are 'indecent.'

GROSS!

[toddytodd]

The Comrade wrote: i'm emotionally and physically attracted to females.


i would consider having sex with a guy, but it wouldn't go any further then that.


Comrade, your post caught my attention. I think it is a very honest response (which is good to see on here) and one which I would agree with in principle.


Something many of us fail to differentiate is the physical and the emotional attraction between people and what actually makes a person gay or straight. Does having sex with someone of a certain sex make you gay/straight, or is it more of a attraction/desire, coupled with sex, that makes one gay/straight?

I personally don't think there are many totally gay or totally straight people around - most run a spectrum of sexuality.